OMG why. We're just trying to help.

This morning I woke up to 25 new transactions downloaded, which is absurd. I discovered that YNAB had duplicated every single transaction from checking since 9/15, which included my mortgage, 3 credit card payments, and a hefty transfer of a bonus I recently received to savings. Between these things, it put my budget several months of income out of square. 

Nevertheless, I contacted support and said, "Hey, look, I don't need your help getting this back in shape. But someone ought to know what happened here, and I don't want to set all these transactions straight until someone has a chance to look at my budget and discern what went wrong." 

Nevermind that I had to talk down two different people that I did not need help getting the budget figured out, and that all I was trying to do was give the developers the  info before I removed all those transactions. 

Finally, a YNAB rep said, "Yep! It's fine! We have your budget!" So I dealt with the duplicates and set my budget back in order--since it was about 25% of my total budget. 

Well now, I heard from the bug team. "Well, it looks like you fixed it, so we can't help! Sorry!" 

What the even. I explicitly explained that I needed my budget fixed ASAP but that I would leave it alone until the team had the power to investigate the problem. And yet, I was told it was okay to fix it before it was really okay to fix it. Honestly, I used to be YNAB's biggest supporter, defending the new software at cost to my personal relationships with other YNABers. And then this new wave of support reps appeared. Why would person A say "Yep it's fine, go ahead and fix your budget!" if the actual person who needs the data needs the broken budget. 

Your support tiers SUCK for users who aren't complete novices. I have been so disheartened by my encounters with the front line support reps, most of whom I am positive have far less experience using YNAB than I do. I get reprimanded for being sharp out of the gate, but it's hard not to be when you know that you're reporting some deep problem and that the answer you're going to get is ":smiley smiley: have you tried deleting and reinstalling the app???" Yes, I have already done all the basic troubleshooting steps because I know what I'm doing and I'm trying to help you. Stop putting people who don't know what's going on on the front lines. Or at least, give them the ability to escalate immediately. I realize that the lowest common denominator with YNAB now is people who can't figure out what an outflow vs. an inflow is, but some of us actually have a good deal of experience at this software. Stop fielding those questions to front line people who have next to no experience. This is aggravating to the nth degree. And more importantly, it also means that now there's no data for YNAB to figure out what went wrong, so that the teams can figure out what to do differently going forward. That's an insane way to do business. 

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  • That’s frustrating. You’re going out of your way to try to help them fix their bug but they don’t get it. It makes it appear that the company isn’t interested in fixing the root issues and would rather just deal with fixing the symptoms.

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  • WordTenor Sorry for the frustration this caused! I don't want to make excuses but I do want to offer an explanation. It looks like this issue was reported as a bug first, and that bug report was sent straight to our Bugs Team (so support didn't see it). Bugs are active things affecting the YNAB programming while import issues are just about anything involving your bank.

    To be clear, this is an import issue. When duplicates import, it's because the file received from the import partner changed and YNAB no longer recognizes them as the same previously imported transactions and thus re-imports them. In these cases, we have to reach out to the import partner to let them know duplicates are importing and they fix things on their end.

    The support rep you spoke to did report this to our import partner, which was the right thing to do here. Our Bugs Team wouldn't have been able to fix the issue even if the duplicates were still in the budget and that wasn't made clear.

    I'm sorry for the misunderstanding! 

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  • Faness Then tickets need to be cross-referenced. You can obviously take a post on the forum and cross reference to the my account, so why can’t two people who are looking at the tickets figure that out? Also these are both bugs; it’s just that one is  bug in your software and one is a bug in the import partner’s, so unless there is a frontline distinction made for the person submitting the issue, there wouldn’t be any reason for me to distinguish between the two. 

    It always cracks me up when I see people on reddit or FB crowing about how amazing YNAB’s customer service reps are. As long as the questions are limited to “How does my credit card work?” or “How do I add an account?” and the stuff that gets asked there I’m sure it’s great. The second we’re at a level of “Look, if I’m emailing you, something is massively wrong” the experience is downright awful. When you’re not new at this, the overly cheery customer service scripts read as condescending rather than reassuring and it doesn’t seem like the reps have any autonomy to behave otherwise. 

    Hopefully over time the nYoobs will become advanced users. Having support reps who are ready to deal with advanced users will make that experience better for them. 

    Like 1
    • WordTenor Based on your post, I went looking for two separate reports. It took me a moment to find the bug report, which is something we're working on improving on our end. 

      We try to make the distinction clear in the Bug Report and the Bank Importing Issue form and based on the answers given in those forms the report is routed correctly. However, since this issue was reported through two different platforms, the connection was missed. 

      Superbone mentioned trying to fix symptoms instead of root issues, but it's easier for us to identify what the root issues are when given the symptoms. We'll work on better navigating this in the future.

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      • WordTenor
      • I have the honor to be your obedient servant
      • WordTenor
      • 10 days ago
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      Faness Both were reported through the help from my budget (HubSpot, I suspect?), but via two different apps (ios and web). I know the forms are basically black holes, so I didn't submit a form because I needed to fix my budget ASAP as the duplicates sent it over 25% off-kilter--I had categories and accounts which were thousands of dollars out of whack. So expecting submission of a Google form with the promise of an email back never was not going to fly. 

      My interactions with support, here and privately, have always been far beyond subpar. It started with the nastygram that got sent during censorgate 2017 and has continued to this day. Like I said, I'm sure that the cheerful "Don't worry; we'll help you fix your budget!" is very useful to newbies who are new to managing money and trying to figure out the software, and I realize from interacting on FB and reddit that those people make up the bulk of your customer base. But in my experience as someone who knows a good bit about the various things at work and who is trying to help make YNAB better at every turn, it's downright offensive, frustrating, and makes me, a very loyal customer, want to jump ship the moment a decent competitor appears in this space. 

      Like 3
    • WordTenor I know the forms have gotten a bad rep from the forum, but they go directly to the teams best equipped to solve the issue at hand. We updated them a while ago so that everyone who submits them gets a response. Though this wasn't a bug, submitting the form yesterday would've gotten you a faster response (not faster than chat, but faster than the message submitted via iOS) and helped to correctly route the issue. 

      As someone who's been using this forum since it was created, you've seen first hand the changes this forum has gone through. We recognize you as a long-time user and we know you want to help, but so do we. "We'll help you fix your budget!" isn't meant to say you can't fix it yourself, but there are some things we wouldn't expect you to know unless you've dealt with the issue before. For instance, reconciling should prevent those duplicates from re-re-importing until we hear back from our import partner and File Based Importing should bypass the duplicates in the same way. While we are more than happy to walk a YNABer through support step-by-step, we can also take a hands-off approach that just includes helpful tips while we work on a fix.

      We understand that you are more than capable and you've assisted a large number of YNABers because of that. You are appreciated. We don't mean to come off as offensive or frustrate you in your attempts of goodwill. This wasn't handled as best as it could have been and we have changes planned to help prevent situations like these in the future. I hope someday we'll be able to change your opinion on support, but I understand that won't be today.

      Like 1
  • I feel your pain. Not in respect of YNAB as my experience has not been the same as yours but in the world in general.  I try to provide them help and feedback.  My new mantra is "Its not my job to fix the world". 

    Example of me just trying to help

    The most recent was at IKEA where I was told that I could get the item delivered and I am in zone 1 so the cost is $50. Paid for the item and then went to delivery counter with the huge item on 2 dollies and was told that they couldn't deliver it. This while standing under a huge infograph map that said "can't take it with you today? We can deliver it for you". So then they said they could deliver to Mississauga (where my husband's company has a warehouse) and that worked because we could go on the weekend with son's truck and pick it up.  Gave them the postal code and gee, that is the one pocket where they DON'T deliver to Mississauga. In the end,  I eventually had to arrange hubby to get a u-haul truck and all that entails. 

    I asked to speak to the manager (not in a Karen way) and explained that at their next management meeting she should bring up this issue because clearly the staff in the other department (where by the way the same infograph is displayed) that delivery is NOT possible. She looked at me like I was a nutbar.  Sorry, just trying to help improve the customer experience for others and avoid long complicated interactions with your staff. 

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