YNAB Price Change 2021

Hey all,

You’ll see an in-app message today with more information on the upcoming pricing change that will impact your next renewal. We know—especially for a YNABer—that every dollar counts, and we don’t take price changes lightly.

Questions or feedback about the change can be shared below. Please check out our FAQs for more details, or questions that may have already been addressed.

If you have questions about your account, you can reach out to our Support team from the app on web or mobile.

We hope and trust you’ll continue seeing the value of a YNAB subscription.


  • New topics or comments in other areas of the Support Forum will be directed to this thread.
  • We understand the impact that price changes can have. Please keep our Community Guidelines in mind.
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  • Pretty genius move by YNAB. They double the price and even if they lose half their customers (they won't) they still break even. Really disgusting treatment of long time customers. 100% price increase is completely unheard of. Jesse, I've been around since YNAB3, what happened to you? 

    Like 4
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 3 wk ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Gearbanger I truly think that's a big part of it, and I said it early on.

      I gave it some more thought last night.  It's like when a company lays off their older, experienced and more expensive employees in order to hire newer, younger, but cheaper employees.  They know the newbies will be good enough for a while and they save a ton of money up front.  If more than half of the legacy users stay, and I'm getting a vibe that they are via Reddit, they come out ahead and get a nice profit bump from the current users and even more from the new.  

      It's impossible for us to know the true financials, but I'm sure they have parsed them out well.  Heaven knows how many monthly subscribers there are who might not even notice the x3 price hike, at least for a while.  Money is going to be rolling and they know it.

      Basically, we're dead weight.

      Like 6
    • Annieland YNAB may make some cash in the short term from the folks who can want to stay/afford/don't care/don't notice...however their new-customer run rate may reduce along with an increase in cancellations once customers get to a certain point (good or bad).

      It's a short term play. And who knows, maybe they'll take the money, develop a whole host of new features and introduce a tiered subscription model. Issue is, they should've done this with more planning and introduced them before increasing the cost. 

      Like 1
  • Here is how I see it...YNAB is a company. They need to pay people and those people need to earn a decent wage. I can vote with my feet if I want. If I feel it's worth the price, I will pay. If I don't, I will go elsewhere. Right now, I still feel it's worth the price, so am staying. Simple economics. Credit cards still need some work however. :-)

    Like 2
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Brown Dog You are correct, it is a company, but it used to me so much more.  Being a company does not mean you have to be cold and uncaring.  Whether you are a person or a company you need to keep your word/agreement or if it is not possible, at least contact those affected explain and work them, if they are willing.  I am glad for you that you still find it is worth it.  For me, I am still dealing with the trust issue.

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 3 wk ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      Disagreed. It's not simple economics. YNAB used to be a company I respected and admired. That and my trust is gone. No more YNAB evangelizing for me. But you're right about the price to value evaluation. It's no longer worth it to me so I'm walking and putting my resources elsewhere. I can get so much more for less money.

      Like 8
      • Keetman
      • Spring_Green_Router.3
      • 3 wk ago
      • 9
      • Reported - view

      Brown Dog   They're indeed a company.  JUST a company. 

      I have been a member since 2008.  I loved this software.  I liked how it began and even though I didn't really need the support from members, I appreciated the community from the beginning.  It seemed different.

      They really weren't, that was just part of their marketing.  That's ok too.  I'm used to being let down by companies and having to move on.  YNAB is just another in a procession.  They're not special.  Even less so now because there are products out there that will do what they did.  

      I've already been loading my finances into "Actual" the last 4 days.  I'm loving their platform.  In fact they have a lot of features I missed from YNAB4.  It's a simple, zero based, envelope system that does exactly what I need for $4 a month.  The developer seems to be all in and ready to move with this wave.

      See, YNAB is just a company.  I'm just a customer.  We were never friends and they were never guaranteed my money.  

      I'm not happy, but I was looking for budgeting software in 2008 when I found YNAB.

      Like 9
    • Keetman my choice as well -- set up actual last week and it does what I need it to do - I dont care about manual entry since YNABs import has never worked reliably they are always aware of the problem and "working on it" so no big change for me

      Like
  • This is a massive price increase.  Makes me think of two scenarios.
    1) ynab believes their software should priced in line with other software, such as  Microsoft 365 family -- it shouldn't
    2) ynab is running low on cash and without this it'll go under.

    I will no longer be recommending ynab to others at this price point. I will also be looking for alternatives that are good enough. I'm disappointed at the either greedy or desperate direction this company has taken.

    Like 3
  • I thought about renewing the subscription for a few more days as I really like the software. But I will not accept a price doubling or a broken promise. For me that is no longer credible. Today I ended my subscription. Nevertheless: all the best for the future YNAB!

    Like 3
  • Raising the prices while still not supporting direct import is not acceptable. I already need to pay a lot more because of “sync for YNAB” to get the same functionality like US Customer.

    This is just to much. I’ll not renew my subscription! 

    Like 3
    • Green Violin (fb0473654878) 

      It’ll cost me now 162,99 USD (YNAB + sync for YNAB) per year for a budgeting software. This is to much.
       

      Why nobody at YNAB understand this? 
       

      ( I still get 10% discount because I’m with YNAB since the beginning. You lose now a loyal customer) 

      Like 2
  • As it stands I have been looking at other options and software but I'm not comfy with anything I've seen yet. My membership ends in September so I'll wait and see if anything catches my fancy by then. If so I'll say goodbye and if not, I'll bite the bullet....I'm so tired of looking and trying...just not worth my time....I'd rather watch TV...LOL....Meantime, I am budgeting for the extra money...just in case

    Like 2
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      DosBoss57 It is a pain to check out so many.  Just KNOW that none will be just like YNAB.  When Every Dollar increased their prices, I had two friends that decided to try YNAB.  They both hated it (I tried)! One eventually moved over to the Free version of Every Dollar (she is happy actually) and the other stopped budgeting cause she didn't want to do all that manual work but she didn't want to pay all that money.  Once a person is comfortable with whatever they learn to use (apps or anything in life) they tend not to be able to open their minds to something different.  And for companies providing services/products, that is what they depend on.  

      Like 1
    • DosBoss57 actual budget is very similar to ynab4 thats going to be my new program 

      Like 2
  • Is it just me or did the view count for this topic suddenly get slashed? So glad I'm getting away from this company.

    Like 3
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Hot Pink Guitar Not your imagination.  The numbers were most likely attracting increased traffic.

      Like 1
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Hot Pink Guitar Actually, I just looked at it this morning and it had 4000-5000 views.  I wish I had taken note.

      Like 1
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Hot Pink Guitar Have to comment one more time, but shouldn't the replies be less that the views? Or are the views just the unique number of people who have come to this thread?

      Like 1
    • Seabass No, views are page views. They're not unique. 

      Like
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life Then it looks like tampering, eh?

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 3 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Hot Pink Guitar Whoa. Good eyes. There are currently not many more "Views" than users Following and about 25% of the number of Replies.

      Like 2
    • Hot Pink Guitar Here is a capture from a device I still had this open on (from some time this morning). Definitely some kind of tampering.

      Like 5
    • Hey everyone - I see that discrepancy! We'll get this bug reported to the forum provider.

      Like
    • Hot Pink Guitar Wow... No words.

      Like 1
    • Marisa mmhm. Convenient your forum provider is to blame for a discrepancy on this particular topic. But hey, it's your forum. I'm actually surprized you haven't started to delete comments or disallow people from accessing it or even getting rid of it altogether. Either way, this is just the latest in the lengthening string of things since you announced Operation Extort Legacy Users. I'm no longer shocked by any mess up. Having been with YNAB for nearly a decade, I'm just sad and angry, not that it matters, and here to see how it all ends.

      Like 8
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 3 wk ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      Marisa Yes. A bug. In something as simple as view counting. On a post that shows YNAB in a less than flattering light. That’s probably it. A bug. 
       

      I’ve been using YNAB for over 12 and a half years. From back when y’all charged for the iPhone app… or even had one, I think. I think this… bug… is the latest in a series of unfortunate events that will have me using a different product, probably even before this subscription is done. At this point, if y’all told me the sky was blue, I’d have to look outside. Not a good look for a financial services company  

      Like 8
    • Habanero Salsa There are a few posts on the first page with a higher view count than where this one left off (one has 14,000+). My guess is that the goal was to have this drop down in popularity and indeed this post is slipping from the top.

      Like 3
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 3 wk ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Tomato Grizzly I don't believe for a moment that Vanilla Forums (that's still what they use, right?) can't count post views correctly. IMO, this explanation is just another misleading statement from YNAB.

      I've switched electric companies and steaming companies and whatever without a second thought. It was really bothering me to switch from YNAB, for a lot of personal reasons. At some point, it clicked for me that I wasn't tied to YNAB, per se, but the method. The method they pretty much abandoned when they moved to the web, as it turned out. All the gaslighting they've been doing for the last week and a half have made it clear that either I was wrong about them as a company or they're not the same company they were when I started using YNAB at 8 years old. Either way, my money will be spent elsewhere and the recommendations and referrals have stopped.

      Like 6
    • Habanero Salsa Oh absolutely, this was deliberate.

      Like
    • Tomato Grizzly Habanero Salsa Pickle of the North

      Tomato Grizzly said:
      Oh absolutely, this was deliberate.

      Yes! Oh absolutely, this was deliberate! Notice the message didn't say we've noticed this issue on all the forum posts and we're reporting it to the forum provider. Funny thing about computers, they don't do things at random. If there is an issue with View counting it would be on all posts, not this "one" specifically. And I'm pretty sure forum providers don't have bugs like this or they wouldn't be forum providers for long.

      Like 2
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Steel Blue Griffin Can't find anyone else having this issue in any of the Vanilla communities I could find. I'm not a Vanilla expert and my search isn't anything I'd bet my life on. Maybe this one thread uncovered a bug for which no other Vanilla user seems to have sought help in public.

      Like 1
    • Habanero Salsa Didn't even know what Vanilla was, it's huge, it looks like, we're certainly below the 250,000 page views: https://vanillaforums.com/en/plans/.

      It would have to be the coincidence of all coincidences for the views to error on this page only. The UK direct import page is at +6,000 and counting. It would certainly be a strange bug and the timing of the "bug" was exquisite.

      Like 1
    • Pickle of the North im sure they are sorry and will do better in the future…….. right? 

      Like 2
    • Blue Koala (9a03380df751) Of course... they hear us. They're adding even more 'value'... shhhh.....

      Like 1
  • This is me talking to my brother about the cost of nYNAB after its announcement. I reluctantly subscribed on December 30 so I'd lock in the price for life. YNAB - you guys lied to us.

    Like 3
  • What YNAB has done to legacy users is take away their incentive to stay with YNAB.  The locked in price point was incentive enough to switch to nYNAB and most of us came screaming and kicking from YNAB 4 and helped provide a lot of feed back in the early days of nYNAB development, we were believers in the company and wanted to help.  The locked in $45/year was offered to get us to switch and provide a revenue stream during development.  The only advantage legacy users get now is a 10% discount, at the new price point that is only $10/year if paying annually.  This smaller discount will allow us to leave YNAB and try other budgeting apps since  you will not feel like you totally screwed your price advantage by leaving.  I doubt they would honor the 10% if you left and came back but who cares at this point.

    I will stick with YNAB 4 until it breaks and then will probably try Actual since it seems to have been inspired by YNAB 4.  I just hope Actual does not go by the way of YNAB and keep implementing so many features that it becomes bloated and expensive.  In my opinion the beauty of YNAB4 is its  simplicity and single focus of budgeting.  

    Like 7
  • Brendan said:
    Would be good if more people could produce the evidence from the 45 USD price lock-in

     Wouldn't make a difference...they will not change their minds

    Like 2
    • DosBoss57 nope they really dont care theyve been very clear on that 

      Like 1
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Blue Koala (9a03380df751) If proof of the $45 lock-in is there, the only option YNAB has left open is the availability for someone to sue. Then eventually it would become a class action.  I currently belong to 5 class action situations, none of my making.  All 5 entities deny all claims made against them, but will settle. When all is said and done, some will pay out a little money, some will provide services at a lower cost if I chose to use their services. 

      Like
  • like many other uses we don't like such large price increases already I have already cancelled my subscription, how a great company can change so much to a company that lies to its subscribers i dont understand. 

    Like 3
  • funny how  they continue to cite a five year old reddit post as the source for the “ we never promised a fixed rate” lie — a single post on a third party web forum that very few ever saw from five years ago somehow over rides the two (at least) messages sent directly to YNAB users from YNAB THAT DID say very clearly $45 ….. disgusting business practice and a real garbage way to do business. and the completely tone deaf announcement by pop up with an email days later while the software itself still quoted the correct rate (fixed  on the fifth with another “update” ) …. i no longer trust this company and would never recommend someone spend this ridiculous amount of money plus whatever the next increase is for budgeting software.

    ——- yes, you do need a budget — just not this one there are many more choices out there for less money or with far more features for the same money. ynab really has lost its way. i personally am  going with actualbudget instead of rolling back to ynab 4 (which i really liked ) because 4 is no longer supported and my mac needs a third party converter to make it run so its likely only an apple update or two away from death at this point while actualbudget is similar and priced right around the promised rate from ynab before they middle fingered all their original users….. a real “richard” move ynab. sad to see such a great company and product do this to itself

    Like 6
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 3 wk ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Blue Koala (9a03380df751) The converter makes YNAB4 (Adobe Air) run as 64-bit rather than 32-bit. No Apple update anytime soon is going to make 64-bit obsolete. That’s not a problem to be worried about. 
       

      The mobile app may get gut-punched by iOS or Dropbox at some point, That’s the weak link. 

      Like 3
    • Habanero Salsa thats part of it that I worry about and I dont want to rely upon something with zero support.......  but Im just going to move to something else. Its been so long since I used 4 that Id have to learn its method all over again so might as well start over. So far, Im going with actual it does what I need it to do -- wish it had goals but the dev. says its coming so we'll see. Ive started to use their mobile app as well and it syncs transactions well with no dropbox (not sure what they use but it works). no more support for YNAB -- I was hoping they'd pull their heads out and walk this back, admit they made a huge error in the roll out but looks like they're just doubling down all based on one reddit message from Jesse 5 years ago ---- somehow that single third party forum post overrides the direct communications directly from YNAB to YNAB users over the same five years. I no longer trust this company at all. 

      Like 1
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 3 wk ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Blue Koala (9a03380df751) I'm moving to Actual, also. The iOS app needs a lot of work, but it is functional and syncs. I want to see his roadmap for the app, but it is already enough for me to use a zero-based budget and spend based on my categories. That's all I need. Anything beyond that is a bonus.

      I no longer trust YNAB, either. Oh well.

      Like 5
    • Habanero Salsa I am also with Actual (running it alongside Banktivity for now). In essence to me it is YNAB 4 but with ongoing committed support.

      However, having the time, I set up my old YNAB 4 again on Mac and iOS. All working well. In fact so well that I felt like I owed an apology for those who have evangelised for it for so long! It does almost everything I really need. My concern however is also around longevity and in this regard primarily for the iOS app, which I would hate to be without. Ah well, I guess no one can answer this for me! Therefore (for me anyhow) it’s a question of whether $4pm on Actual is a reasonable price for an insurance policy of ongoing compatibility.

      Like 1
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 3 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett Now that you know Actual exists and that YNAB4 will work, just using YNAB4 until it breaks is a possibility. I don't like that Actual doesn't really reconcile, though it's not a massive problem because I can match my cleared balance to my bank's cleared balance.

      I'd budgeted for a new YNAB subscription and I think I'm just going to roll that into an Actual subscription even though YNAB4 will work for now. Maybe supporting that app now will help get the functionality YNAB5 would've had (bearing in mind he's not trying to write a clone app, but you know what I mean.) I think that's worth $4 a month.

      Like 2
    • Habanero Salsa Deep down I know you are totally right! I have been following Actual now for about 2 years and it has not let me down.
       

      The extensive filter tool lets me extract very precise data when I need it (eg for taxes).

      I cannot really risk YNAB 4 breaking on me.

      Like
    • pgauntlett my thought exactly i wish id never gone to the new ynab BUT like everyone else, the only reason i did was because of their promise of a fixed price. 

      Like 2
    • pgauntlett also moving to actual running it alongside ynab until my subscription ends in 3 months i just hope they dont do the same thing ynab did to us a few years down the road….. ive been watching the developers posts on reddit etc  and so far im impressed, it does what i need now —- happy with it and the mobile app is basic but very functional — all i need to do with it is add transactions and check balances so anything more is a bonus. 

      Like 1
    • Habanero Salsa  im very happy with the app (actual) and the desktop version as well it does pretty much everything i need it to do— my wish list for now? better credit card instructions, basic goals functions - basic ones are enough….. add a backup now / save as button so we can make a periodic backup outside the regular app, a little better reconcile function, maybe an undo button thats kinda nice but not that big a deal……. but as it its fine….. AND keep the price around 45-50 a year - happy to pay annually also….. i dont even care about transaction importing i'm used to ynab — its import hasnt ever worked reliably and support is always known issue were working on it blah blah blah…..so i've disabled it and enter manually anyway — happy to keep doing that. all i want is a good clean basic reliable reasonably priced budget app.  most of the new features / value ynab has thrown in there for the last couple of years have been pretty pointless. now that i think about it, maybe just leave actual as is…… it works well —- good luck to everyone. 

      Like 1
    • Blue Koala (9a03380df751) yeah - I have a good feeling about this one. My only reservation after following this for two years is around the likely pace of iterations. Still he has fire in his belly now with all these new customers!

      Like 3
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Blue Koala (9a03380df751) It already has undo, so at least there's that.

      Like
    • Habanero Salsa I did not know that ..... excellent! I will look for it, Im just getting started so I missed it I guess. 

      Like
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Blue Koala (9a03380df751) Hotkeys work (⌘ or CTRL + Z, etc.) as well as a menu option under Edit. 

      Like
      • Max
      • YNAB Class of 2007
      • Max
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa I can verify that it survived the update to iOS 15.1

      Like
  • Like everyone else, I'm voting with my wallet and taking my business elsewhere. I've already cancelled my annual subscription. There is no incentive to stay anymore when there are alternatives like actualbudget

    Like 9
  • I would feel ok about the price increase if the sync was working consistently between YNAB and Amex.  

    Like
  • Like everyone, I'm compelled to look at alternatives due to price increase.  With the legacy 10% discount, I would be around $90 vs. $48 for Actual.  It's not like moving from $90 to $0, so I'm looking at the pros and cons of the net difference of roughly $50 per year or $4 per month.

    Actual seems viable, but has anyone found a 'smooth' way to move from YNAB to Actual without a year's worth of data input? 

    Like
      • Stringent
      • Stringent
      • 3 wk ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      away2maine  The Dev is working on a nYNAB import for Actual. It’s in testing stages at the moment. I am hopeful it won’t be too long. 

      Like 4
      • kinwolf
      • kinwolf
      • 3 wk ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      away2maine I have used the (let's call it beta) importer from here and it correctly imported all my data(6+years worth of transactions).  But it's not user friendly yet. I work in IT and I am used to fiddling with rough-edge in-development programs, and even so I did struggle a bit to make it work since the doc and integration isn't there yet.  I had to navigate the slack forum for some answers.  But as Stringent mentioned, it's being worked on to make it an integral part of the main software.

      The dev might be overwhelmed right now though with the tons of requests he gets.  YNAB anti-customer move is both a blessing(new users coming in) and a curse(huge influx of requests) for less known apps like this one.

      Like 3
    • kinwolf Clean slate! Start a new budget!

      Like 2
    • away2maine keep in mind that YNAB has literally doubled its cost in the last 5 years since it came out (and the promised legacy customers the original rate) so budget for increases every few years . 

      Like 1
    • Stringent I just started over -- fresh start with rearranged categories, copied over my save for long term expenses amounts and everything else will fall into place.... I do wish I could import and separate my two older archive budgets into actual however so hopefully that'll get up and running soon 

      Like 1
    • Turquoise Piano  - also clean slate!!! thats what I did as well - not to difficult and a good time to rearrange things 

      Like 1
      • Brendan
      • brendan_nz
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      away2maine I imported several years of budgets and 5000+ transactions into Actual.

      See if these instructions help you. Ask on slack if you get stuck,

      https://actualbudget.slack.com/archives/CAS9SFB5J/p1635876372008900?thread_ts=1635800191.004700&cid=CAS9SFB5J

      Like
  • Hi!

    Importing nYNAB data to Actual worked for me. I have successfully imported nYNAB data going back from 2014 which was about 16.000 transactions. Only 65 split transactions need my manual processing - these were some strange splits like this:

    Split transaction for 70$:
    - 20$ in "Clothes" category
    - 50$ transfer to another account

    and now Actual treats those transfers as "uncategorized transactions"
    I'll have to add those transfers manually keeping the same date and remove those transfers from splits.

    It's not very easy process and it failed for me for the first time, because I did not install all tools for nodeJS.

    You have to follow exact instructions which are given here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/actualbudget/comments/qojcex/import_from_ynab_4_and_nynab/

    regards

    Like
  • just cancelled mine effective next renewal and it felt great! no need to support a company that I cannot trust, there are many better choices out there for $99 a year or less. the sudden doubling of prices after promising a fixed rate for ynab 4 users is a real "Richard" move by YNAB - had a good run but time to move on.

    Fun and interesting fact that is TOTALLY unrelated to this post, "Dick" is short for "Richard" -- as I said totally unrelated to my post just a fun fact I thought Id share.  

    Like 8
  • Long time YNAB customer, all of a sudden my price doubles without any reason. They speak about added value but they fail to explain what that means. Talking with support for a while now, they fail to understand that this is unfair and seems to lack any insight on budget or pricing. Honestly, to me it feels like they need quick cashflow and are using us to crowdfund something. It seems this is the perfect moment to finally look at some other options. Very sad tho...ynab shooting in their own foot like that.

    Like 4
  • I am really unhappy about this, it is proven with the twitter post that I did not dream it up that YNAB promised a lifetime 45 USD price tag. IT WAS THE REASON I SWITCHED FROM A PRODUCT THAT WORKED FOR ME AND WAS PAID FOR. I feel cheated and worst of all don't trust this company anymore. 


    And I am really hoping that their new price points backfire spectacularly, is it really that special what they do to charge more than Netflix and a lot more than Amazon Prime? I don't think so ... I mean I only use this because I like to keep track of my expenses, but I am also sure I would not, as of now, save one more unit of money without YNAB. 


    In all these years they did not even manage to translate that thing in other major languages ... maybe they could generate revenue by attracting more people with features and usability ... instead they now  try to milk their, surely shrinking, customer base.

    Like 4
  • Just another example of how in the modern day success changes a company.

    Like 6
  • Canceled my subscription today, my current term expires in March.  My plan is to use YNAB 4 until it dies and then try Actual if that happens.  In the interim I may try to develop my own budgeting software using Swift and the Xcode IDE.  I have 35 years of experience in software development but my experience is in HP Basic  (Long time ago) and National Instruments LabView which I used to developed aircraft test software.  Hopefully learning Swift and Xcode will not be too challenging and should be fun since I am now retired and need something to do LOL.  I'm sure this will be a long term project though.

    I did find out that the 10% discount is for life and will still be avaliable even with a break in service.  Also, YNAB's data retention policy is 3 years from the day your subscription expires and they will send an email before destroying your data.  This info is useful to those that may want to try something else but are concerned with loosing their discount or data if they decide to come back to YNAB at a later time.  I know a lot of the people leaving are simply done with YNAB after the doubling of price but others like to leave a back back door open for return.

    I do plan on running nYNAB in parallel with YNAB 4 through the end of this year so I will have a clean break in nYNAB data at the year end.

    Like 8
    • ynaber2613 Hope you got it in writing that they will honour the 10% discount, even with a break in service!

      Like
    • Sky Blue Tape (mmille) I did but I guess policy can change anytime.

      Here is the reply form YNAB:

      Thanks for reaching out about this. The short answer is: Yes, you will still be eligible for the 10% discount even if you have a gap in service.

      A few more details on the process:

      Cancelling Your Subscription
      If you don't want your subscription to renew, you can change that in Account Settings.

      1. Log in to the web app.
      2. Click your Budget name in the upper left corner.
      3. Select Account Settings.
      4. Scroll down and you'll see the Cancel Subscription button.

      You'll have access to your budget data until the end of the billing period and can resume your subscription at any time until then. Afterwards, you would need to resubscribe, but your budget history would be there waiting for you once you do. The 10% discount will remain on your account even if your subscription is canceled.

      Deleting Your Account
      You can also choose to delete your account, if you'd like. If you do, a prorated refund will be issued for the remaining subscription time. If your subscription remains expired for three years, we'll delete the account according to our Data Retention Policy. If you delete your account, your 10% discount will also be deleted, but we can restore that for you if you choose to return to YNAB.

      Price Change Frustration
      I can definitely understand why you are frustrated. There is never a good time to raise prices, and our team didn't take the decision lightly. The new price more accurately reflects the value of our app, education, and support, while also allowing us to continue making improvements and updates. 

      As budgeters ourselves, we understand the impact that price changes can have. Your subscription renews in March 2022, so you have some time to decide whether YNAB still feels like a good fit to you. We hope and trust you’ll continue seeing the value of a YNAB subscription—and as always, we’re here for any other questions you have along the way.

      Like
    • ynaber2613 They are still using the "V" word I see. 

      I value a business I can trust

      Like 1
  • Reading the comments below, the saddest part of this whole affair is the fact that the community is going to be losing some of it's most helpful and powerful advocates.

    Thank you for all your help Superbone nolesrule

    Like 11
      • ynaber2613
      • ynaber2613
      • 2 wk ago
      • 11
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Major Agree 100%, almost hate to mention names because I do not want to leave someone out but I would definitely add WordTenor  to the list.  I was just reading a post yesterday from 3 years ago about keeping accounts such as CD's, I-Bonds, savings all on budget and all 3 of the mentioned names had excellent advice on that topic, Patzer  also chimed in ( miss him a lot).  I vaguely remember that someone was going to maintain a site for old YNAB 4 users, does anyone know if that happened?  I doubt that once our term expires with nYNAB we will be able to log into this site anymore.

      Edit: If I were YNAB I would give @Superbone nolesrule  WordTenor and other heavy contributors that provide solid budgeting advice a free subscription for life.  There is no telling how much others have been helped by such advice.  That would be a good business decision that would cost them very little.

      Like 11
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      ynaber2613 The site that you are speaking of is https://forum.abudgetthatworks.org/login. It requires an invitation from an existing member. If you will message me your e-mail address I'll be happy to send you an invite.

      Like
    • Budget_NC sent you a message, thanks

      Like 1
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 wk ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Major From what I can tell I think nolesrule is sticking around for now, but retaining the snark :D.  But as far as offering his super valuable support and ideas, I don't know.  It is becoming very clear that the YNAB support reps here are now just emailing people with White Glove Support™ instead of posting public answers for others to benefit from.  So if that's the new M.O. of official support staff, and our work-for-free paying members offer less or no more help, I don't think this will be much of a "support forum" for long.

      Like 5
    • Annieland I mean, there are still a lot of truly valuable (yeah, I did that on purpose) discussions and solutions on this forum that people can search and learn from independently.  Not that newbies often seem to do that (I guess if they do, we don't see them, and that's natural).  Still, it would be a dead community in terms of support.  It's not the newer nynab users that have spent years thinking through these ideas about the best way to use the method, software, and how those two things would best interact.  While newer users do have ideas about what they'd like in the app, those suggestions usually stem from preconceptions that don't mesh with the method as well as other ideas.  It's usually the older users that have the temerity to vocally evaluate (with the authority of proven experience, IMO) official stances from the company.  It almost seems like it's a way to silence opposing views.  I will therefore take this opportunity to remind everyone that healthy and respectful debate is a good thing, and those qualities are not determined by the level of agreement of the participants. 

      Perhaps it won't change anything, but people should not forget that last sentence.

      There might still be the journal aspect, and the challenges, which are generally comprised of a different set of people. 

      Like 3
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Annieland It's harder to charge people and claim it's for support if they can get better, faster support for free in a public forum. It's easier to manage public dissent by handling all communication privately.

      Obviously, YNAB believes it's past the stage where it needs evangelists and a community of helpful users. Now, it just needs people to pipe down and pay. A good way to accomplish that might be to raise the price for those users who have been helpful so they, their answers, and, frankly, their complaints go away and never is heard a discouraging word, only the company line. But they wouldn't do that, would they... hey, wait a minute...

      Like 6
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa Right, so why continue to have a support forum? I mean, the old one shut down when it became unpalatable to the company...  If the new staff procedure is to answer public posts privately , support should only be handled in submitting a ticket and the forum would just be for users.  

      Like 2
    • Budget_NC What`s going on in that forum? I`m curious, especially now after they doubled the price over here... I`d switch back to YNAB4 in a heartbeat if it still supported syncing to the Android app (via Dropbox or Wi-Fi, both broke for me). And I`m looking for other alternatives, but prospects seem bleak.

      Like
    • This is true, I only mentioned those names as they were two users that really helped me out when starting out 🙂

      Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 2 wk ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Navy Blue Network you might give it another try. Ynab 4 android app and drop box sync are working great for me.  I'm just finishing out the year on nYNAB before I finalize my decision to switch back.  

      Like 3
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Navy Blue Network To be honest I haven't visited much lately so I'm not sure how much discussion of the price change is taking place.  It's most been the general budgeting and financial conversations that have always taken place among that group.  The one exception is a very long thread regarding Covid-19 that became a very political discussion and is part of why I stopped visiting as frequently.  I should find time to check in and see what's happening.

      Like 1
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 2 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Navy Blue Network OK, I just checked and there is indeed a lengthy discussion of YNAB alternatives going on over there.  I have no immediate plans to stop using YNAB but am happy to see serious work taking off on Actual Budget as YNAB has needed some legitimate competition for quite some time.  It can only make them better.  I'll drop in more frequently over in the other forum and will just stay out of the Coronavirus discussion.

      Like 2
      • PinguinCoder
      • Software Developer
      • Tan_Zebra_d69cdb118645
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Budget_NC I've also sent you a message and would like to join the forum :) 

      Like
    • Budget_NC I just sent you a PM as well.

      Like
    • Herman I'll give it another try. It'd be great if it worked again, I much prefer YNAB 4's UI to nYNAB's, regardless of this price raising fiasco.

      Like
    • Budget_NC That's really excellent! Please let us know of any exciting developments (pun intended) not related to the COVID thread. I'm itching to jump ship just as soon as my current subscription ends and it'd be nice to have an advanced tip on what other ship to jump to. I'm trying out Moneydance, which has a native Linux client and an Android app (that's the dream right there) and it's really good for organizing my finances, but specifically in the budget department it's not really measuring up.

      Like
    • Budget_NC Sent you a message.  Thank you.

      Like
      • scooterboy
      • scooterboy
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      ynaber2613 Well said. They deserve it.

      Like
  • Suitable alternative found after testing various software.  Sub cancelled.    I'll probably have to email them to get a refund on the remaining months.

    Like 1
      • ewm003
      • ewm003
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      kinwolf Just curious... which one did you decide to go with? I am still weighing alternatives. In the meantime I am using YNAB4. 

      Like
      • kinwolf
      • kinwolf
      • 2 wk ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      ewm003 well, I didn't mention what I moved to since we all have very very different ways of doing our budgets, but I did a test-drive of various apps mentioned in the other thread and selected Actual, which does everything I need to.  The import of my current data was a bit rough but this feature should be smoothed out in the coming days for future adopters(dev said "this week").    What features are currently in place are very solid and works pretty much like YNAB4 was working.  So much that I am a bit sad I didn't know about that application when I had to shift to nYNAB, I would have probably moved to it way back then if I had known.  Having my personal budget data in a SAAS(software as a service) has never sit well with me.(I work in IT,  and I  see daily that no security is full-proof, so I'm probably a tad more sensitive/paranoid then others about that.)

      Like 4
      • PinguinCoder
      • Software Developer
      • Tan_Zebra_d69cdb118645
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      kinwolf just delete your Account and you will get the remaning months refunded

      Like 1
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 13 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      kinwolf i got my refund within 48 hours of closing my account - and I’m in the UK

      Like 1
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Orchid Python @kinwolf - also in UK. I emailed Ynab support and asked them to provide a partial refund but also keep my account dormant in case I decided to return later. They agreed and the refunds was very quick 

      Like
  • As a relatively new user, it's so hard to see all these dismayed and angry comments from legacy users. Right now YNAB is providing excellent value for me but... how long will that last? My debt journey will be many years long, and while this increase seems piddly to many of us who have only been on the bandwagon for a short while, I do wonder how long this software will be worth our dollars. Sigh. Even when that time comes for those who subscribed when I did, I'll probably stick with it for longer than strictly wise because of the annoyance of program hopping.

    Like 4
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 wk ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Sloth When I started with YNAB it never felt like I was using some "premium" product.  Not because anything was not premium about it!  It just didn't scream out to me, "Yes, we're expensive here, but we're worth it, you'll see!"  It was more like, "Hey, we been there, we're here to help you!"  It just doesn't feel like that now.  I'm out of my element if this is to be some kind of premium elite software service, and the price shouts that from the rooftops.

      Like 8
    • Sky Blue Sloth To old timers nYNAB just doesn’t seem that different from the MVP that we signed up for at $45/50 a year all those years ago - the mobile app has the same two reports, web app the same 3. True goals have been renamed targets and they are better, but we as a community came up with ideas and hacks that made YNAB work despite the limits of software - we added the value. I got to be in a beta for direct import in my country but the supported banks are 20% of my transactions, so it kind of highlights that the UK isn’t valued enough by the Corporation to make it work for us. Loan accounts work for a particular type of loan and you have to hack it if your loan doesn’t fit the model they built for. 

      We’ve beat that European overdraft have a steady 120 day AoM and buy what we save for. 30 days ago I would have attributed that to YNAB and gone all freaky about how it changed our life. I was looking to the community, not YNAB, to provide a methodology for those next steps because the software doesn’t really do anything for you when you have your financial boat trimmed and cruising efficiently. 

      Well there’s nothing like a botched price increase with (continued) tone deaf messaging or silence to make you reassess all that and realise you are hacking software that isn’t much more value than that MVP you signed up for in 2016.

      What we have done is focused on our own finances and provided the self discipline to make it work. Draw up a list - The value that #you# added vs YNAB to make a difference to your finances thus far. You picked an envelope system and you chose YNAB. Don’t ever forget that the power is in your hands and you don’t have to continue with software that provides diminishing value over time. 

      My friends always say I am too generous in giving generously for no return and here I am looking at resubscribing at the fun new price to see if new features - not classes, YouTube content - appear or if it’s just money for old rope. 

      Like 5
    • beige_case_1939d61da8b9 You've so eloquently stated my exact fear -- that it won't be too long in the grand scheme of things before my financial boat is at cruising speed, and that the time to jump ship is closer than I'd like. Because I don't have the previous experience, or feeling of betrayal, or sticker shock that more established users are dealing with I am 99% sure I'll be continuing with the program for at least another year... but it's good to keep the fears and concerns of those more experienced than myself somewhere at the back of my mind to help me identify any of the company's repeated missteps/failures to deliver in the future. Informed consumer, and all that.

      Like 1
    • Annieland That "we've got your back" messaging also drew me in. As a new user, I have yet to experience the letdown that so many who have posted feel about lack of feature development over time, misleading policies, etc etc. It's good (if slightly terrifying) to keep this data in the back of my head for when my renewal time comes in a year or so.

      Like 1
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 2 wk ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Sloth nYNAB still doesn't feel as functional as YNAB4 did, and that's the point. It started behind and then split into 40 different directions rather ineffectively. Barely any of the large promised features have seen daylight in years.

      Like 6
    • SgtBatten That's certainly a bad sign, and one of the reasons I've been thanking other old timers for the data points their experiences provide me. I do not intend in any way to deny or contradict your experiences, and I'm certainly not a YNAB shill. That being said, the current version is all I know, and I can only judge on where the platform goes from here. I made a decision on whether or not the fee was acceptable based on the current version and what my needs currently are, but that doesn't stop me from worrying that I'll have to change platforms again sooner than I'd like. I'll continue to make that decision year by year. And the experiences -- good and bad -- of long time users will help me make that decision, but not make the decision for me.

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 2 wk ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Sloth I like the current platform too. I don't have much gripe with it. But the company has failed to do so much more with it, both promised and also simple changes that would vastly improve the experience for everyone. 

      Like 3
    • SgtBatten Agree, I have been using YNAB 4 for a couple of weeks now and I like the interface much better, it has a simpler look and feel, I wish I had of never switched to nYNAB now and wasted 6 years of subscription payments on nYNAB.  I would be willing to pay $45/yr if they would just keep YNAB 4 updated with future operating and storage system changes.

      As a matter of fact, I had nYNAB setup to mimic YNAB 4 as much as possible all of these years.  I had credit cards setup as checking accounts, I used the income for next month work around, and I did not use direct import. 

      Like 5
    • Annieland whenever their pricing has been queried they say something along the lines that it is not just about the software but more about the education, about the training to get out of debt, about the hand holding  etc etc. But if that is the case, then all the experienced users (who are past that stage) will effectively subsidise the new or less financially savvy users for ever after. 

      Like 3
    • pgauntlett As do the international users who pay through the nose for a direct import function that we can't use...

      Like 4
    • Sky Blue Tape (mmille) indeed. I’m in the UK and raised that with them over and over …

      Like 1
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tape (mmille) As do the users who pay through the nose for a direct import function that we refuse to use...

      Like 1
    • Habanero Salsa CHOOSING not to use it is not the same as not being able to do so.  I wouldn't necessarily use it if I could, but what bothers me about paying for it is that I *can't* use it; I don't even have that option.  

      Like 3
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tape (mmille) It's not the same. It's also not acceptable. Should my cable company charge me for HBO just because it's available?

      Like 2
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 2 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa They charge you for 175 other channels I bet you never watch.

      Like 2
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 wk ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Herman heheh that’s a good point. Totally unrelated, but I used to have these arguments with my husband about cable packages. I was for and he was against. He always said we should pay per channel we want. Now I’ve officially won the argument because I show him our streaming bills, and I’m like, “What did you think? Each channel would be 17 cents each?  Hope you’re happy!”

      I will admit, I watch a hell of a lot of the channels 😎. 

      Like 3
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Herman Well, they kinda don't since I cut the cord, but as a concept, there's a difference between premium channels and other channels.

      Most of the other software I looked only charged for bank connections if you chose that package. YNAB spent years -- literally years -- arguing that automatic download was contrary to the system, now they make you pay for it whether you want it or not. Well, I pay for it for about another six weeks, anyway.

      Like 1
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Annieland I pay way less now than I did with DirecTV. Including my internet, I pay about the same for streaming as DirecTV, but I'd have internet not matter what. I have so much stuff I can't watch it all and will not be renewing Britbox for just that reason. 

      I need to embrace the "rolling subscription" model.

      Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Annieland yup and that's why I still have cable. To get it all via streaming would cost at least as much, if not more.

      Like 1
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa I cut the cord 12 years ago too.  I pay for Netflix and Amazon and I have an antenna :).   You are right of course about HBO and that's the difference I guess.  YNAB thinks it's part of the basic package and you think it should be a premium channel.   I'm not arguing either way but that's the primary difference between not being able to use it and choosing not to..  

      Like
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Herman Yeah, I said they were different from the outset, though. I'd be more inclined to believe bank connections were part of the basic package if YNAB hadn't spent years saying they weren't needed and, in fact, would be counterproductive to the method. 

      I had an antenna running through my Xbox until MS ended support for their LiveGuide. Now I'm using Channels and an HD Homerun. There's a surprising amount of cool stuff on the sub channels. I have youtubetv for the rest of the TV-ish stuff and even though it's gone up, it has pretty much everything I'd watch.

      Like
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      jenmas I had cable in the early 80’s and I was obsessed with it, and the cable guide and I’d read all the packages. I remember when I convinced my dad to get “Rainbow Gold” and I even journaled about it in 1st grade on the day the installer was coming. All 37 channels (several more suitable for UHF). $100 a month.  Imagine what that would cost today with inflation. Cable/Satellite is a deal in my book!  But only if you’re an old lady like me who needs to watch her stories every day. 
       

      ETA: It was a better deal when you could hack it to bits  Way more than 175 channels for free, including the good ones.  I miss those days.

      Like 1
    • Herman  Luckily, my (former) cable company also offered different tiers of services so I didn’t have to pay for all those extra channels I didn’t watch. 

      Like
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 2 wk ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa  Yes, Jesse used to push manual entry as a way of staying in touch with your money/spending.  I assume he flipped when he realized that they could not attract younger users unless they offered all of the fancy features and conveniences.  In other words, in order to take it to the next level, he had to change his methods.  Just look at rule number 4.

      Like 5
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 2 wk ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Seabass Yep.  The original rule number 4 was to live on last month's paycheck.  That has transformed our household budget and will always be the true rule number 4 to me.  I pay no attention to age of money.

      Like 3
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 2 wk ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Budget_NC I came in during YNAB4 so I might be wrong but I think living on last month's paycheck was originally rule 1. 

      Like 4
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 wk ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger Yes, originally at the very beginning. It was moved to 4 either during YNAB 3 or 4 I believe. And then out for nYNAB.

      Like 5
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Superbone I started using YNAB3 at the beginning of 2012, and at that time I remember it as rule #4.  I could be wrong - it's coming up on 10 years.  All I know is that it's the rule that had the greatest impact on my household because we were pretty much already doing the other 3.  We were just looking for the right tool to keep doing it.

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 wk ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Budget_NC Yes, it's very possible it was 1 in Pro and then changed to 4 in YNAB 3. I first bought Pro in 2008 but it took about a year and a half before I really got into it as I was going through a divorce at the time. I also think the transition from Pro to 3 happened in that time frame. Just found proof that it was Rule 1 in YNAB Pro at least:

      http://personalfinancesoftwarereviews.com/reviews/ynab-pro/

      YNAB (You Need A Budget) Pro Review

      Rule One: Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck

      "I researched for a while and couldn’t find another piece of software that stresses living on last month’s income. I couldn’t even find a personal finance “guru” that suggested such a thing. I’m a big fan (obviously) of this idea and am suprised nobody thought of it earlier!"

       

      And appears to have changed in YNAB 3:

      http://personalfinancesoftwarereviews.com/ynab-3-review/

      "According to Rule #1, you’ll allocate all of your “Available to Budget” funds until it reaches zero (giving every dollar a job)."

       

      So, there you have it!

      Like 4
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 13 days ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Thanks. I just remember experienced posters commenting on the psychological impacts on downgrading it to rule 4. I do realise that it was fairly easy for me to transition to that mindset; at the time I got paid once a month on the 28th and my finances were in a reasonable(ish) state. It wasn't really much of a shift for me but the difference it made to my mindset and, more importantly, my husband's was huge.

      I can see that it is a much harder transition for folks paid more frequently or on a different schedule and that the apparent impossibility of achieving that could put people off before they start so I understood moving it to rule 4 but for me as soon as I'd achieved it, it mentally became my first rule. I have never decoupled from that.

      I had budgeted for years, was a trained but non-practising accountant and had a spreadsheet that essentially managed a category system within a savings account so wasn't new to budgeting systems. The two key things that changed things for me were living on last month's income and not turning on the red arrow but forcing myself to WAM from other categories. 

      Losing it as a rule altogether and just introducing some nebulous concept of AOM which blatantly doesn't tell you what most people think it does 🤯

      Like 3
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 13 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger I get the concept of having it as Rule 4 because you're probably going to need to succeed at Rules 1-3 for a while as you make progress toward 4. It doesn't mean it's the least important of the four, just that it's likely to be the last one that falls into place.

      In retrospect, their replacing it with AoM should've been a bigger warning than it was.

      Opinion is divided on the red arrow, which is probably why it was available but not mandatory. If someone in a relationship consistently overspends her Fun category, I don't think it's fair to WAM to cover it so she can just do it against next month, for example. That doesn't even get into reimbursements, either business or personal. Or credit cards. Knowingly using it as a tool is one thing. Using it to lie to yourself about the state of your budget, well, yeah, that's not good.

      Like 2
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Thank you for the stroll down memory lane.  I think I remember looking through this review just before making the decision to start using YNAB3.

      Like
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 13 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger My wife and I had budgeted for years as well using the envelope method, going back to Larry Burkett's Financial Planning Organizer in 1994 (on DOS).  We were a couple of months into using YNAB and had an established emergency fund but were budgeting current.  That's when I decided to take money from the emergency fund to build the buffer and start living on last month's income.  It was transformational and we've been doing it ever since.  As I recall, I spent time really going through the budget to see what was needed in the current month vs. upcoming months in categories that weren't "sinking fund" types of categories.  In the process of doing that I found about $1,000 that was transferred back to savings.  That "Income Next Month" category in nYNAB is never going away:-)

      Like 2
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 13 days ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa I readily confess to abusing the red arrow, and didn't fully realize it until migrating from YNAB4 to nYNAB.  I don't disagree with those who believe it should have remained as an option, but know that I should never use it again.  Anyone who has followed my posts knows that I'm far more annoyed with removing the check number field from checking accounts, which I will forever see as a foolish and condescending action toward customers.

      Like 4
    • Budget_NC I use(d) the red arrow for one thing only - that is to track reimbursements.  For example, this past summer I broke my ankle.  My personal injury insurance paid out, but not enough to cover the costs associated with my lack of ability to function for close to 8 weeks.  And since it was due to a poorly maintained sidewalk (public) you can bet there will be a lawsuit.  I need to know what my actual expenses were (after the insurance) as a basis for my claim, so that number needs to stay red until the suit is filed.  Yes, I know I'm floating that money and that part of my budget is unreliable, but since I have more than enough in savings to cover it, I'm not terribly worried about it at the moment.  I know I could (and had been) negative budgeting the correct amount to carry it over every month, but the red arrow is certainly easier!

      Like 1
      • ynaber2613
      • ynaber2613
      • 13 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Budget_NC Haven't heard Larry Burkett's name in a long time, I loved listening to him on the radio.  He was so inspirational.

      Like 1
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tape (mmille) I used it to track reimbursements AND abused it.

      But my favorite part of the original YNAB(s) was that overspending this month cut into next month's available to budget.  That was my game changer.  No longer could I say, oh whoopsie, ate out too much, try better next time.  But I could see with my own eyes that now I had even LESS for next month, perhaps for a major bill.  That gave me the accountability I needed to get started.

      I'm ambivalent on the red arrow at this point.  I'm experimenting with a new system which I'm pretty sure will let me go over budget without much hand-slapping, but I did appreciate nYNAB "allowing" me to WAM which I felt like was "cheating" before.  But right now I'm swamped in a mess of medical reimbursements that I'm trying to tidy up and I could REALLY use a red arrow back to freaken January.  The money moves history isn't even helping.  I've painted myself into a corner with an offset amount that doesn't make sense to me anymore.  Argh.

      Like
    •  Annieland YNAB4 allowed you to WAM and nYNAB takes this month's overspending and deducts it from next month's ATB (unless you paid for it on credit card, which I actually find annoying).

       

      Money moves is a useless feature because it includes anything you budget (ie, if it's the 1st of the month and you've just budgeted your income then that's what it will show you).

      Like 1
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 13 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Annieland Understand completely.  I can't hit like on this because I'm sorry that you're going through a bad time.  Hoping you can get all of that worked out soon.

      Like 1
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tape (mmille) I've never been thrilled about some of the credit card logic either.  I still use the nYNAB approach to credit cards because I was already familiar with the payment category approach.  But I don't like the logic of YNAB deciding not to move money to the payment category because I overspent somewhere else on a credit card.  It's usually an accident when it happens anyway but the YNAB behavior on the payment category just becomes one more thing that I have to chase down.

      Like
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tape (mmille) Oh I know it allowed me to WAM, I'm just saying I didn't because I *felt* like I was cheating, not because I was :).

      Basically, nYNAB kinda toed the line of how they used to have it, with that overspending coming out of next month, but I definitely never left red in nYNAB.  If I overpaid in cash enough to get a red, it was likely I'd bounce a check, so no thanks!  With the whole CC handling and the green/red/yellow bubbles I just adjusted my workflow in line with nYNAB and never left red or yellow.

      So in summary, I did everything they said, helped others do the same, and now am learning a new program. La dee freakin' da.

      Like
      • Bad Mister Frosty
      • Clayfighter Champion
      • Navy_Blue_Mixer.15
      • 13 days ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa My recollection as a YNAB4 user was that Jesse suddenly came up with the Age of Money metric as a major selling point of the subscription version of YNAB, which we call nYNAB.  Lots of folks were unhappy with the subscription model in general and also called BS on the Age of Money metric--myself included.  Many of us knew at the time that it was a marketing ploy made in order to promote a new version of the product which would generate tons more revenue than what the "buy it once" product would EVER generate.  Many of us smart/frugal/cheap budgeters declined to get on the bandwagon.  Some were persuaded to jump into the subscription model with a discounted price.  As for me, I subscribed after YNAB4 stopped working on my desktop after an OS upgrade.  Then, recently, YNAB4 started working again on my desktop.  I don't know why--but I'm happy it did!!!  Anyway, my point is that Jesse is not any better than the current CEO and those doing the latest money grab.  They're all out to make as much money as they can.  This in itself isn't a problem for me, but BS'ing folks with bogus "improvements"  to a product and unjustified price increases, implemented, in effect, " just because"--well that's a line many of us won't allow our wallets to cross.  

      Those of you who are new to this app and who have no experience with what came before, well you likely won't care one whit about how the rest of us legacy users feel.  YNAB HQ certainly doesn't.  And that's fine.  I got what I needed from Jesse and Co. over the years and paid money for it.  I don't need this company or its newer software anymore.  This is my last post in these forums.  Best wishes to all.  Goodbye.

      Like 7
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 13 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Bad Mister Frosty I think Jesse was better up until the mid to late YNAB4 timeframe. As far as I know, he's ultimately responsible for the way things have gone since then since things have flowed from decisions he made.

      I'm sure it's paid off for him monetarily, which is fine, in and of itself. What isn't fine, imo, is that it feels dishonest to me and it feels like a betrayal of budgeting coherence in favor of more income.

      Regardless, the way they handled this has alienated me and I'll no longer be recommending this software. Quite the opposite. My subscription is over at the end of the year and I'll start the new year with different software. My YNAB category is already renamed Budgeting.

      Like 1
      • Keetman
      • Spring_Green_Router.3
      • 11 days ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Seabass 

      "Yes, Jesse used to push manual entry as a way of staying in touch with your money/spending.  I assume he flipped when he realized that they could not attract younger users unless they offered all of the fancy features and conveniences."

       

      Ironically, I was a user that thought I couldn't live without direct import.  Now, thanks to YNAB's handling of this, I went to Actual and I have to manually import.  I've found I'm closer to the process than I've been in years.

      Maybe Jesse was correct.  Thanks YNAB!  You helped me one last time.

      Like 3
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 11 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Keetman LOL, actually, I do believe he was right.  And it is the least YNAB could do on your way out!😂

      Like 2
      • Orchid Python
      • YNAB since 2005
      • Orchid_Python.9
      • 4 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      I always thought this was a budget app, not a banking app - which is what it has turned into with nYNAB, hence having direct import means you don't have to look at the budget so much I'd have thought

      Like 1
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