Open Banking for direct banking in the UK

Hi

Now that the UK has started Open Banking , does YNAB have any plans to support it?

Yolt is already making great strides here, and I anticipate that there will be a flurry of similar apps/services.

Thanks

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  • We're closing out Bank Importing threads in the forum to make sure these issues are better resolved.

    Replies in this thread have been turned off, but you can still suggest new banks (even international banks) in the app, if you haven’t already!

    If you’re having trouble connecting to a bank in the US or Canada, please fill out this form and our Direct Import team will help you get things back up and running!

    Like
  • Hi juwlz !

    At the moment, our Direct Import partner doesn't technically support international banking institutions. However, they've been offering connections to some UK institutions as a test of that ability lately. If you see your UK institution listed, we hope you'll give it a try!

    The Open Banking API may change things, and allow for more consistent connections across UK financial institutions, but we can't say for certain just yet! Time will tell and we're keeping our eyes on things! :)

    Like 1
    • Faness said:
      they've been offering connections to some UK institutions as a test of that ability lately.

       This is not the same as the Open Banking, the current method still requires us to hand over our banking credentials which is against the terms of service for those banks, as well as a security concern. I understand it's in place and nothing will probably happen, but if it does, as it's against the bank policy, I will have no leg to stand on. 

      The Open Banking does not use user credentials but back end authentication between systems, which offers more security and also does not go against the banks terms and conditions. 

      As these APIs are now documented, vs pretending to be a user logging in, it should be easier to implement these with less bugs in the process. Is YNAB in contact with the Direct Import partner (presuming this is still Finicity) to have a sort of roadmap to have this in place? Or is it a matter of sit back and wait?

      Also, as this does not require the storing of users bank credentials, nor pretending to be a user and scraping the data, it's just APIs, it is something YNAB could more easily do in house alongside and expand their reach. 

      Like 4
    • Hi Spring Green Tugboat !

      Thank you for weighing in here! I completely understand those security concerns. I'm going to leave a link to our security policy, just for added reassurance, but I understand safety on our end doesn't change the policy on the bank's end.

      At the moment, this is more of a sit back and wait situation. We've expanded the number of direct import providers we work with (we've added MX and another to the list with Finicity), in hopes of improving the experience with direct import and its capabilities. However, we don't have a definite time frame for support of Open Banking from any of them.. yet (we're keeping our ears to the ground for updates). 

      As for handling things in house, this topic came up since we've recently started making the YNAB API available to users. At this time, we don't have the manpower or resources to take on direct import in house, but it's definitely a YNAB dream! We'd love to be able to handle it ourselves someday but it's a lot to put on our development team, so we're holding off on that idea for now.

      Like 1
  • Thanks.  Last time I found where to look, none of the banks / credit companies that I deal with were supported (very few UK banks are).

    Where do I find a list of which (UK) banks are supported?

    Like 1
    • juwlz We don't have an available list outside of the program. In order to check for your bank, you'll need to click on the Add Account option in YNAB and type in the name of your bank.

      We have a number of things in store for direct import and we hope you'll like the changes that are coming! :)

      Like
    • juwlz Please be careful, you have to hand over your banks user login credentials. This will be a breach of your banks terms and conditions, so if anything bad ever happens they will not support you.

      Like
  • Hello  Faness , it is encouraging that Lloyd's bank is on the list. I know that Bank of Scotland is the same bank and uses the same apps/software, etc. Could you kindly consider adding it to the list of banks being tested for this functionality? 

    Many thanks

    Like 1
    • Hi ibrahim !

      I didn't know that those two banks were linked! Would you mind taking a moment to suggest it in the app, if you haven’t already? In order to request it be added, we need a few details about the bank which are gathered in the app by clicking on the 'Suggest an institution' link. :)

      Like
    •  Faness  Same goes for Halifax - also a division of Bank of Scotland, and part of the Lloyds banking group. I've suggested it in the app.

      Like 1
    • Steve Tweeddale Thank you for taking the time to submit that suggestion! We can't make any promises, but we're hopeful for what the open API will mean going forward! :)

      Like
    • ibrahim For some reason, Lloyds does not appear anymore in the listing. I also saw from a friend some time ago that Barclays and Barclaycard UK were there, but they're not either now.

      Like
      • ibrahim
      • ibrahim
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Tan Griffin I have just checked again, and I was able to pull Lloyds Bank (see screenshot) from the list. I could not confirm if it works as I don't have an account with them. I am hoping that Bank of Scotland will be added soon.

      Like
    • ibrahim Please be careful, you have to hand over your banks user login credentials. This will be a breach of your banks terms and conditions, so if anything bad ever happens they will not support you.

      Like
  • Hi  Faness

    Your reply above about suggesting institutions made me go looking for the opportunity to suggest an institution (which I would have done for my own accounts if you had suggested it earlier). 

    I couldn't find it at first, so if anybody else needs to find where to do this, you have to try to add a new account, or link an existing account to a bank that isn't already supported before you get the opportunity to suggest a new one.

    Faness When suggesting a new bank, the only information requested is the name of the bank and its URL. Do you want the bank's main URL (e.g. https://www.nationwide.co.uk/) or the actual page where customers login (e.g. https://onlinebanking.nationwide.co.uk/AccessManagement/Login - for most of their bank and savings accounts ) ?

    For some banks, the latter may vary depending on what type of account it is.  For instance, Nationwide also offers 

    Investment Portfolio service https://nationwide.onlineips.co.uk/Logon/Logon.aspx

    Legal and General accounts https://www10.landg.com/SAuthGateWeb/login.html?entryPoint=https:%2F%2Fnationwide.landg.com/portalserver/my-l-and-g-syndicated/index&domain=nationwide

    Personal Finance Portal https://nationwide.mypfp.co.uk/logon?ReturnUrl=%2f

    Like
    • juwlz Sorry I didn't mention the suggestion link before! For financial institutions with multiple logins, it's best to submit the link to the page where you login. You can search YNAB using the URL, so the login URL would be the one that appears in that list. :)

      Like
      • juwlz
      • juwlz
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness  I can happily submit the login page (although as I've already said, there will be multiple login pages for some institutions, so that may be misleading), but I don't understand your comment "You can search YNAB using the URL, so the login URL would be the one that appears in that list. :)"

       

      a) I don't understand what you mean by "search using a URL" - either I'm providing a URL, or I'm searching for the name of a bank (which, by definition, you don't have details for yet), and

      b) if I provide a URL, rather than searching, there won't be a list because I've providing information to YNAB for banks it doesn't yet support.

      Like
    • juwlz Sorry for the confusion! When you add a bank in YNAB, there's a search bar to find your financial institution. Using your bank as an example, you could type in "Nationwide" to see all of the Nationwide options, or you could type in "https://nationwide.onlineips.co.uk/Logon/Logon.aspx" to find just the investment account option. This is done to prevent confusion when banks have multiple logins, so users aren't trying to access their Investment Portfolio accounts through the Personal Finance login or whatever the varying logins may lead to.

      Like
  • Oh this is interesting. I am using First Direct which is a part of HSBC, I believe.  First Direct does not come up but HSBC direct comes up. Are there any chance of this expanding?

    Like
    • Forest Green Colt According to https://developer.hsbc.com/, HSBC currently only support HSBC accounts with private account information still. That said, the first direct iOS app includes functions to revoke Open Banking permissions now so we shouldn’t be far off.

       

      Also, HSBC direct is non-UK. You need to look for HSBC UK in the provider list

      Like 1
    • Martin Porcheron Thanks! I am hopeful!😀

      Like
    • Martin Porcheron  I use first direct at well. Any updates on that support?

      Like
  • I've been on the look out for a replacement service purely for the linked online accounts in the UK. I don't want to go for an inferior product because they have one better feature. Is there any way we can be notified once our banks become available. Mine too is nationwide who have recently come out with an official open banking API.

    Like
  • It’s frustrating YNAB is so slow to adopt this with UK banks and other institutions. Emma etc all have the facility for direct import from Monzo, Nationwide etc, but are not nearly as versatile as YNAB. Importing transactions manually is a real pain and it’s a shame - it would be perfect if this simple facility was available to UK customers.

    Like 3
  • I'm in the same boat, UK integration would make a big difference. My use of YNAB has gotten less and less frequent due to having to do the import. I've not used it in a few months and now the task of importing and adjusting months of transactions is disheartening. Unless I can find the energy to sit down with it I might just cancel before my next renewal in September. It's a shame as YNAB really have given my economy a boost.

    Like 2
    • Hi Slate Blue Camera and Coral Snow !

      Sorry for the inconvenience there! We're hoping to support UK financial institutions in the future, but they've proven difficult for our Direct Import partners to get a grasp on. I can't make any promises, but we're working on improvements to hopefully make this a possibility in the future!

      Like
  • Same here.. I thought the my UK bank ,the cooperative bank, had been added but it didn’t work & when I followed the ynab link it turned out it was a US cooperative bank not the UK one :( really wish direct imports for all UK banks could be supported 

    Like
  • Just to add another +1 for the better integration of UK banks - which would be so helpful.

    I love using YNAB but you guys will have to make sure you get up to speed in this arena as the Open Banking API will start to change the game for the offering of similar services to yours within the UK in the near future. Lots of banks as well as independent FinTechs are working on such products.

    If you miss the boat here I'm almost certain you'll lose a good chunk of your UK customer base. 

    Like 1
  • Faness, 

     

    It is disheartening, but you don't seem to understand. The solution you appear to be giving hope to is not one a UK YNABer would want.

     

    Gaining access to account data in the UK via a users credentials is unethical - you are forcing a user to violate the FCA's rules and their bank's terms of service.

    This means the bank would no longer be responsible for the security of that user's accounting data.

    If you don't clearly state that the solution you are claiming to pursue in this instance is not appropriate for anyone from the UK and that they definitely should not give you their financial log in details then you are doing a disservice to citizens from the UK.

    Like 1
  • 👍 for Open Banking support. My trial's just ended, and without a legitimate feed integration I just can't justify the subs when many alternatives are connecting up for free. I love the YNAB ethos, and unique capabilities, but as a busy family managing money across multiple accounts, the need to enter and categorise every transaction manually is too much of hurdle to justify the time and expense.

    Please bring it soon!

    Like 5
  • Any update comment from YNAB on this? 

    This is not a questionable matter of what is the right or wrong approach, it is very clear. We are all paying subscribers to your service, I've used and supported YNAB since the 4.x days. It is disappointing to see such lack of regard for our concerns and financial interests. 

    Which? have done a write up on OpenBanking and why its API access is far better, more secure and the most desired way of access this information. 

    As   Spring Green Lion has mentioned, others are already beating you to supporting this. The worst part is we don't even see attempts to support this. YNAB is a financial software company, software APIs should be no difficulty for you, especially a financial one. 

    The OpenBanking page lists, along with the Which? article, the apps which are already supporting the API. 

    @YNAB please do let  us know if you ever intend to implement this functionality, or if I should start migrating my budget away today?

    Like 5
    • Spring Green Tugboat Their reply here gives a pretty clear response:

      https://support.youneedabudget.com/t/h4p8m9

      international support isn't in our plans for the immediate future

      It seems to me like they don't care enough about non-US customers, so it's probably time to start looking elsewhere. That's a real shame - I love YNAB, and it's made a real difference to my family's finances. But the landscape is always changing and if they don't keep up it's sadly time to move on.

      Like 1
    • Hi Spring Green Tugboat !

      Thank you for taking the time to put those resources together! We completely understand your point and we agree that open banking allows for a lot of improvement! We are currently looking into different direct import options, but until we have something set in motion we don't want to make any promises. International support isn't in our immediate future, but it is something we're looking into, so while it may come in the distant future we hope you'll take a look if it's available! :)

      Like
    • Faness Thank you for the response. Out of curiosity can you share information on the number of users YNAB has in the US vs the UK? Are we 1%? 10%? 25%?

       

      With your confirmation of YNABs direction, I'm going to investigate and try out other platforms going forward, I have a few months until my YNAB subscription expires. 

      Like 3
    • Spring Green Tugboat Due to privacy concerns, we don't give out that type of company information. We completely understand your decision and we hope we'll be able to win you back in the future!

      We wish you well on your budgeting journey, no matter where it may take you! :)

      Like
    • Faness That is pure BS, there is no privacy concern in saying that 10% of users are UK based. The only reason I can see you wanting to hide this is that it's not a small number, which demonstrates you're not looking after a big chunk of  your customer base. Ridiculous. 

      Like 2
  • I'm a UK user and I was looking at Monzo bank this morning. They are trying to provide very simple budgeting in their service. I truly believe that companies should stick to what they do best. Ynab does budgeting really well, Monzo seems to do banking really well. Why don't you investigate a commercial partnership, they have over 1mil customers, and if they can offer all those a Ynab account using Open Banking support its a win win for everyone. All your UK customers will have a bank that offers Ynab for free/discounted through their bank and Monzo will gain loads of customers and stick to what they do best instead of wasting resources to build a competing product. I for one would drop my bank and switch on a whim for this. Who knows, maybe Monzo would be open to implement the integration for you. On a different subject, I've not read your security policy but I do really hope that you comply with GDPR when asking users for login credentials. If not the fines could cost you far more than implementing open banking API.

    Like
    • Hi Turquoise Cyborg !

      Thank you for taking the time the add in your suggestion! Currently, we don't partner with any financial institutions - that's a bridge we haven't decided to cross yet. We haven't crossed it for a number of reasons, including security concerns and the obstacle of building data aggregation points for individual institutions. However, I do understand the benefits you've pointed out! Would you mind submitting a Feature Request? That let's our development team take a closer look at the idea for future consideration!

      Like
    • Faness You obviously don't understand what an API is and how security works. If you implement support for the Open Banking API with Monzo it will work with all other Banks in the UK, not a single institution as you mentioned. Your point about security is laughable,  as a bank they would be more concerned about your security; You will  be taking sensitive customer data from them, how does that impact your security? If you are somehow concerned about security in the case then I'm a little worried about you keeping my data. I was merely suggesting them as you both could benefit from this. As I said before you can gain 100,000's of customers if they can offer your product as part of their service, and many of your existing customers my consider switching to them as we will get Ynab at a better price or paid for by our bank. Maybe product owners should not get involved in commercial strategy. Also you have not mentioned anything about your GDPR compliance

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    • Turquoise Cyborg I didn't mean to insinuate that security concerns were a one way venture. Currently, we utilize a direct import provider so that we do not handle account information directly (such as account and routing numbers) - we don't want that information to be accessible in YNAB.

      We are compliant with GDPR. Our Privacy Policy offers more details and you can check our security page, as well.

      Like
  • so what's the latest on this all at YNAB.  You promoted a service by a third party which we in the UK could sign up for and pay extra for direct import.  So, it clearly can be done!  What are the timescales for this service please - the number of organisations offering it is growing daily - I just do not understand what the issue is?

    Like 3
    • Tomato Colt  the reality is, they just don't care about their UK market enough. 

      I suggest using Money Dashboard, who I've switched to recently. I'll be cancelling my Ynab membership, despite the budgeting features being not quite as good. 

      Like 1
  • Hi All, any comment on why YNAB  promoted a paid for app "syncforynab" for non US banks instead of it being part of the subscription

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  • Tomato Colt  See Spring Green Lion s comment above. When nYNAB came out, they said they wouldn't reduce the price for international audiences despite us not having any sync support — it was our fault for being British (etc.) and they're being no support by banks. Now it turns out YNAB could provide sync support, but they still doesn't seem to be an effort to reduce the price or offer the support (presumably because it will cost YNAB money)

    There is really only one conclusion: YNAB want international users to subsidise US users experience, and they'll do that by charging both the same for different quality of products.

    Like
  • Faness said:
    Due to privacy concerns, we don't give out that type of company information.

     This is nonsense. Laws only apply to data if people are personally identifiable by the data (e.g. IP address, address, telephone) or it is sensitive or could damage a person if leaked (health, credit card numbers), and so on.

    Aggregate numbers of numbers of people are not personal information, no-one could be identified *unless there is just 1 UK YNAB user, who as publicly identified themselves* (for example). 

    Like
  • I complained about this and asked for a reduced subscription. This is the reply I received

    "I know that the lack of Direct Import support is a big pain-point for our UK YNABers, so thank you for letting us know that is affecting you as well. At this time the issue is that none of our Direct Import partners (we have three) currently support banks outside of the US and Canada, besides just a handful of institutions in the UK. (And even those they don't support well.) Since we don't do Direct Import in-house, we rely on our Direct Import partners to bring your transactions in, and so if it's not an institution they support, we aren't able to support it either.

    (Not that it probably helps, but it's not just UK banks -- we aren't able to support every financial institution inthe US or Canada either.)

    I also wanted you to know a little more about what goes into development decisions like these. Each feature request we receive is given a lot of consideration. The team answers questions like, “How many YNAB’ers will benefit from this?”, “Would it be more impactful than this other feature we’re working on?” and most importantly, “Is it in line with the YNAB Method?” 

    And since we’re a small company, time and capacity do play a big role in these decisions as well. We have limited resources, so we're simply not able to do everything at once, though we are always working to improve."

    Basically, they can't be bothered with the UK market. 

    Meanwhile, I've tested loads of apps and think MoneyHub works best for me, although the budgeting aspect is not as rich as YNAB.  I feel these other apps will catch up fast though. 

    Like
  • Don't want to move from YNAB just feel let down by trumpeting of Direct Import and then it's "except for you over there"  and subscription goes up!  Just having a look at EMMA.  App only at present but web version in Q1 next year and user defined categories by end 2018.  Very simple and quick connection to UK financial institutions via open banking

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  • I appreciate that they need to maximise their impact of dev money - I am in the same position professionally. So perhaps we can try to focus on getting traction with their direct import partners? Do we know who they are? Maybe we can lobby for the one with the best representation in the UK / EMEA markets to support institutions. 

    Like 1
      • Gray Tape
      • Gray_Tape
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Khaki Stallion 

       

      Website says 

      "We partner with Finicity, MX, and Quovo as providers of Direct Import financial data aggregation from institutions, and you can find specifics related to their security policies and practices on the FinicityMX, and Quovowebsites. YNAB does not store your bank credentials, but relies upon our partners and their industry-leading security precautions."

      Like
  • All - as a long time ynab user that like a lot of you has grown frustrated at the lack of UK support, I've been looking at alternatives which until now have been frustrating. However, following a tip off from Gray Tape (thank you!) I've been using Moneyhub recently and I've got to say it's brilliant. Many of the alternative options I've found missing in different ways and although this isn't envelope budgeting it does offer an excellent intuitive experience with good options for budgeting, forecasting and tracking your spending. And the big plus being it's fully open banking compliant, you can put all of your UK accounts into (including mortgages) and it's very automated once you're setup. Really draws your attention to spending habits and budgets without being annoying. I'd strongly recommend it.

    Personally I'll be cancelling ynab before the renewal is up - and I'm relieved to know that there are already, and no doubt will be lots more better alternatives like Moneyhub coming our way, and in the meanwhile I've got a great option which is far more intuive and offers a much better user experience than anything ynab offer. Check them out, be interested to know how you get on with it 

    Like 2
  • Hello all! :)

    I wanted to leave a quick link here to the Community Apps that Work with YNAB. The "Sync for YNAB" option allows for direct import with UK banks! While I know a number of you have shared your disappointment and plans to search for an alternative, I hope you'll give it a try! 

    If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask! :)

    Like
      • Gray Tape
      • Gray_Tape
      • 11 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

      Hi, 

      I do find it incredible that you think the UK customers would want to spend another £30 a year to get functionality that should be a core feature of  your product which already costs nearly £40 a year! 

      As an employee at YNAB, "experts in budgeting", would you advise me to spend £70 a year on this or £10 (for an app like Moneyhub) or even free for other alternatives?  

      I'm sorry but I won't be renewing my subscription as there is clearly still no intention from your product owners to develop YNAB into the slick app users expect for such high subscriptions. 

      Like 2
      • Tomato Colt
      • Tomato_Colt.1
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

      Like
      • Tomato Colt
      • Tomato_Colt.1
      • 11 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Faness I admire your adherence to the company line but please don’t alienate your UK customer base further.   Endorsing paid for 3rd party solutions to deliver a  service we were led to believe would be part of our YNAB subscription is not a sensible tactic.   We are awash with apps of all types using open banking here - none yet offer something I think is as good as YNAB for budgeting.  Please sort it out and don’t force me to move

      Like 1
    • Tomato Colt Gray Tape

      I truly apologize - I wasn't aware of the cost of Sync for YNAB until you mentioned it (and would have worded my initial response at least somewhat differently had I known). While I love the fact a developer took the time to build this app on their own, and I think the capability is an added bonus for UK users, I do understand the apprehension of paying for it additionally.

      While we still hope to someday be able to provide direct import for international institutions, we completely understand your search for alternatives.

      Like
      • D. A.
      • Senior Technical Program Manager
      • D_A
      • 10 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Faness That's a ridiculous comment - what it basically boils down to is "YNAB doesn't care about anyone outside of the US, so clear off".

      I happen to work for a US-based software company that also treated its users outside of the US as second-class citizens, but they've finally cottoned on that if they don't start to pay attention to them, they'll all go running to competitors that *do* actually care about them.

      I, for one, am another customer you will be losing, since there's no point at all in me paying for YNAB when there are superior products out there.

      I would suggest you need to tell your Product Managers to start paying attention to users' needs, otherwise they'll soon have none left.

      Like 2
      • Tomato Colt
      • Tomato_Colt.1
      • 10 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      D. A. Honestly, I love YNAB and really do not want to move away.  That said I am trying out Moneyhub and then  Emma over the next couple of months after which I shall cancel my YNAB subscription unless this is resolved. It's a real shame as Ive been with YNAB for several years but am so annoyed at the way we are simply directed to pay for a 3rd party plug in to deliver what we were told YNAB would.  Faness  has YNAB approached Teller or Truelayer to facilitate direct import?

      Like 1
    • Tomato Colt I hear you. Also been with ynab for several years. Total convert. But like you I'm on Moneyhub now and I haven't looked back. I don't think its a replacement but it's just £1 per month helps loads with financial picture and budgeting, and the big one, it doesn't require a huge amount of time to manage as they support the UK.

      Moneyhub may not offer the envelope budgeting of ynab but they do have a great app and plenty of other features that go far beyond. And they're listening to customers in the UK and improving all the time. 

      I hope it works out for you. Let me know how you get on. 

      Like 1
  • I've decided not too renew my YNAB sub this year. I do love it as a system etc, but lack of direct import and multi currency support  - and the cost - has made me question if there are other, newer kids on the block that could provide what I need.

    Am interested to hear how moneyhub and Emma are working for people.

    I downloaded Emma, but got a bit spooked by it's use of facebook's tech as a way of creating your account. I read facebook's FAQ on their use of the data provided and it's way too vague (surprise surprise!)

    Like 1
  • I have started using Moneyhub and it looks like they do have some form of budgeting. For £1 a month and the UK Open Banking support I dont think I'll renew my YNAB sub either next time round. What I do like is the idea that you can set budgets and they will send you notifications when you're approaching limits etc all automatically based on your linked accounts. I dont ever use cash and after having travelled to the US I think our cashless behaviour is way more normal than what I experienced in the US. I use my cards everywhere even for purchases below £1 and the best of all is everything is logged on my statements.

    Like
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