YNAB Price Change 2021

Hey all,

You’ll see an in-app message today with more information on the upcoming pricing change that will impact your next renewal. We know—especially for a YNABer—that every dollar counts, and we don’t take price changes lightly.

Questions or feedback about the change can be shared below. Please check out our FAQs for more details, or questions that may have already been addressed.

If you have questions about your account, you can reach out to our Support team from the app on web or mobile.

We hope and trust you’ll continue seeing the value of a YNAB subscription.


  • New topics or comments in other areas of the Support Forum will be directed to this thread.
  • We understand the impact that price changes can have. Please keep our Community Guidelines in mind.
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  • I've used YNAB since 2005 - (YNAB3 as was then)

     

    my budget "muscle memory" is well entrenched now, I only moved to the subscription service out of loyalty. I think I've messaged for support twice - all related to debt - I've never really had any in recent years and nYNAB was (in my eye's anyway) doing weird things to my budget. I can't justify this cost per year - here in the UK the connecting to banks service doesn't work, and most banks here now offer "pots" so I'll just do that - I'll be sad to go, but I'm sure YNAB will carry on and help others, but not for me.

     

    I'll be cancelling my subscription in February 22, when it's up for renewal - how do I download my data

    Like 2
      • Matt
      • Forest_Green_Transistor.13
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Orchid Python , just log on, go to the top left drop down in the app (where you open budget files), and choose “export budget”. It will give you two csv files. One with budget and another with a combined account ledger. I will begin doing that monthly until my current subscription expires to make sure I have my data since I don’t really trust YNAB anymore. 

      Like 2
    • Orchid Python as others have said, you can download your data. There's also a link to delete your account and request a refund for the remaining months, so if you have an alternative lined up you can start that now. The site will warm you that deleting your account will involve deleting your data, but as you've downloaded regretting that shouldn't be an issue. Just give the file a once over first.

      Like 1
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Cadet Blue Door many thanks - am just setting up pots in Monzo, have cancelled my subscription. once up and running I'll delete my account. I find it telling that despite being with YNAB for 16 years, rarely if ever posting here, but loads within 24 hours - they haven't even said "bye" 

       

      Loyalty doesn't pay anymore - screw them before they screw you seems to rule

      Like 3
    • Cadet Blue Door And be aware that the CVS/excel file will not import back into YNAB if you change your mind a year from now.

      Like 2
    • Move Light Sound Life Yep, very good point. Personally, losing that isn't really much of a hindrance, and that particular bridge is burned for me now anyway, but something for people to consider.

      Like 1
  • Stopped my auto renewal, trying to cancel my merch purchase, and moving over to Monarch once my yearly subscription ends in January 22. 

    Like 2
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Gironaso Monarch is a bit more like Personal Capital.  The budgeting seems ancillary.  Banktivity, Buckets, See Finance 2 and modified Tiller can get you closer to envelope-based budgeting.  YMMV.  I use Personal Capital separately for all my tracking accounts and long-term finances.

      Like
      • Gironaso
      • gironaso
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Saish Dawg I was looking at it, haven't really used it yet, but it looks very well polished. 

      https://www.monarchmoney.com/compare/ynab-alternative

      What do you think about the comparison? Have you used it before, do you mind sharing your view on it?

      Like
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Gironaso it's as expensive a monthly subscription as YNAB is trying to move too - out the frying pan into the fire - or is there a free/cheaper version I can't see!

      Like
      • Gironaso
      • gironaso
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Orchid Python Got a point there! At least they add more value by including some neat features. Ultimately, I need to find an alternative :(

      Like
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Gironaso I'm deeply saddened by all this - I've been using YNAB since 2005, it has become part of my daily routine - but I have reached "financial nirvana" or at least balance, so its just a logging exercise now - I'm not spending that amount of money for what I need, which is in effect no more than a suped up excel spreadsheet

      Like 2
      • Gironaso
      • gironaso
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Orchid Python I agree. I've only been a user since last year and it has helped me balance my budget and changed some bad financial habits. However, I am 2 payments away from finishing my debt and believe that it's mostly a logging habit. 
      I'm pretty sure I can go back to budgeting with an excel sheet, however, I wouldn't mind finding another software with more value than a spreadsheet. I will explore my options with Goodbudget and Monarch as I get closer to the end of my membership. 

      Like 2
      • Max
      • YNAB Class of 2007
      • Max
      • 2 mths ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      Orchid Python It was 2007 for me, but it is now time for me to leave.  It is clear that the company no longer values their customers the way they used to.  I was looking through some old emails where I had received support responses directly from Jesse.  I know that they grew, and that he could not longer be involved at that level, but it seems like they have failed to focus on how they started.  Until the last year or so, the growth didn't seem to interfere with their connection to their customers.  Sending out this price increase through a pop-up is plain insensitive and was really bad form.  This comes right after a push to start selling logo merchandise.  I'm sorry, but for me, the product no longer merits the price tag.

      Like 7
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Max I feel exactly the same, and I'm sure YNAB will carry on - but its just a logging exercise now for me - I'll just use "pots"  with my bank, which doesn't charge me anything and will work well for me. Pity because I'm sure there could be a "next step" for those that have reached "financial nirvana" through YNAB - I wish them well

      Like
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Max maybe they want rid of the "old wood" 🤷‍♂️

      Like 3
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Gironaso See you "Budget" is not even in the list of Monarch's advertised features at the top?  Instead it is "Financial Planning" (a much larger topic and normally more long-term).  However that section does talk about cash flow forecasting, which is still not really budgeting.

      Like
    • Orchid Python You wouldn't happen to have seen any of the Entwives, would you? ;)

      Like 1
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North i have no idea what or who they are I’m afraid

      Like
      • Primaniac
      • furious_falcon
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Orchid Python ROFL! It is a reference from Lord of the Rings, more so from the Tolkien world, with respect to your reference to 'old wood'. :D 

      Like
    • Orchid Python Sorry I took a risk and made a joke hoping you had the context. It's not funny if you don't know what in blazes I'm on about. You'd need to be a Lord of the Rings fan.

      Like 1
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Orchid Python I have been wondering if they are actually starting to lose money on the legacy accounts...  Maybe that is why they are doing it this way?

      Like
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Seabass Maybe they figure half of us will stay and half will go and in the end it's a zero-sum game.

      At this point, between legacy, international, new users, students, I don't know who is subsidizing whom anymore. 

      Like 2
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 2 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Annieland Maybe you are right.  And going forward they figure they will then actually gain as prices continue up.  This whole thing is so Jekyll and Hyde.  YNAB as a community with Unicorns and Rainbows, but then knives in the back.

      Like 3
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North the closest I've ever got to Lord of the Rings is I visited the South Island of NZ once 😂

      Like 1
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Seabass I've seen this many times with projects that start off as passions, with passionate people, they then "infect" others who are slightly less passionate, then as time progresses it gathers attention and it gets taken over and there's a mix of old stool and "users" - I wish YNAB well,  and hope it will help people as much as it helped me, but for what has turned into largely a logging expenditure exercise now, I cannot justify US$90 when my bank will provide roughly the same for free

      Like 3
    • Orchid Python Closer than me! I went to my local Canadian theatre. 🙂

      Like
  • I cannot believe you are jumping the price of the legacy subscribers from $45/year to $89.10/year. That is DOUBLING our yearly subscription. Bit of a slap-in-the-face to your long-time subscribers.

    Like 5
  • I could have accepted this if the price for those of us paying $45 annually went up to $60 or $65. That would be a little more palatable. They would still make a ton of $$ with a $20 price increase. This is just mind-boggling.

    YNAB make millions, there is no reason they can't give their long-time loyal users a break. Especially NOW, when literally EVERYTHING is going up.

    Also,  the announcement of the price hike coming in a pop-up on the browser is the equivalent of being fired by text.

    Like 18
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 2 mths ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      MyraJ The very minimum that could have made an increase more palatable for all you legacy folks, would have been a much smaller increase and an explanation or, better yet, a  justification as to why they could no longer honor their agreement.  My increase is just under 18% so I can just pout about it, but I hate when someone lies.  Does not matter if that someone is a person or an organization....trust is gone.  So when Jesse stares in the camera and says...we will never sell your data....can I really trust YNAB to keep his word?

      Like 6
      • MyraJ
      • Doyoureallyneedthat
      • 2 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Seabass I downloaded Buckets and I'm setting it up. Will be giving it a test drive before my YNAB subscription has to be renewed in February. (They must have had a thousand downloads today on Buckets. Here's what they put on their blog today: "There’s been a tremendous spike in interest with Buckets over the past few hours. I’ll reply to your emails and chats as soon as I can. A few things that might be helpful to newcomers:")

      Like 4
      • Stepan
      • stepan
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      MyraJ is it this one? https://www.budgetwithbuckets.com

      Like 1
      • MyraJ
      • Doyoureallyneedthat
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Stepan exactly. I set it up last night. It’s not as pretty as YNAB, but basically the same principle. 

      Like
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      MyraJ Yeah, that's another one that says Android app is coming "soon" so I like the looks of it, but not sure I'll jump on yet.  I've got until the end of March before I "Have to" decide.  Maybe they'll have android by then.

      Like
  • Perhaps enough folks have some True Expense headroom for a legal category ....

     

    https://www.natlawreview.com/article/injunction-conundrum-when-can-class-action-plaintiff-sue-injunctive-relief

    Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Saish Dawg I have a little.

      Like 1
    • Saish Dawg Based on that article, it doesn't look like a promising use of money.  From my understanding (I only skimmed), once you know about the false promise, you either choose to buy or not.  Legally, ynab is likely operating within the letter of the law (I'm not a lawyer; this is not legal advice).  Unfortunately (or fortunately, as the effect would be surface-level and not true), respecting people and fostering good relationships are not mandated by law.

      Like
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life More the concept than the specifics.  Seems like a broken promise is at least a possible cause for claims.   Would not affect me as a newer user.  

      Like 1
    • Saish Dawg Really, this hits the nail on the head.  There are two other things that I've been saving up to pay the lifetime price. 

      I don't understand how people can say I shouldn't believe these companies.  So many people say it's silly to have expected that $45/year was truly a lifetime price.  I guess I shouldn't trust these other organizations as well?

      Like 2
      • kmp
      • kmp
      • 2 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life I just got an email from a company that makes a product I tried, not finance related. They are about to change pricing and claimed that existing users will be locked in the old pricing for life. My first thought was "sure, but in five years will you change that story?". 

      Like 3
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 2 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      kmp Keep that email!!!

      Like 4
  • Its been fun YNAB, but as a legacy priced member in the UK you've lost me. I'll be moving onto Firefly III. Hope you realise you've messed up.

    Like 4
  • MyraJ said:
    Also,  the announcement of the price hike coming in a pop-up on the browser is the equivalent of being fired by text.

     100%  THIS!!!!!  No one at any level in the company  appears to be willing to stand here and take the customers anger and frustration and explain.  There may be a legitimate cost issue for them, but now no one will believe them.  Their excuse is....we haven't raised the prices since 2017...., but think about it, the price has double since 2016.  It basically works out to 12% increase per year.  Its kinda like housing prices in the SF Bay Area.  

    Like 15
    • Seabass I would like to imagine that behind closed doors there's a discussion happening about what they screwed up, how and why.

      Realistically they're probably just riding the wave for it all to calm down, and see how many people stick around after all.

      If there's enough people still paying the higher rate then I guess it doesn't really matter that they lose a few of us.

      Regardless of what happens to the company though, I think it speaks VOLUMES that they aren't engaging with people who have, I feel, rather legitimate concerns and anger.

      Todd hasn't come forward to explain this - I don't *expect* him to, but he's got to be aware of customer feelings about this, so why not say something? Or have something ready for the team to share which is a bit better than "we're raising our prices, nyah nyah"

      Ah well, lesson learned. Don't get attached to a company, because they don't give a hoot about you.

      Like 11
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 2 mths ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      Cadet Blue Door This is the perfect example of a small company that did not bring their strong ethical beginnings with them as they grew.  When I picked YNAB in 2014, it was because of that feeling that they truly wanted you to succeed (just buy the one time purchase and follow the rules) and the forum was so welcoming and helpful (many here still are 😄 ).  The positivity was strong and it was not just coming from "fellow YNABers", but from Jesse and crew.  It was a strong and hopeful product, one that allowed people to break free from financially dark places. Now, they don't care, it is just the bottom line and, unfortunately, those who came after the transition really don't know what it was like.  You are correct, Todd should be out front, it seems so cowardly (not being a jerk, just honestly how it appears from this side) not to be.

      Like 7
      • Stepan
      • stepan
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Seabass Completely agree here :( I have used YNAB since version 3.

      Like 1
    • Seabass You're *so* not the one being a jerk here.

      Like 1
  • I posted previously and it is good to see I am not the only one upset, I'm not surprised there has not been an official response, this has happened before, ignore it and it will go away. I have just been spending an hour or so doing a fresh start in YNAB 4, I did lose my history but I am willing to take that hit. That is working and the old app also works, not as good in some ways, but it worked for me before, so it will be fine. Annoyingly, I have matched the accounts and budget like for like, so it will feel the same, but I have a positive balance on the budget and yet everything else matches up, so that is frustrating, but I have created an error category and it can sit there.   My new yearly subscription is due in a couple of weeks, so I could have another 12 months at the agreed price that has suddenly changed, but on principal I will not renew, I wonder where it could end, another rise next year or the year after, I had my suspicions about subscriptions and it looks as though they have come true.

    Like 7
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      mealmond This is my concern as well.  When they do get the UK and EU direct import up and running, will they have to increase their rates again?  Or perhaps the cost of getting it up and running and to keep it running they needed more funds now. And as a person that does not link my accounts (and will never link them, personal choice) will I have to continue to pay premium for all those who do?  Due to my old iMAC, my YNAB4 is still working, I wonder if I should go back as well....

      Like 1
      • mealmond
      • mealmond
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Seabass I used direct import in Microsoft Money many years ago and decided I preferred to enter all my transactions manually to have more control and ownership over my budget, it really makes you think about every transaction, so it is a feature I would be paying a premuim for without using. It was funny seeing YNAB 4 again, like welcoming back an old friend. I think the main issue is trust, I always felt vulnerable to price increases, even with a promise of a fixed price for life, it's amazing how many people felt the same.

      Like 2
  • Rather unfortunate news. Even though I was on the 50 USD plan, I'm not as fussed by the extra cost per month (I'll have one less coffee), it's more the principal of the situation and how it was handled.

    In a positive light, this has motivated me to cancel my subscription and build an automated envelope budget in Google Sheets (currently working on file import from my Australian bank). I've got about 8 months to build something solid before my YNAB subscription expires (if anyone is keen to join in the build or have a look, let me know). 

    Like many others mentioned, for overseas users, a lot of the features implemented are not usable and so there is no value added for us. So I hope my Google Sheets venture will let me build a usable mortgage pay down function, add investment tracking and create a report dashboard that gives me the insights I need.

    I also wasn't aware that Jesse is no longer the CEO. Didn't see any news about this either. 

    Like 5
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 2 mths ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      cepelinas There is one that is available using Google Sheets... https://aspirebudget.com/

      Like 5
      • Cepelinas
      • Make sure to budget for Cepelinai
      • cepelinas
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Seabass Very nicely done. Super impressed by the Dashboard too. I wonder if there is some way to use Google Forms or make a mobile friendly sheet for manual transactions when out and about.

      Like
      • Stepan
      • stepan
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Seabass This looks very nicely done ! Looking at it one wonders what is so expensive to maintain YNAB operating model to require price hike.

      Like
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Seabass this is great - I managed to get out of debt with YNAB 3 and there was no app for that, so entering on a desktop will suit me - thanks for this

      Like
    • cepelinas I do think Aspire have a mobile app, maybe check their Reddit

      Like
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Spring Unicorn It's a Google Sheet.  So, yes, since Google has a mobile app, it will work there.  :^)

      Like
    • cepelinas info on the mobile apps is here https://aspirebudgetmobile.app/

      Like
  • I'm also a legacy user. I was a beta tester for nYNAB (the online version) from YNAB4, and first started using YNAB when it was a very confusing spreadsheet. I also distinctly remember a very short time period to choose "lifetime $45 pricing" and not a discount, to the point I also ignored the pricing increase a few years ago due to my lifetime pricing.  It may well be that official post-launch/Jan 2016 pages, announcements, etc., say "discount" it was very, very strongly marketed to us that if we switched, we'd pay $45 a year for life. Maybe it was just bad marketing back then, maybe now YNAB is using the loophole of "it was 10% discount, not price" ... either way, a whole lot of us long-time users who have adapted to changes and issues very clearly remember the price being lifetime. YNAB should be taking a long hard look at that - as someone else has said, we can't ALL be wrong in what we remember.

    YNAB with the original buffer and structure was a life changer to me. I use workarounds to implement that now, though it makes me unhappy to have to do so. I have tried referring friends because it does make a huge difference, and none have been willing to sign up at the previous pricing. At $15/month there's no way I'll even refer people anymore.

    And ultimately, I think that's the problem. With the changes over the years de-emphasizing the method that made most people love the system, new users don't understand some of the "rules" and reasons for the way things are done. Add in a pretty high price point, and it becomes a difficult sale. I suspect, though could be wrong - YNAB would have to release numbers about this - but I suspect that new users have not grown as hoped and therefore the pricing change is needed and the high percentage of legacy users was seen as a revenue stream that could literally double overnight. It may not be much in the grand scheme of things, but YNAB knows that most of us will be mad, then decide it's not worth the hassle to research new systems and move, and just pony up the extra $45 per year. Who knows what numbers we're talking about, but if it's 10,000 legacy users that stay, that's $450,000 additional revenue without having to spend a penny in sales and acquisition. 

    So... yeah, I'm disappointed. I briefly looked at a few others but ultimately realized it probably won't make sense to spend that time looking. YNAB knows a lot of people will be like me. I do think the software, for what features we have, is overpriced. 

    Like 15
      • AussieGal
      • Silver_Ink.2
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Tif_Ann until they spring another price rise, then another. Trust is now a big issue for many. 
       

      Like 2
  • Hope this ruins YNAB reputation and they fail!

    Like 3
  • At this point I'm seriously considering changing my budgeting methodology to save myself the annual price.  I'm not in the pants on fire mode getting out of debt anymore, when the very detail oriented approach YNAB takes made it a great ROI and helped me get out of debt and save up an emergency fund.  I will always be glad I used it for awhile, but with the increased price I just don't know that it's a good ROI for me anymore when I have some ideas for how to maintain my budget without YNAB that will be less work and cost $0 to implement.

    Like 5
    • PhysicsGal there are some really nice Excel/Google sheet implementations of YNAB on Reddit, worth checking out if you are thinking about going down that route and want to save yourself the work of setting it up from scratch yourself.

      Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Spring Unicorn the problem with spreadsheets is they don't scale well ultimately for open ended data sets.

      Like 1
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Buxfer seems the closest in functionality (envelope based) and even has a bit of Quicken in it.  

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Saish Dawg I took a look at it. The UI/UX seems to have been an afterthought designed by developers. It's clunky. Account reconciliation doesn't even look at account balances. It's as if they don't understand the prupose of reconciling accounts. it's just a way to hide transactions, so it's not actually reconciling anything. That's a non-starter for me.  And I was hoping that investment transactions would be connected to account balances like they are in MS Money or Quicken, but there is a disconnect.

      Like 1
      • 10SNE1
      • jagstyles
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I felt the same way about Buxter after reviewing it the past few days. Have you landed on anything as of yet in terms of what you'll use moving forward. I like several of the options for different reasons. Those that have great envelope budgeting mechanisms lack other features I'm hoping for and vice-versa. I'm been testing out Banktivity and like it but the Budget UI and functionality is wonky, not a fan of how they've implemented envelope budgeting.

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      10SNE1 my must-have feature list is pretty light, but interestingly I haven't found a single app yet that hits all of them....
       

      1. Envelope budgeting across accounts
      2. Real account reconciliation system that actually understands what reconciliation is for
      3. tracking accounts outside the budget
      4. Able to implement a clean, easy-to-use Income for Next Month workflow (even if it's a workaround like it is now)
      5. It is on a scalable platform (i.e. not a spreadsheet or large all-encompassing datafile for data storage)

      Bonus would be if it has an API so I can pull in data as needed for my personal finance spreadsheets

      Like 2
    • nolesrule If you find it, please let me know.

      Like 1
      • Primaniac
      • furious_falcon
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Just curious as to why Banktivity does not fit the bill based on what you are describing. I am not sure about #4, but I guess it does all the other things pretty similarly and #4 can be worked around like with YNAB. No?

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Primaniac re Banktivity "Designed exclusively for macOS/iOS". There isn't a single Apple product in my house.

      Yes, I'm okay with a workaround to INM like I am doing now as long as it's simple enough to manage.

      Like 2
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Yeah, I hit the reconciliation craziness this morning.  How is what they are offering even close to reconciling?  Though I personally like the UX.  Might have to switch to Tiller so I can just do whatever I want, or Aspire.

      Like
      • Primaniac
      • furious_falcon
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule ROFL! Completely ignored that main requirement and assumed everyone was an Apple user. My apologies. That was dumb! :)

      Like 1
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I just set up Monarch.  Strange, I thought it would be way more like Personal Capital, but it is definitely vanilla budgeting.  One thing, you mentioned a lack of reconciliation for Buxter.  I have a manual account setup (do not want to link) and cannot see any ability to reconcile in Monarch either.  I did put in a support request to see if this is forthcoming.  Did I miss something?  Right now, the only manual transaction friendly option I have seen with zero-based is Goodbudget.

      Like
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      @nolesrule Confirmed with their support (wow that was fast!) that reconciling is not even on their roadmap at Monarch.

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Saish Dawg Uh, oh. That's not good. Seems like a basic feature all accounts should have.

      Like 1
      • PhysicsGal
      • Nerdy female homo sapien
      • physicsgal
      • 2 mths ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Well, after throwing a bit of a tantrum and spending way too many hours trying to set up an alternative (I tried using Ally Buckets for my True Expenses and the free version of Every Dollar for my monthly expenses, tried Aspire budget spreadsheet, tried Moneydance), I realized I'm wasting my time and my time is money.  Although I did use YNAB3, I never used YNAB4 (too bad, I hear it was excellent and I'd probably just use it now cuz I'm a cheap bastard) I've only ever gotten the 10% discount on nYNAB, so the increase in price for me is actually only a $15 difference.  I blew many hours of my time trying to set up an alternative to save myself $15.  I feel stupid now.

      So, basically, YNAB has me by the ovaries, as they seem to be the best and biggest and are using that power to really screw over the longest most loyal customers by this sudden and drastic price increase.  I feel really bad for those who were paying $45 and are now seeing their price double.  I'm going to keep using it and bite this price increase, but I just hope this isn't a new trend in their treatment of their customers.

      I also hope my new credit card I'm getting sync's with YNAB so that I can at least use the syncing, since my Paypal credit card doesn't sync.  I can totally understand why people who had the $45 price are pissed right now, especially since they've been loyal customers for so long.  Especially the people in other countries who can't even use the bank syncing features.

      On the other hand, I hope that YNAB is using this increase to pay their employees more to cover the insane levels of inflation I'm seeing in my grocery and other spending.  I wish I could get a raise to cover the cost of inflation too.

      If anyone decides to code up a basic YNAB alternative that does file based import, I will download on github and donate to your cause.  I hate feeling like YNAB could just keep doing this every year without much notice and I don't really have an alternative at this point, at least that seems to be worth the effort of switching.  They aren't really a monopoly, but they might as well be, because they really do blow their competition out of the water. 

      Like 6
      • Beach Bum
      • Ex-Legacy YNAB'er, looking for new Budget Beach
      • Tan_Ink.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      PhysicsGal Thanks for your post … I’ve spent way to much time & effort trying to find something, really anything that would allow me to leave YNAB. That said, I’ve acknowledged to myself, that as of yet I’m not finding something that I like as much as YNAB. I will keep them for now and vigorously continue to hunt for something I can live with … and I will eventually leave them unless they somehow honor my Legacy status. They have abused my trust & loyalty… but I won’t hurt myself more by leaving to early … I’m confident a different company will recognize the opportunity to gain some loyal customers and will act accordingly .

      Like
    • PhysicsGal Why should you "hope" your new credit card syncs with YNAB?

      For more than a Microsoft Office 365 Family Subscription I'd "expect" a software vendor to work on any issues and I'd suggest you contact support if it doesn't

      Like
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Saish Dawg I was looking at Goodbudget, but it looks like there's no actual free trial of the full feature version.  You either can use 10 categories (less than 10% of what I'm using in YNAB now) or pay for the full version.  No actual way to test the full version.

      I may play with the free version and just a few categories to see how it works though.  Just kind of annoying.  Unless you know of a way to get a free trial that isn't obvious from the website.

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Bruce I didn't care for Goodbudget the last time I tried it. I felt trapped in a paycheck to paycheck budget. Maybe they've worked beyond that by now as it was 4 years ago.

      Like 1
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Bruce Deal-breaker over at Goodbudget was copy-pasting an amount with a comma resulted in an error.  I do that so frequently I would quit within a day.

      Like 1
    • Saish Dawg I wondered what the 'gotchas' were for Goodbudget... I was having as good a look as I could without trying and on the surface, it looked pretty much just like YNAB from a basic functions level.

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North unless things have changed in the four years since I last looked at it, they were very much a budget by paycheck interface. I hated it. While that's great for people who are paycheck to paycheck, it's terrible for those of us who have used a next month Income strategy and want to keep it.

      Like 1
    • nolesrule Thanks for the response. Yeah, in that case it wouldn't serve me well either. I'm well past the paycheque to paycheque life (can we get an hallelujah? 🙂)

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North That's the problem here. I have a very short list of must-have functionality, and I haven't found a single alternative that isn't missing at least one. Even YNAB4 fails when it comes to scalability due to the underlying data schema which is the reason I ultimately and reluctantly switched in Feb 2020. I have 17 years of transactions in MS Money and it doesn't have that problem.

      Like 1
    • nolesrule Yeah, I'm finding the same. I was a quicken user before I joined up with YNAB about a decade ago. It was too much and too confusing for where I was. It's hard to move from comfy old slippers to a new pair of boots you need to break in. But there's got to be SOMEthing that comes close enough to at least keep the financial house in order that doesn't make me feel like I'm being financially abused while I do it.

      Like
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North Yeah, that lack of comma input, as minor as it sounds, would eventually drive me away.  Out of all of them, the ones that seemed the closest to here were Mvelopes (which is still a contender for me) and Every Dollar (though it all looks geared to keep showing you the paid features I don't need). 

      Like
    • Saish Dawg Out of curiosity, why are you not on the "Actual" train like so many others here? It seems to be a clear frontrunner, but it's not in your radar. I wondered why...

      Like
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North I think it has the fundamentals and ticks a lot of my boxes.  Just that it is a bit raw and unpolished right now.  For example, moving money is a two-step operation instead of one.   The price at $4/month is great.  By the time my subscription is up for renewal, I am sure their web version will have incorporated a lot of feedback from YNAB users.  Will take another look then.  But certainly seems like a serviceable, albeit raw, option to consider. 

      Like 1
    • Saish Dawg Awesome. Thanks for those thoughts. All these are helping me decide where to go, which is a good thing.

      Like
      • Saish Dawg
      • saish_dawg
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North All helping each other out in these trying times.  Cheers and good luck!  Let me us know where you landed.

      Like 1
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view
      Pickle of the North said:
      Out of curiosity, why are you not on the "Actual" train like so many others here? It seems to be a clear frontrunner, but it's not in your radar. I wondered why...

       Pickle of the North I was just looking at that this morning, and tried a reconcile.  That part worked.  Then what I didn't like was it has no problem with me adjusting the transaction amount after the transaction was "reconciled" So I'm kinda shying away from that one...  

      Like
    • Bruce That's an interesting 'gotcha'. They actually have a development trello board. I'd point it out as a bug for them to fix. The great thing about teams like this is that they're really responsive and the influx they're gonna get out of YNAB driving people away will only energize them. Thanks for pointing it out!

      Like 1
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North good idea.  I did a search on their trello board and saw that somebody has already mentioned it (back in May) I voted for the card, and left a comment.  ... fingers crossed.

      Like 1
      • Vibrant
      • No more counting dollars, we'll be counting stars
      • vibrant
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Bruce what do you mean by "has no problem with"? That they allow you to change it at all, or that there's no warning attached, a la YNAB? 

      Like
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Vibrant Both.  Sorry, I wrote that a little vaguely.  I meant the software didn't care that I changed it.  It allowed it, and it didn't warn me.

      Like
      • ynaber2613
      • ynaber2613
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Sounds like YNAB 4, aren't you still using that.

      Edit: I'm referring to your earlier post of the requirements your looking for, not sure why my reply did not go underneath your post.

      Like
  • So I had 2 days to think about this. My feeling has NOT change. Feeling supper disappointed by YNAB as a company and I wonder how its employees feel. Maybe they have YNAB for free as per, and it does not touch them, but I would be seriously questioning company that is so much alienating its most loyal customer base. Possibly the most profitable, as we are the one's who do not need your support, your overhead. We were just happy with the product as it is, or as it was.

    I hope the management is thinking if they screw up. It seem the "legacy" users were overlooked in the change (indicating by the early correction of the FAQ). Don't know our user-base, but I think we are minority. It would be so easy for the company to remedy this without hurting them financially or reputation, goodwill wise.

    Like 6
  • There are several alternatives mentioned in this thread, I thought it might be good to organise them little better, so I created separate post to gather some of the inputs.

    Like 3
  • Time to reinstall YNAB 4 on my PC.

    Hello again, old friend....

    Like 2
  • I just opened a support case with YNAB with this text:

     

    I'm opening this case to provide feedback on the December 2021 price increase in the hope it will reach the right people. I've been a YNAB customer for ten years. I've found the tools and the YNAB philosophy very helpful. I was an early adopter of the SAAS version of YNAB. I'm a beta tester for the iOS app. Like many, I locked in the $45/year price with the understanding that as long as I keep the service, I kept that price. My understanding was that the 10% off was a lifetime discount regardless of whether I cancelled and rejoined and the $50/year ($45/year after the 10% discount) was locked in for life. Based on this tweet at least some others at YNAB had this understanding as well, or at least communicated it in a way that many of us understood it this way: https://twitter.com/ynab/status/724660144949219328. I'm aware of other tweets/reddit threads that refute this, but it is hard to discount the idea that based on YNAB communication that many of us thought the price was locked at $45/year. That said, you could have handled this price increase better for grandfathered users. Another company I buy products which sells internet based cameras made a promise that some features would be free for life, but then the cost to provide that feature became unsustainable. They explained it to us and provided a special price for those of us who bought the product for the service and apologized. I'm still a customer of that company.

    My point is, regardless of whether the $45/year locked price was true or a misunderstanding, the fault for the misunderstanding lies with YNAB. I think many of the grandfathered customers would stick with YNAB if an explanation was given and some sort of concession was made to ease into the price increase. A sudden doubling of price with little notice is causing many of us to look for alternatives. It's not a matter of if YNAB is worth the new price, it's about how the company treats its long time customers. Some potential ways you could help soften the blow:

    1) Allow grandfathered customers to renew one more year at the $45/$50 year price, knowing it will increase next time. It could be worded as a 50% one time discount for the transition.
    2) Give 6 months extension on current subscriptions for free for grandfathered users.
    3) Make the price increase incremental for the grandfathered users. 

    I'm sure there are other ways I'm not thinking of, but the main thing is show an effort at recovering from this botched PR and give a good explanation. You will retain many more of your oldest customers with such a goodwill effort. If YNAB does nothing but say you can pay the new price or cancel, then many like myself will reevaluate our use of YNAB and explore alternatives.

    Like 21
      • Stepan
      • stepan
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      kmp I support the feeling here.

      The actual monetary cost/implication might be insignificant for some of us, it is more about the premise, principles, communication.

      I don't believe for a single bit YNAB can't sustain and grow even if all subscribers would pay $50/year. The data they are hosting for each of us as user are small.

      The development cost should be now fixed with wage inflation. (as web/ios/android) are covered.

      The support/overhead cost per user should go down per existing user.

      So that leaves me worry about, how the company is being operated :( Are they looking at their costs and how to optimise, or are they just adding on and on (which is issue for many startups, and would be irony for finance focused app maker).

      What are the variable costs per user? Are the subscriptions growing? Would they grow faster if the subscription would be less expensive? Can you do tiering (pay per feature)? Etc etc so many question running through my head and it is not even my company (at least it shows you how supportive user of your app I felt in the past)

      Like 1
    • kmp Sounds great, but I think the *single* response from YNAB on this thread (and it's directions about how to cancel your subscription, FFS) speaks volumes. They are not going to change a thing about this gong show. Not one iota. I imagine it's one of two things: Someone did the math and it's somehow fine regardless of now many legacy users they lose in the short term, recovery is assured and so we and all our concerns are so much air in wind chimes. Or they're just prepping for some kind of change of hands in ownership and this is part of the prep work. Either way, they don't care at all what anyone has to say about this, however measured, logical, or valuable. It's done.

      Like 13
      • Stepan
      • stepan
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North 

      feels like it.

      Twitter yesterday reference one reddit post as excuse for the 'not promising $45' for legacy users. really? one reddit comment?

      Also all staff I would say is on board as due to their "Perks" page

      Perks
      
      We offer profit-share bonuses twice a year—if YNAB wins, everybody wins.
      Like 2
      • Beach Bum
      • Ex-Legacy YNAB'er, looking for new Budget Beach
      • Tan_Ink.9
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      kmp 

      Like
      • AussieGal
      • Silver_Ink.2
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      kmp  well said but unfortunately ynab do not care. Software companies are valued based on ARR (Annual Recurring Revenue), they clearly have crunched the numbers and want to dump the low payers. They seem to be confident they will attract new customers paying the higher rate, not sure how well they will do there. Time will tell.

      Like
    • AussieGal I hope that confidence wasn't based on word of mouth sales

      Like 2
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      beige_case_1939d61da8b9 yep, because they're going to be fighting an uphill battle from all the negative press we create by telling everyone who will listen. I've already apologized to my friends that I previously tried to recruit.

      Like 2
    • bevocat yup there's no corporate wannabe taking my reputation with theirs

      Like
  • The Cofounder of Monarch is giving away extended guest passes over at Reddit. I am attaching the link. Just make sure to DM him. 

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ynab/comments/qkvc7s/alternates_to_ynabheres_a_list/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

    Like 5
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Gironaso Thanks! Done.

      Like
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Gironaso I did this too - thank you! Unfortunately there seems to be no way currently to import historic transactions or to rollover unused budgets at the end of each month. For now, I think Moneywiz does a rather better job and with excellent reporting. Just my take.

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett Thanks. Just added MoneyWiz to my list to check out. So far on my list:

      • MOZE
      • Actual
      • Monarch
      • Buckets
      • Moneywiz
      Like
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Haven't looked at MoneyWiz yet, but a couple others on that list look good.  Also started looking at CountAbout, which on first glance has some potential.  The buckets one looks good, but currently no android app, so I'm not sure I'll move forward on that one.

      ETA: I guess MoneyWiz is out.  mac only.  At least the newest version.  They've got MoneyWiz 3 (which worked on both mac and pc, iOS and Android) but the MoneyWiz2021 only works on apple products.

      (crosses off list...)

      Like 1
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Bruce fair point re Mac only. Indeed, I would only recommend Moneywiz in the 2021 version for budgeting…..

      Like
      • 10SNE1
      • jagstyles
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett It's been a toss-up for me between MoneyWiz and Banktivity. Have you looked at both of these options in detail and any which way you're leaning? 

      Like
  • I am likely to get drowned in this thread, but I am still unsure about renewing in March, which is a shame as I really like YNAB features, but it is getting pricy. One thing that could be interesting is having a regional price tag?
    People are upset about $100 USD / year, but with the exchange, that comes up at $140-150 CAD... that is becoming overpriced compared to other options on the market (around $70 CAD/year).

    Like 6
    • Jonathan Cloutier As a fellow Canuck, I hear you. It's too much. It's more than Office365, and for that you get tons of software and a terabyte of online storage. For this you get to budget. These people are nuts.

      Like 4
    • Pickle of the North Microsoft 365 Personal for $69.99 a year really does put it into perspective. 1TB of cloud storage and arguably the most developed suite of office applications. YNAB will be 41% more expensive than that, for... budgeting? Without receipt attachments? Underdeveloped loan features not many even asked for (in comparison to other feature requests)? This price increase makes it one of, if not the most, expensive budgeting app ever.

      Like 5
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Salmon Mermaid My MS 365 renewal just came in today from eBay!  And it is in absolutely brand new perfect condition for $40.  The pic in the listing looked like it was run over by a truck.  Last year I picked one up because the box still said "Office" on it even though they don't call it that anymore.  

      So yeah, $40 (paid from PayPal where I had money laying around from Rakuten rebates) for another year of the apps which I'm currently using to migrate from YNAB.  Irony, much?

      Like
  • Good job YNAB, your subscription was already too expensive for my friends and family, the 50$ was my max as an old subscriber, but with this change I'm 100% leaving after my sub is expiring .

    Like 7
  • Well, after all these years, I have now cancelled my subscription and put in the details box as to the reasons why, I doubt if anybody will read it or be bothered. I could have had another year at the reduced price, or should I say, realistic price, but for some reason I feel really hurt with how the message was delivered let alone the massive price increase, in principal I cannot pay another penny to a company the has so little regard to long term loyal customers. I have looked at a few alternatives since this happened and being honest, my head is spinning with the choice, none really match everything I want. In the end, I have dug out YNAB 4, put all the account balances in, yes I lose the history but I can live with that, set the budget like for like with the paid YNAB, adding monthly amounts to the category title that I need to save and you know what, it's just what I need. Yes it is not as sleek, the mobile app is used only for recording a purchase and no more but it gives me what I need. So now I need to decide what category to add the  money to I was going to pay YNAB this month.  Good luck everyone in whatever you do, I doubt if all the people cancelling will make a difference, but sometimes you have to make a stand, thank you YNAB for the past few years and I am so sorry you seem to have lost sight of your core customer, times change I suppose, just hope you don't regret letting us go, because at some point you may just look back and think we could have handled things better.

    Like 16
      • polishrose
      • polishrose
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      mealmond I’ll be going back to YNAB4 too. I’ve never been able to use the direct import as I’m in the U.K. and I wasn’t particularly thrilled last week when the site wouldn’t load for me for 30 minutes. I’m not willing to pay the new price. 

      Like 1
      • mealmond
      • mealmond
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      polishrose UK based as well, it take a little time to get used to, but if there is nothing better, it will be fine. I'm also looking at Actual as well, mentioned on here, it does look good and has a decent app, so I'm doing the 30 day trial as well. That would be 4 dollars a month, just need to see if it would be worth it, can't do any harm.

      Like
      • Stepan
      • stepan
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      mealmond same here, from EU.

      the irony is that if I cancel now, I "loose" only 10% (which is laughable) if I would ever change mind

      Like
      • mealmond
      • mealmond
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Stepan exactly, so it should not really be an issue.

      Like
    • mealmond Thank you for mentioning Actual. It looks like a viable alternative.

      Like 1
      • mealmond
      • mealmond
      • 2 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Magenta Pilot It does look good and I think it will be improved even more. I know it means paying a fee again, but I just felt it is worth considering.

      Like 1
    • mealmond Definitely. He's already released a new version. Having played with Actual yesterday and today (desktop + app), I'm considering it. Either that, YNAB4 or a good  old spreadsheet.

      Like 1
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Magenta Pilot I might not understand how it works yet, so may have done something wrong, but I reconciled an account in Actual Budget, then change the payment amount and it didn't give me any warnings.  So that's kind of a red flag...  Unless I reconciled wrong, but I hit the button and did the math.

      Like
    • Bruce They have a Slack community. I'm sure that if you mention your issues there, you'll get an answer pretty quickly. Many suggestions have been thrown there too.

      Like
      • mealmond
      • mealmond
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Nope, but worth saying 😂

      Like 2
  • Just one more voice in the chorus here. I started with YNAB 4 in Jnuary 2015 and I still have the key but no longer have a copy of the file to reinstall it (and the link in the email is defunct), but I made the jump to the $45 plan in 2017 because I also thought it was $45 per year for life that I was signing up for.  I even remember chatting with someone at YNAB about it because I was so hesitant to make the move. 

    After losing my job of 21+years in June (I work in the long-term care industry and our company is trying to avoid bankruptcy at all costs and I more than understand the decisions they made that affected so many of us) I have finally found a job but it's $15k/yr less. I'm a 56 year old who wants to retire, but needs to work so her family can have medical coverage, and who is trying to build a nest-egg for myself and my husband, and I may not be able to find it in my heart to accept this price increase.  

    I have two aging parents, my husband requires too much medicine already (construction worker, his body started breaking down from the wear/tear about 10yr back) and I'm just trying to get him to 60 so he can quit.  I figure I'll be working until I'm 70 who knows. (maybe a budget category for lottery tickets is in my future)

    We're not spenders.  The only thing we owe is the mortgage.  Definitely a living below our means household.  I too will wind up heading to Excel or Sheets soon enough it sounds like.  

    I've been closing accounts and consolidating them over the past few years figuring if anything happens to me, he needs to just see it all in a clean and simple format because I'm the budgeter and he doesn't know what we have where.  

    I understand the need to charge more to pay for increasing costs.  But after 6 years with no raise, and the salary cut from the job switch,  and our expenses for medical going up each year, I'm just shaking my head no at this.

    Like 4
    • Charlotte6k Have you tried downloading YNAB4 from here (if you're still interested and since you have your key)? https://www.youneedabudget.com/ynab-classic-help/ MacOS takes a conversion script but it's easy enough (can link you to directions if needed).

      Like 1
      • mealmond
      • mealmond
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Charlotte6k If you Google YNAB 4 download, it comes up direct from YNAB, if you have the serial key, it will load straight up, I did the same for the phone app as well.

      Like
      • Stepan
      • stepan
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Charlotte6k the copy of email you shared reinforces the believe that the 45/50 cost is long run.

      YNAB you state value of app/education/and support. As long time user I can see the value in those for newcomers as well. But after a while it is just about the app.

      Like
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 2 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Stepan I think you all need to change your mindset.  This is an agreement (this is a business and as such are legally bound by their agreements) and this email reinforces this agreement of PRICE, not percentage. I did not grab this deal at the time but you all did.  The legacy users are the folks that really followed Jesse and were quite devoted to YNAB.  And, as such, I am sure most would have been willing to pay an increased price if it was properly explained and the increase was reasonable relative to the $45.

      Like 4
    • stephywephy Oh my gosh thank you so much!  I was trying the link in the email where my key is located.  I'll give it a go!  👍

      Like
  • Another legacy user here who remembers the deal being a $45 annual fee, for life.  Come on YNAB, live up to your promise.

    Like 10
  • PhysicsGal said:
    So, basically, YNAB has me by the ovaries, as they seem to be the best and biggest and are using that power to really screw over the longest most loyal customers by this sudden and drastic price increase.

     That is so true, and it's the drastic price increase that reminded me once again how captive I am, and I HATE that feeling.  It's why if I have anything in the cloud, it is also duplicated on a HD, and preferably backup drive (local AND cloud again) as well.  It's as close as I can get to having a "piece of paper in my hand" without actually being buried by banker's boxes.  

    I knew this would happen to me eventually, and now it's here and I'm facing it ovaries to the wall.  I cannot speak YET to the budgeting function of YNAB, but so far my migration of accounts is going absolutely swimmingly.  I started with the hardest and most bloated accounts and they're all reconciled and now linked up and all categories are accurate, even within splits.  

    I have 12 years of experience with Banktivity, just not the budgeting frontier, so if any Mac people want to converse give me a shout.

    Like 5
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Annieland  I have 2 years data set up in Banktivity 8 and with some tweaks have achieved a zero budget approach (I grouped my accounts by On Budget and by Tracking and then limited my budget to the on budget accounts/categories),

      There is no denying that it does everything I need (and a lot more). The reports are fabulous. There are some real oddities with target calculations for envelopes though….

      In short, I like Banktivity but for some reason I cannot put my finger on I have never been able to love it.

      Like 2
    • pgauntlett If you ever have the time and/or will to put together a step-by-step on how to achieve a zero-based budget in Banktivity, I'd read it with much appreciation. 😉 I have spent far too much of the past couple days looking at every alternative mentioned here and there's no clear frontrunner. I just want something that I know will work mostly like YNAB worked, without the feeling of being abused while I use it.

      Like 5
      • 10SNE1
      • jagstyles
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett I'm currently migrating to Banktivity as well, would love to get your feedback with how you handled allocating to envelopes at the start. I've noticed that when you first create the budget, you're given an opportunity to allocate all the available cash in your bank accounts towards those envelopes, but if you choose for some reason not to allocate all of the available cash, you're not able to easily see this afterwards on the budget screen to determine how much cash you still have available that can be allocated towards those envelopes. In fact, there's no way to allocate that available cash after you move past that initial budget setup. Once you're past that screen, the only thing you can do is move money from one envelope to another or allocate any new income coming in to those envelopes.

      Like 2
      • 10SNE1
      • jagstyles
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett I also forgot to ask you, for mortgages/loans, are you setting up the actual mortgage/loan details or using them simply as tracking accounts where you manually go in and make the balance adjustments as payments are made each month? 

      Like
    • Annieland looks like Banktivity is developed by only one person, or am I wrong? I would also appreciate it if you could give some insight on how to start up the envelope budget.

      Like
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 2 mths ago
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       I did my own workaround because I wanted to keep some Tracker only accounts outside of my budget. You can put Accounts into folder groupings and then the folder shows the total of those accounts. So I created an On Budget” accounts folder. In the Edit Budget area I then deselected all apart from these “On Budget” accounts. I was also careful to make sure that I had selected all my relevant income categories including Starting Balances . This generates a figure to allocate and use to fill my envelopes. 
       

      i think they are keen to appeal to both traditional and envelope budgeteers and it can therefore feel a bit clunky at first.

      Two tips:

      1) Watch the webinar on setting up sn envelope budgets (it’s on You Tube) but keep in mind that they are not coming at it from an ex  YNAB perspective.

      2) Duplicate your Banktivity file - call it say Test - and use this to play around a bit until you feel more confident. 

      Like 2
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      10SNE1 unfortunately I don’t have any experience  with loans or mortgages!

      Like
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 2 mths ago
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      • Reported - view

      Pickle of the North to be honest for that objective I would use www.actualbudget.com. No bank sync as yet though.

      I like Banktivity for (a) the reporting and (b) the investments value updates.

      I have replied elsewhere here with some thoughts on Banktivity envelopes. They can feel a bit clunky at first - they are in essence just an overlay over the apps traditional budget structure. 
       

      If you are happy to have all your Accounts  “OnBudget” the budget set up will walk you through. It is when wanting to  keep some  stuff off budget (tracking) that it needs a bit of tweaking. 

      Like 2
      • 10SNE1
      • jagstyles
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett That's great feedback. I think where I went wrong is on your comment "I was also careful to make sure that I had selected all my relevant income categories including starting balances". I didn't include starting balances as I hadn't categorized them as anything. I have since categorized these so hopefully that will resolve some of the issues I was having. 

      Like
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      10SNE1 please also see my other reply below.
       

      If I have not allocated all my money to envelopes I can still see the unallocated part (a) as remaining in one of the income envelopes and (b) as one number at the top of the budget page. Are you not seeing that? If you have allocated all your starting balances to expense envelopes then the total of these expense envelopes should equal you account balances.

      Like
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Spring Unicorn there is a reasonable sized team involved - and a long track record - see team details here: https://www.iggsoftware.com/about.php

      Like 2
    • pgauntlett Thank you for the reply. Yeah, I do keep some information 'off budget', but that's a relatively new development for me. Up until earlier this year I was still very much in YNAB4 mode, and I didn't use a lot of the new features, so I sat down over Easter and learned all the new hotness and I was having fun with it all... until this week. Meh.

      Like
      • 10SNE1
      • jagstyles
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett The starting balances were not showing on the Budget screen. Oddly, I had to disable envelope budgeting, go back and re-enter the starting balance transaction and make sure I categorized it as income and then when I enabled envelope budgeting again, it finally showed up as you described. A little wonky but glad it's working as designed. Hopefully I can get more comfortable with this as we move along. Thanks again for your help - very much appreciated!

      Like
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Oops edit : I meant budgeting function of Banktivity, duh.  My budgeting brain is fried right now

      Like
      • PhysicsGal
      • Nerdy female homo sapien
      • physicsgal
      • 2 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Annieland Oooh, Banktivity looks ok on a quick glance.  Do you think it's a good replacement?  I really don't want to spend more time on switching right now and I have until Jan until my renewal and I think I'm just going to kick the can for this year and stop recommending YNAB.  I just got my parents and two sisters  on YNAB!!!!  We long term,  loyal (previously, maybe not anymore ) YNABers are the customers who brought them this success through word of mouth. I do get that they really would eventually need to raise the price from $45 a year, but I wish they had done it gradually, given a lot more notice and done a better job explaining it to their most loyal customers. 
       

      It would be really  helpful right now if they would do some damage control, apologize for the abrupt and huge price increase for their most loyal long term customers, thank them for their support and how much they helped with growing the company to where it is now, and maybe explain what they are going to do with the extra money or somehow explain why they are doing it right now.  I mean, honestly, it makes sense that they couldn't keep that price forever, with inflation taking away the value of that price so quickly, especially recently, but they just handled this poorly and have pissed off their most fervent supporters needlessly.

      Like 2
    • pgauntlett thanks! I just managed to dig up my old Banktivity 7 key in my email archive, but my memory is that I gave up on it due to the envelope budget being a pain in the a** to set up. Will give it another try.

      Like
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett I had the same issue as 10SNE1 in that I saw an amount of cash to allocate and then it went poof once I moved through the start up.  I also saw your posts on Reddit, so thank you for helping us there too.

      But I'm not understanding the starting balance stuff.  I've used Banktivity for 12 years, and I just spent 2 and a half days making a beautiful brand new doc with all my (n)YNAB data properly categorized, plus incorporated all my other important investment/tax stuff from yore, minus the bloat of 23 years of history in the old doc.  So even if I have roughly 5 years worth of data in my "on budget" accounts in Banktivity, how do I suddenly give myself a "Starting Balance?"  The balances are just what I have now, a la YNAB.

      Like
      • 10SNE1
      • jagstyles
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Annieland Are you referring to starting balances in your account register or starting balance in each of the envelopes in your budget? The tricky part for me was that my starting balance in my on budget accounts were not showing up as available for distribution to the various budget envelopes. I had to essentially disable envelope budgeting first, then go back to my account registers and make sure I entered the starting balances in my on budget accounts with an income category. without the income category the balances won't show as available for distribution. Then I headed back to the Budget and re-enabled envelope budgeting. Only then did all those amounts appear as available to be distributed to any of the budget envelopes.

      Like
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      10SNE1 Before bed last night I started messing around with disabling and reenabling envelopes to see how it changes.  I'm going to need to do a lot of messing around, but that's cool with me.  The thing I was saying was I don't really HAVE starting balance transactions because I've been using the software forever.  I had to do a couple of reluctant balance adjustments in my main checking and savings accounts when I scratched over 15 years of history to bring it in line with YNAB, but the rest of my on budget accounts are pretty solid.  So I'm still trying to figure out how to register this starting balance thing.

      I will keep up with it because I have the advantage of using the app for so long that I'm used to at least 80% of the functionality (and quirks) that I don't feel like completely a fish out of water.  But learning this new budgeting tool will have a curve for sure.

      Like
  • So I spent time the last couple of days redownloading Quicken.  I had an active subscription but I had decided last year to stick with YNAB.  It wasn't that I didn't like Quicken so much that it was a pain to get it all set up with at least a year's historical data.

    When I look again at Quicken it really does do so much that YNAB doesn't do.  And, really, I don't need a zero based budgeting system.  I like it and will do some of the Quicken workarounds to get at close to it as I can but -- financially -- I don't need it.

    Leaving aside cost for a moment, I've mostly stayed with YNAB the last 5 years for 3 reasons:

    1.  I like the "look" of it.  Quicken's desktop version is very dated looking particularly in its register view.  But, the web version is better and you can't have everything.  This is mostly a "look" issue and not a function issue.

    2.  Historical data.  I have converted my data for about the last 9 years to nYNAB form.  I have multiple budget file.  I usually start a new one every few years.  But, fairly often I will go look something up from a few years ago.  Just this week I had to go look up something from 2018.  I don't like not having that historical data in Quicken.

    But - I can export my YNAB data and can find stuff if I want to.  It is a pain, but OKish.  

    3.  I have absolutely learned to love the cloud nature of nYNAB.  I am a little surprised by this.  I think it is fine that Quicken has a desktop version but I wish the web version was more full featured.

    Really the big one here is no. 2...the historical data.  But, I just can't justify staying with YNAB given what they have now done.  My account doesn't renew until March and I will wait until then to do anything but I can't see keeping it unless they roll this back.  (BTW, when I got Quicken I was originally going to run both it and YNAB and then didn't.  I wish I had....)

    Like 2
      • 10SNE1
      • jagstyles
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      katsmeow My issue with Quicken is that you risk corrupting the data file if you try accessing it from more than 1 computer. I use a MacBook for my office and iMac at home. I want to be able to open and use quicken on either machine with the same data file and not risk corrupting it. Also, the Mac version does not have any rollover budgeting which makes it hard to budget for annual expenses or other larger infrequent ones. 

      Like
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      10SNE1 katsmeow I'm fine with TurboTax, but Quicken hates Macs.  You think you're angry at YNAB now for its disloyalty, Mac users in the 90's and 00's had a crippled product for YEARS.  The last decent version was 2006 but it was still never as robust as the Windows version.  They kept promising and promising feature parity, and finally they admitted they had no plans but were working on a cloud thing.  The first new rollout was a disaster. Didn't even track investments!  You could see your spending trends with those little word bubbles in a cloud that get bigger or smaller (I forgot what that type of graphic is called).  I used it for 3 days and then went back to the old version and chugged along a little while longer.

      I think I spent a few years test driving Moneydance, See Finance, and iBank (now Banktivity) on and off and finally settled on the latter.  I know Quicken has updated their Mac products since 2010, but every time I take one of their free trials and give it a look, I'm outta there in a hot minute.  So, Quicken got me through my college years just fine, and I still own all my data from it in Banktivity (which will soon be part of my legacy document), but if you're a Mac user just be wary of Quicken (and I'm not going to even start on the whole Mint thing which coincided with the original official abandoning of the Mac desktop software).

      Funny, I was married to Quicken for 12 years, and left dejected with ire and found something better. Hmmmm....

      Like
      • 10SNE1
      • jagstyles
      • 2 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Annieland Funny, I've been looking at Quicken the past few days and even before the recently announced YNAB price hike and one thing I can't get over is that they do not have feature parity with the Windows version. In addition, it requires you jumping through hoops if you want to access the same Quicken Data file on two different computers. I like to access my personal finance software when I'm at the office on my Macbook and at home when on my iMac. I risk corrupting my Quicken data file if I access them from both computers - how is that even a thing in this day and age with cloud computing?!?!

      I'm liking Banktivity more each day but when I logged in this morning, I noticed my main bank's connection is not working. I was having the same issues with YNAB so it's not a total miss. I'm still wrapping my head around the budgeting module though, really requires some rethinking as it's not quite as obvious what one should do to properly manage their various envelopes, especially when you already have a starting balance to work with to fund some of those envelopes.

      Like
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