New Yearly Subscription Fee is Doubled!

Hi Everyone, 

I have 5 days left of my trial... I've been really liking the program. Received an email to subscribe. I'm ready to subscribe... Then I find out the prices have changed. It has doubled. My friend talked me into this program, she said she loves it and its only $45. for the past two years she has paid the $45 renewal. 

I sent a message to the support team asking about the fee. They told me the price went up Nov. 2017. Does this mean that anyone that started prior to that date is automatically married into that amount?

I really don't like what the email said about "We increased the price back in November 2017 because we know YNAB is worth the value it provides. On average, new budgeters save $600 by month two and more than $6,000 the first year!" 

That really is taking advantage of us, assuming we are all hunky dory with our finances. I know Im not there yet!.

Thanks for listening. 

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  • I am not unsympathetic to you because I agree that it is very expensive and I wouldn't be willing to pay that price. However, the $84/year is clearly stated on the website, so they aren't trying to hide the fact that this is what they charge. If you have an iPhone, you can subscribe on a monthly basis (about $7) which can give you time to save up for a lump sum of $84 at a future point in time. It's the exact same subscription - you can access on your phone, computer, or tablet.

    Reply Like 2
  • This is true, I did see that, but I thought I would be getting the same special that my friend had, she referred me. I guess I'm not so special. I'm just having a difficult time paying that cost. :)

    Reply Like
  • Hey  YNAB_puppup You are correct that early adopters were grandfathered into the price that they were paying, but all new subscriptions are at the $83.99/year price. Since your friend referred you, you both do receive a free month added on to your subscription, so you'll get a free month there, too.

     

    Let me know if you have any other questions! 

    Reply Like 3
      • Technicolor Cheetah
      • Not sure when I became a cheetah...but I'll run with it
      • technicolor_cheetah
      • 9 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Chrissy 

      But that's not entirely accurate.  Only some people get a free month for referring and being referred.  People who pay month by month through iTunes can't.  If YNAB_puppup uses iTunes at the end of their trial to pay for the subscription, they won't get the free month unless you will extend the free trial out another month.  

      Reply Like 1
    • Technicolor Cheetah You're right - we aren't able to adjust subscriptions created through iTunes. However, if a user cancels through iTunes we can switch their account to be through us instead and then offer the extension. :)

      It looks like that isn't an issue here, but it's good to note for anyone else who may stumble across this thread.

      Reply Like 2
      • YNAB_puppup
      • Steel_Blue_Sloth.4
      • 8 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Technicolor Cheetah  So, you're saying if i sign up with iTunes i can avoid paying the full year at once? 

      Reply Like 1
      • Ben
      • Toolkit for YNAB Designer & Developer
      • furiousfalcon
      • 8 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      YNAB_puppup As far as I understand it, yes, if you sign up via iTunes you can pay monthly. The only limitation/difference between that and signing up directly through YNAB is that the referral program (a free month whenever signs up using your code) isn't available to iTunes users because YNAB can't change the subscription pricing there.

      Reply Like 1
      • Technicolor Cheetah
      • Not sure when I became a cheetah...but I'll run with it
      • technicolor_cheetah
      • 8 days ago
      • Reported - view

      YNAB_puppup 

      As I understand it, yes.  So if you have lots of friends you might refer, pay month by month through iTunes until you can save up the full year, change how you pay for your subscription is paid for, pay for the full year, and then you will have a referral code to give people.  I've been told, I'm still trialling for another two weeks.

      If you go the iTunes route, you can sometimes find iTunes cards for less than face value.  Costco has them around Christmas for up to 15% off.  I've seen through a cursory internet search that occasionally other stores have sales on iTunes gift cards.  I myself traded in rewards points from one of my credit cards for a gift card, maybe that's an option for some of you.  So for 4000 reward points, I got a $50 iTunes gift card.  That will pay for about 7 months of iTunes if I can get it to work (I am iTunes inept).  

      Reply Like
  • Wow. That is bad.

    I am also just about ready to subscribe and I have budgeted enough this month to cover the subscription fee as it was when I started my trial ($64/yr).

    However this price increase is going to break my budget for this month.

    I am really disappointed that YNAB didn't make this more obvious to those of us on trial periods. A quick "Subscribe Now! we will be increasing our prices on ...." email wouldn't have been that hard to send out, and I'm sure would have generated a quick influx of cash for the business as people subscribe to avoid the price increase.

    I can understand why the price increase wasn't widely advertised as it looks bad on YNAB, but for a product that is about being able to manage your money, this leaves a really sour taste in the mouth, and I'm now going to be looking at the prices of your competitors.

    Reply Like 1
      • YNAB_puppup
      • Steel_Blue_Sloth.4
      • 8 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Major Agreed, same thing with me.  A heads up would've been nice.

      Reply Like
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 8 days ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Major Wait a minute.  What price increase are you talking about?  How long of a trial did you get?  I started in January, and very clearly saw the $84 price when I first started the trial offer.  That was part of my decision process before even signing up for the free trial.  Did I miss something?  where was it advertised at $64?

      I just looked in the FAQ and it says:

      My Mom/Friend/Partner/Brother/Co-Worker Has Been Meaning To Sign-Up For YNAB. Can They Still Get The Old Price?

      If they signed-up for a trial before November 15, 2017, they will keep the previous price. All new customers who sign-up for YNAB after November 15, 2017 will be billed at the new price.

      _______________________________________

      So are you saying you've had a 2 year free trial?  

      Reply Like 5
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 8 days ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Major I don't recall it ever being $64/year. When it was first launched it was $50/yr or $5/mo (eventually they took away the monthly option). In November of 2017 it was raised to the current price. The $45/yr was for users of YNAB 4 who locked in a discount by upgrading at a certain time (it was a 10% discount on the $50/yr).

      Reply Like 7
    • Turquoise Major Our price has been $83.99 in USD since November 2017, and anyone who had a trial or subscription at that time was grandfathered in. Since your trial didn't start until February of 2019, the only price that would have been listed/advertised would have been the $83.99 price, which is the price all new users pay.  We do charge in USD, but there was never a $64/year price--though if  you're international, perhaps you were looking at it with an exchange rate? 

      Reply Like 4
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 8 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Major So, how long will it take you to save up the extra twenty bucks? Maybe contact support and ask them to extend your trial by a month or two?

      Reply Like
      • Technicolor Cheetah
      • Not sure when I became a cheetah...but I'll run with it
      • technicolor_cheetah
      • 8 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Major YNAB_puppup

      I got a two month extension on top of the 34 days by writing into support and mentioning I'd read Alex Tran's recommendation and also saw this page on the YNAB site.  If you ask nicely, they may do give you three months total trial.  I know that one month wasn't long enough for me but I was sold by about 6 weeks in.  

      Reply Like 1
    • Bruce jenmas Chrissy

      My sincere apologies... Yes I am from across the pond, and I'd got the $64 amount from converting $84 to GBP, which is currently £64 and a few pence. Hence I'd budgeted £70 to cover exchange rate fees (which won't be that much, and certainly won't be more than that), so it's all good.

      Apologies, the original post panicked me and I didn't think straight!

      Reply Like 3
    • Turquoise Major Oh no worries at all! I wanted to make sure you didn't think we would change the price on you mid-trial without an announcement. Any price change we'd make (just like the last time) would be announced with a clear notice. We'd want you to be able to budget for it!  

      Reply Like 1
  • Wow reading this thread its almost kinda depressing how much the price jumped, that was before I stared so I never knew it was that low of a price.  I did kinda feel that $83/yr was is bit steep, i'm on a 90 day trial right now but I'm not sold on it being worth the price yet, I would say if I had to price it, I would think $60/yr seems more reasonable but I kinda feel that the current price is a bit much for it.

    Admittedly I am also kinda miffed that tere has been some featured degradation from ynab for that at some point in the past ynab has flat out said those features wont return (income for next month and red arrow) and this long lasting bug with stealing from the future.  Also it seems other that other feature requests seem to just be plain ignored reading back, and looking at the release notes it seems new features are few and far between.  So that doesn't help my impression of things here...the hard part is I don't know of any suitable alternative...and I think ynab knows that and that has emboldened them to over-charge and under-deliver.

    Reply Like 3
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 8 days ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Slate Blue Sander I am in a similar boat. I am on the multi month trial. There are aspects I like but other aspects that concern me. Being that I am looking for a long term investment (aka, SaaS budgeting kind of locks you into YNAB yearly subscription) I am becoming more and more concerned.

      I have been spending a lot of time reading posts, new and old. There are way more "Hey, go ahead and create a Feature Request" posts than "Oh, that was already implemented!". In addition to that, there are more "This has been requested for years" posts than "this was already discussed and decided as not beneficial. Please see this thread".

      It feels that there really is this black hole problem with "Feature Requests". This leaves me with the question of whether I am happy with where this app is at right now. 

      • Am I okay that my investment accounts dont import correctly?
      • Am I okay with how future transactions are handled?
      • Am I okay that stealing from the future remains hidden until I switch to the next month to find out I am screwed
      • etc

      The one aspect that keeps confuses me is where are the Product Managers in all of this? Why are feature requests going straight to development to decide of their importance? Maybe get the developers online to read these different posts? Feels like a black hole with "Support says create feature request", "Support stresses to development that feature X is important", "Developer Y feels that would be hard... thus not important".... Feature goes no where? 

      Obviously this feels like a really negative perspective and I apologize if I have an oversimplified view of how YNAB works. I am just not sure or understand how a request really gets from "Feature Request->Implemented".

      Reply Like 5
    • RIP_MSMoney I wanted to leave a bit more information here to hopefully help clarify!

      When you submit a feature request, it goes directly to our development team. That information is coded based on different aspects and used to help us decide What’s Up Next for YNAB.

      As we make these decisions, we consider how many users would benefit from this, what impact it might have on other features we have in development, and most importantly how it lines up with the YNAB method. 

      Our development team are like our Product Managers. It's a group decision on what features or updates should be tackled next and it's done so in cycles. If a feature is too big for one cycle to complete, it may be broken down into smaller pieces to be handled over time. This is why sending these feature requests directly to our development team, who ultimately decide on which projects to tackle during each cycle, is the best approach.

      We're working on a way to make this process clearer and we're sorry for the "Black Hole" feeling at the moment!

      Reply Like
      • Agent99
      • Working to Get Smart at budgeting, finances and life
      • Agent99.1
      • 7 days ago
      • 13
      • Reported - view

      Faness Thanks for this information. Here's something to pass on to Jesse, Taylor, et.al. You all NEED Product Managers. Developers SHOULD NOT be determining the priority of features to be improved, added to the product. You need someone who understands the business and financial service product world, someone who keeps an eye on the marketplace and customer desires and trends. That role needs to set the priority. No shade to developers; I work with many and am married to one, but most do not have the same mindset as a Product Manager/Business Analyst, who should be an advocate for the product and the customer. I say this as someone with nearly 30 years of IT experience, mostly in the financial services industry. YNABs long term success, IMHO, depends on having this advocacy role. A product, to improve your financial well-being, cannot charge amounts inching towards $100 a year and not have regular customer-focused improvements.

      Reply Like 13
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 7 days ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      Agent99 I agree and I'm a developer. There is a difference between:

      1. What are the top priorities based off of customer demands/desires
      2. What the customer really wants vs what the customer asked for
      3. What provides most bang for the buck

      I get heavily involved with #2 and sometimes interact with the customer directly in order to ensure they get exactly what they are desiring (Always reminds me of this picture).

      I also get heavily involved with the PM/PMM for #3 to align what of those top priorities can get accomplished in X time. While it might be the case that Feature #1 is the top priority but it could also be case that we could accomplish Feature #2-#6 in the same amount of time. Which is most important to the most amount of customers? After we come to an agreement, it becomes the PM/PMM's job to relay this info to the customer and update the roadmap.

      As for number #1, the PM/PMM is responsible for holding the Focus Groups, etc to determine the roadmap of what should be coming next, when the next release is, etc. They are also responsible for communicating to the customer what that roadmap is (especially if things start to change). I feel that this is what YNAB is severely lacking. It sounds like, to me, this is where the black hole is coming from.

      Reply Like 8
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 7 days ago
      • 14
      • Reported - view

      I'll jump on the "me too" bandwagon here. Product Management by a committee of developers is the worst kind of product management (says a Solutions Architect and developer for ecommerce). There should be a single Product Manager/Owner to maintain the vision and set priorities based on customer and business needs.

      In the absence of external forces setting priorities, a developer tends to choose either what's easy or what they see as most interesting to develop, regardless of the business or the owners. I fall into that trap all the time when given a large list of tasks with no internal priority sort. As a result, we're getting Alexa, Zapier, Apple Watch and the API when most customers won't ever need any of that stuff.

      Why hasn't there been a new goal added in 3+ years? You'd think even that would have been an easy win. The most common requests have been 1) Monthly Funding Goal with Cap, and 2) Funding Amount by Date that allows you to spend prior to the target date. Instead, the biggest change to goals was a grammar correction.

      Reply Like 14
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 7 days ago
      • 9
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

      Faness said:
      We're working on a way to make this process clearer and we're sorry for the "Black Hole" feeling at the moment!

       It's been a black hole for the 16 months I've been actively using nYNAB.  Support response and program changes indicate that whoever is making the changes doesn't understand budgeting, has a priority of making budgeting possible for people who are very broke and just starting out, and doesn't give a fat rat's a** about how making everything designed for someone who is broke mandatory might be an ongoing problem for people who are no longer broke.  This particularly shows up in conversations like this:

      Users:  Please give us this feature that will help us prevent problems.  And fix this bug that is annoying.

      Support:  We don't want to do that.  But we have a warning for after you've created a problem, so you can fix it!  And here's a workaround to fix the bug that we don't want to admit is a bug, one transaction at a time!

      I've seen that conversation far too many times on this forum.

      Tell Jesse that One Size Does Not Fit All.  The product seriously needs an owner who will think about how customer needs change when people move from scrambling to find dollars to pay a bill that's due today, to actually being a month ahead, to being more than a month ahead and needing to think about more than budgeting groceries infinitely far into the future.

      There will always be a vast majority of people who are broke.  That doesn't mean the program should assume they will always be broke.  Sadly, the way the current program functions seems to make that assumption; many of the problems that long term YNAB users yell about simply aren't problems to people who never get a full month ahead.

      Reply Like 9
    • Our developers aren't making decisions on their own, but they are a huge part of the process. When I say Development Team, I'm referring to not just our developers, but our CPO - Chief Product Officer - other executives, and UI and UX researchers and designers. They're the ones that go over the feature requests and analyze how best to move forward. The process is a group decision and getting ideas in front of that team is where everything starts. 

      We want to be more transparent about that process when using the feature request form. While there are some things we don't want to do (like bring back the Red Arrow), that doesn't mean we don't want to improve that aspect of YNAB (ie. reimbursements). We're looking into ways to better communicate our current undertakings and progress through the forum. 

      Reply Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 days ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      Faness Developers shouldn't be part of the decision making process at all. They are the people whose job it is to execute the decisions, not help set the priorities. Their self-interest is often at odds with the decision making process since they are the ones who have to do the work, and it can improperly influence the process in the best interest of the developer rather than the best interest of the product.

      I think we can all understand why the Red Arrow isn't coming back when we take a step back to look at it, but why haven't new goals been added in 3 years?

      Why hasn't a satisfactory Stealing From the Future fix been released in 3.5 years of talking about the product?

      Why aren't the UI/UX researchers spending more time defending the customers who want things more obvious rather than stuffed in the Inspector area?

      Why isn't anyone contacting the experienced budgeters who make suggestions to better understand the ideas being suggested and how they would like to see them implemented? (My take is they don't understand the suggestions so they just get ignored)

      Finally, why are so many of the new features that are being released designed for such a limited audience when so many of the feature requests commonly asked around here would benefit the majority of customers?

      Reply Like 8
    • nolesrule I think it's also important to note that our design team has grown significantly in the last 6-12 months, as has our developer team. In fact, we're also in the process of hiring another product designer so that we can continue to add new features into the software. 

      Our developers are important in helping us make decisions because they have the best understanding of what a new change would take in terms of time and effort, but also how it would affect other aspects of YNAB as well. Each project that we work on is assigned a cross-functional team of designers, developers, product experts and support team members. 

      As Faness as mentioned, both Stealing From the Future and improvements to goals are projects in progress.

      Our designers also review all pieces of feedback and if they have any additional questions or need clarification, they reach out to users who have submitted the feedback to better understand their requests--they process feedback on a daily basis and categorize it to help them determine top requests across all of our platforms. 

      I hope this helps clarify things a bit! 

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 5 days ago
      • 9
      • Reported - view

      Chrissy The product soft launched in mid-November 2015. It is now mid April 2019.

      Stealing From the Future should have been resolved years ago. It's a major enough issue that the product never should have launched with it in the first place. Yest here we are.

      New goals should have been added years ago. There have been a handful of repeatedly requested additional goal types. Yet in 3 years, not one new goal has been added. But at least they fixed some grammar in the text.

      All of the "I didn't know the customers actually would want to keep that functionality from YNAB4  because I didn't bother to survey a proper cross-section of users to determine what they find necessary" functionality should have been added years ago. Running balance, check number field (which actually was implemented and then dropped and hidden, but works). Income for Next Month (which by the way would have gone a long way toward fixing SFTF). Various screen customization options to improve usability.... you know, all the stuff that the Toolkit does... which, BTW, makes me wonder what the designers and UI/UX people have actually been doing. (Notice I didn't include Red Arrow or Future Dated transactions... I'm leaving out the semi-controversial Feature Requests from this topic).

      Where's all the stuff that when I was told they didn't need me for the closed beta after being invited to participate because of my expertise, I was told it was because "it's not ready for you yet." Well, it's still not ready for me yet.

      So what exactly have they been prioritizing for the last 3.5 years? All sorts of features that are basically "proof of concept", with little focus on making the core product as solid as it can be (and I don't mean wasting time maintaining Direct Import stability).

      And sometimes they fix things in a way no one wanted. When people complained there was too much yellow and it was causing information overload, they added the icons. Great. Is it helpful? Not really sure. The color is still yellow, and that's still what people will notice. But what I've been told is they only made the change to the web app, so mobile users are still in the original boat. And everyone still has yellow overload.

      That's great that you've added new designers and developers. That doesn't address the weak product ownership that is preventing the things customers need (or really really want) from getting worked on in a timely manner, while the deliverables are a stream of proof of concept items that have limited appeal to the product's broad core audience. Adding more designers and developers could just as easily mean we'll just get a larger quantity of the same crap.

      Reply Like 9
    • nolesrule We appreciate how much you care about YNAB, and it shows in how much you've advocated for its growth and improvement. We've released a number of features since launch, but I understand you feel we should have prioritized some before others. Admittedly, larger projects take longer - not just execution, but ironing out and confirming details. This isn't our first attempt at fixing SFTF (and, based on the beta results, it won't be our last), but we understand it needs to be addressed. We are continuously working on improvements and I'm sorry the time frame for the features you've requested has been less than impressive.

      I wanted to bring attention to the, "sometimes they fix things in a way no one wanted" part. I try to push the Feature Request form and ask for details as much as possible to avoid this point. In the given example, the most common request was to distinguish credit card overspending from goals. The option to change the color wasn't mentioned as often, so we created a distinction without a color change.

      We are listening and we have plans in place for Goals and Stealing From The Future. We're going to continue to work on improving and I hope you'll like them once they're finished. :)

      Reply Like 2
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 4 days ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

      Faness said:
      I try to push the Feature Request form and ask for details as much as possible to avoid this point. In the given example, the most common request was to distinguish credit card overspending from goals. The option to change the color wasn't mentioned as often, so we created a distinction without a color change.

       First of all, the Feature Request form is a new process. You've had email as well as in-app feedback from launch. If something wasn't clear or more detail was desired, I'm absolutely certain the user would have been happy to elaborate.

      Specific to the yellow confusion, what was requested was a way to distinguish CC overspending from goals because they look too similar. That is the requirement or the underlying need. It's the job of your design team to translate to something that prevents confusion. 

      Did they even run the idea by the users that had made the suggestion? (I doubt it, since I certainly wasn't contacted.) Prototype design with buy-in from relevant stakeholders -- i.e., USERS. That's how good software is written.

      Reply Like 3
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 4 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Faness If they had 1) listened to the feedback of experienced users that were allowed to participated in the closed beta (or better yet communicated with them during the development of the functional and technical specs stage of the project), and 2) were not in such a rush to meet an arbitrary deadline for release we wouldn't still be talking about these things as they would have been addressed earlier in the initial development cycle and wouldn't be so difficult to fix.

      But it still baffles me that no new goals have been added in 3+ years, regardless of thedifficulties implementing other changes.

       

      Faness said:
      In the given example, the most common request was to distinguish credit card overspending from goals. The option to change the color wasn't mentioned as often, so we created a distinction without a color change.

      "[W]asn't mentioned as often" means it was mentioned. If it was mentioned, it should have been considered a solution. The icons aren't necessarily a bad idea, but sometimes people don't always explain the need for the request, so you have to dig into the root of the problem.  It doesn't solve the primary issue which is actually overuse of yellow, and people start tuning it out due to warning fatigue. Credit card overspending, unmet goal, underfunded based on scheduled transactions are all yellow.

      If people start getting the warning fatigue from the color, they aren't going to look at the icon. Afterall, a category could switch reasons for being yellow. You go most of the month where it's an underfunded goal you're going to stop looking at it. Then you make a small spend in the category and now maybe it's switched from underfunded goal to underfunded based on scheduled transaction. And then a scheduled transaction hits the register (spent on a credit card) and causes overspending in the category. The only thing that's changed is the icon. So you just overlook it, because you've spent all month staring at a yellow underfunded goal. And for people budgeting by paycheck and using monthly funding goals, there will be a heck of a lot of yellow most of the month.

      Root cause of a request is key to solutioning it properly instead of using a band-aid too small to help stop the bleeding.

      Reply Like 2
    • dakinemaui Yes, the feature request form is a new process, and I try to push having it submitted so that forum suggestions and ideas aren't lost. I also try to gather details if anything isn't clear. Currently, if you write in to support with a feature request, we can respond with any questions or a confirmation. The feature request form is coded, so if anything needs further clarification, it will come at a much later point - it's great when that clarification is already spelled out in a thread.

      You mentioned that CC overspending and goals "look too similar", the icons were our way of making them visually different. I only meant to give a small example to say we want to hear as much feedback as you'll share - whether that's here or through support. :)

      We do have beta testers that receive new features in advance to provide feedback. We're currently not looking for new beta testers, but we value the ones we have and listen to the feedback they send in. 

      nolesrule I understand your frustration and I'm sorry you didn't feel heard back then. We're working to fix that issue and add more features. Thank you for the feedback on the icons feature! That's a great review of its shortcomings and how we could improve. We want to find not just band-aids, but solutions, and we're going to keep trying! :)

      Reply Like
  • Unpopular opinion that I'm sure the catch H#ll for...

    Or you all that are complaining could find a product that works for you at a price that works for you. Whoever, designed this website and process did so with a vision in mind and are following that vision. Trying to tell someone how to make their idea what may be better for you, may not be what they envision. 

     

    Fire away. 

    Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 7 days ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      There isn't anything better, or all us "complainers" would have jumped ship by now. The thing is, as customers we feel it could be so much better than it is, but they are putting their development priorities in the wrong place by allowing the developers to set the priorities. Developers will always choose to do what interests them the most rather than prioritizing what's best for the customer, because it's their job and they want it to be fun.

      Reply Like 8
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 7 days ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Stacy C 

      I'm glad you feel that way.  YNAB needs lots of customers like you in order to survive, and if YNAB didn't survive I'd need to find a less convenient budget solution. 

      YNAB's attitude with respect to bug fixing (long standing bugs papered over with BS explanations that they're intended functionality), putting clear information on the budget screen (YNAB wants us to click the inspector, one category at a time), Feature Requests (user requests go into a black hole, developers work on stuff no one requested) makes me fear that this will not be a stable platform long-term.

      People like you give me hope that it just may last several years.  But I'll still be paying license fees for any alternative that looks like I might be able to make it work, just as a contingency plan for YNAB's aim being poor when it tries to shoot itself in the foot and it ends up hitting something more vital.

      Reply Like 5
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 7 days ago
      • 9
      • Reported - view

      Stacy C Many of us have seen the vision. The previous version of YNAB was a standalone app called YNAB4, which was the culmination of many years of usability improvements. When (current) YNAB came out, it was very feature incomplete (e.g., no reports) since the desire -- in YNAB's words -- was a "minimum viable product". The subscription model promised rapid updates and feature additions -- also their words.

      I'm NOT saying I want an online version of YNAB4 -- there have been a number of improvements to the design, after all. But we've seen a taste of functionality that would solve some of the issues present today. 

      Many of us have spent major amounts of time and energy with bug reports, feedback, and community help. We know the issues that confuse both beginner and seasoned user. We know the issues that chafe those with a tight budget and those who are quite well off.

      What would be nice is for the various issues that repeatedly come up on these support sites (here, reddit, Facebook, etc.) to be addressed. Stealing From The Future, for example, was reported BEFORE LAUNCH in Jan 2016! It's still confusing people today because development priorities are off in the weeds.

      Reply Like 9
      • Agent99
      • Working to Get Smart at budgeting, finances and life
      • Agent99.1
      • 6 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule  You got it!  Hence Zapier and API integration.

      Reply Like 2
      • Agent99
      • Working to Get Smart at budgeting, finances and life
      • Agent99.1
      • 6 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui Actually I would have been VERY HAPPY with an online version of YNAB 4 with some UI and functionality enhancements (e.g., goals) aka YNAB 5.

      Reply Like 1
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 6 days ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Agent99 My preference would have been to expose a CC payment category (which they did, and is  the most significant improvement, IMO) while retaining the constant post-payment balance behavior (which they didn't). The latter is a better fit when not increasing debt, which is hopefully the vast majority of users very soon after starting to use the tool. Then add some goals -- including some whose calculations can't be done in your head (e.g., multi-outflow throughout the year for Birthdays). Then direct import, Then offline cached operation. Bam, YNAB5 roadmap right there.

      They really went out of their way to differentiate the two types of spending, which really isn't necessary if you're following Rule 3. If you want to finance something, just cover the overspending from the CC Payment category. Again, that should be the exception. Making things tedious for the "normal" case is a disheartening approach.

      Reply Like 4
    • Agent99 I get what you are saying but I actually am glad they have an API, I see that as a chance to fix some of what is wrong with ynab myself. I just wish it did more like full write access would be nice...

      Reply Like
    • Stacy C I don't see it as complaining. I see it as here are some shortcomings that need to be addressed.  There is a lot the ynab does right, only budgeting money you have versus guessing your income at the beginning of the month like every dollar annoying does, carrying category balances over each month without having to toggle a field, again like every dollar.

      My point is ynab is by far the best option I have found, but there is a lot of room for improvement still, but the product seems too stagnant.  Look back on the release notes, lots and lots of bug fixes, which is good, but new features are few and far between, and major bugs (SFTF) haven been taking way too long to address, as others who have been around since the transition from ynab 4 to the online version have pointed out SFTF isn't anything new.

      I trialed ynab 4 back in 2014, I never bought it because I wasn't in a place where I was ready to make that commitment to budgeting, now that I am there, I wish I could go back to ynab 4, but obviously it is no longer sold.  Was ynab 4 perfect? No...but in many ways it seems the online version has regressed rather than moved forward.  When the online version came out from what I have read it seems the community was told the annual subscription vs one time cost would allow continuous improvement, but I am by far not the only one who thinks they have fallen short on this promise.

      I for one bring this up because I want to see ynab follow though and improve on their system.  I am not demanding they abandon their vision, not in the least.   That said, to also address that which you said about their vision, a good vision isn't a list of features it will have and any requests outside that get ignored. A good vision will be what the product will do for the user then you listen tot he users to build the features to get you there.

      Reply Like 4
  • I don't think anyone would fire back. We are all civil here :)

    Stacy C said:
    Or you all that are complaining could find a product that works for you at a price that works for you. Whoever, designed this website and process did so with a vision in mind and are following that vision. Trying to tell someone how to make their idea what may be better for you, may not be what they envision. 

     I am fairly new so I don't want to speak for others but maybe they care enough about the company to want to stay and attempt to make it better?

    Also, I am not sure such a stance (in regards to a evolving customer base) worked out well for companies like Blockbuster, Best Buy, ToysRUs, Sears, etc.

    Just a thought.

    Reply Like 6
  • nolesrule said:
    There should be a single Product Manager/Owner to maintain the vision and set priorities based on customer and business needs.

     Could you come to my place and explain that to our Product Owner???

    I get very frustrated that our Product Owner keeps coming to me (as lead developer) to ask what we should do next, then doesn't give any lead when I turn the question back on them and say: "what would you like us to focus on next?"

    Reply Like
      • Agent99
      • Working to Get Smart at budgeting, finances and life
      • Agent99.1
      • 6 days ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Major  That's a bad product owner.  I would come to you and say I have these five priorities can you estimate these and tell me any unknown technical challenges you see in trying to implement them.  I would weigh that against the customer benefits and what the business needs and come to a conclusion as to what gets worked on first.  It would be my job as the Product Owner to manage the customer/business expectations against the technical limitations and realities.   

      Reply Like 6
  • nolesrule said:
    Stealing From the Future should have been resolved years ago. It's a major enough issue that the product never should have launched with it in the first place.

    ^^** Hyperbole alert**^^

    Should SFTF be addressed? Sure. Would I rather not use YNAB at all until it's fixed? Absolutely not.

    I get it's an issue, but pretty sure everyone using YNAB is using it despite that. There are a lot of users here who seem to have picked their battles. Can YNAB be better? Sure. Is it something that has to be better tomorrow? No. Does YNAB work as is? Yes. Will they eventually get to these nitpicked add-ins? Maybe.

    PS. I don't want my budget parading as a rainbow. I prefer the primary colors of Green, Yellow and Red. It's simplistic and I get it. I think the option to turn things Blue is best left in the Toolkit - an option, since YNAB has already stated they don't want to include toggle options.

    Reply Like
    • Til Debt Do Us Part I can't speak for anyone else but (if I had the option) I would rather use ynab 4 than the online version, for that reason, and a few other smaller reasons.  I think the point is that we had ynab 4 they should have taken their time before launching the online version to do it better.  Persoally if I owned ynab 4 already, or if it were still sold, I would use it over the online version. Though I still find the online version better than alternative solutions like every dollar or mint.

      As far as the whole color thing, the toolkit doesn't help on the mobile apps. Different people want different things, this is why I find ynabs choice to force all users into one way of doing things and not including toggles is a mistake, one I hope they eventually reconsider because there are a lot of situations where ynab forces all users into one way where no matter what that way is someone will not like it.  Granted there are some things where that method of one way only and no toggles makes sense, but there are other things where toggles are preferable.

      Reply Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 4 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Til Debt Do Us Part No, it's not hyperbole.

      Stealing From the Future is a case of overbudgeting without notification.  If you can overbudget without notification, it means you can then overspend the overbudgeting.Once you've overspent the overbudgeting, it's too late to fix. It 's the antithesis of everything that YNAB stands for with the method, and that's why it never should have been released with the bug. It's a violation of the YNAB Rules built right into the program.

      The reality is most people just don't understand how serious a problem this actually is, because they don't understand the potential damage this can cause to someone's finances. A couple dollars may not be the end of the world, but why is it limited to a couple dollars? By budgeting into the future, you could be burning through tens, hundreds or even thousands of dollars without realizing it till it's too late.

      The worst part is that it's the people who are taking the (IMO poor) advice to budget money into future months but don't have a solid grasp on their finances and all the intricacies of how YNAB works that are most likely going to be the victims.

      As for YNAB not wanting to get into the business of toggling UI options and rely on the toolkit, it just reeks of laziness. Users can't depend on the toolkit to be around forever. Everytime YNAB makes even  a minor change to the html, there's a risk the toolkit will cease to work.

      And yes, there's inconsistency in the UI, and there are issues with the color schemes with people who have visual disabilities. So the ability to toggle things would be helpful.

      Reply Like 2
      • Til Debt Do Us Part
      • Divorcing Debt - Not Each Other
      • debt_do_us_part
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Slate Blue Sander It sounds like you used YNAB 4 in the past. Did you lose access because of the 64-bit support change? I think one of the biggest gold mines with YNAB 4 is that users can still use it if they prefer it (I know a number of people in the forum do). YNAB 4 users have the liberty of using YNAB 4 until the new YNAB is their preference, or forever if they never come to like it.

      Reply Like
      • Til Debt Do Us Part
      • Divorcing Debt - Not Each Other
      • debt_do_us_part
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Again, I get that it's an issue. I get that it should be addressed. However, it has never caused that "too late to fix" error for me, and probably a good number of others. The people who have been affected by it in the forum, seem to have caught it before it got to that point (at least in the threads I've seen). And, once a user is aware of it, it becomes easy to avoid.

      I understand why it's a pain point for you but it's just that - a pain point. YNAB will be a stronger product once it's fixed, but it's very usable as is - as proven by all the users.

      And the toggle thing I just let go. It's something the company doesn't want to do, for whatever reason. If not doing it limits their target audience, I think it just makes it clearer who was (or wasn't) in mind when it was made. Stacy said it above, YNAB was made with a vision in mind. If anyone hates that vision or thinks certain parts of it make YNAB unusable, they don't have to use it. (I think you were one of the ones who said you don't, but can use YNAB 4 until the piggy banks roll home)

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 4 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Coral J Hammerhead Are you using the Toolkit? Because I believe that's a Toolkit Feature.

      Budgeted in the Future won't tell you if budgeting in the current month causes you to overbudget a future month with out of the box features. The number just gets smaller and stops when it gets to zero. Once you've pulled more money back into the current month than you have budgeted in the future will anything happen in the current month, and the TBB will go negative.

      Reply Like 1
    • nolesrule Yes, my apologies. I only remembered to try without the toolkit as soon as I hit Send and removed the post, but not fast enough! I don't have the toolkit on all the places I use the budget from, so I'm actually going to go back to my 1 cent solution from now on.

      Reply Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 4 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Til Debt Do Us Part said:

      However, it has never caused that "too late to fix" error for me, and probably a good number of others. he people who have been affected by it in the forum, seem to have caught it before it got to that point (at least in the threads I've seen). And, once a user is aware of it, it becomes easy to avoid.

      Ah yes, the good old "just because it's never happened to me doesn't mean it's that serious a problem" defense. I always enjoy when that one comes up. It just means people are projecting themselves onto others rather than being aware and empathetic of the situations of others.

      Not everyone reads the forums, or the Facebook group or the subreddits to learn to avoid it. Many people aren't really aware the problem even exists, even as it's happening to them.

      The entire extent of the issue is found at the bottom of this document:

      https://docs.youneedabudget.com/article/230-future-budgeting

      Future Budgeting & To be Budgeted

      Once you budget into the future, your most up-to-date To be Budgeted number is in that future month. If you budget $1000 in next month, then return to the current month and budget another $25 to groceries, that $25 will come out of “Budgeted in Future”, not your current month’s To be Budgeted (which will still say $0.00). Move money instead!

      At least it's colored orange on the page, so hopefully people realize it's a warning that needs to be adhered to and not just an aside to be glossed over. But the issue comes up enough just here on the forums that I'm going to guess it's not being read by everyone.

      Reply Like 1
    • Til Debt Do Us Part Like I said if I had a license I would be using it. But I never bought it. I trialed it in 2014 but wasn't at the place where I was ready to commit to the effort to budget.  I wish I did purchase it in retrospect.

      Reply Like
      • Til Debt Do Us Part
      • Divorcing Debt - Not Each Other
      • debt_do_us_part
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule 

      nolesrule said:
      Ah yes, the good old "just because it's never happened to me doesn't mean it's that serious a problem" defense.

       Nope, my point is that everyone using YNAB is currently using YNAB even with this "major enough issue that the product never should have launched in the first place". And, some people have been using it for a full 3.5 years, despite this all-ending bug. Is that more than enough time to fix it? I'd say yes, but apparently not. They're working on it and hopefully no one keels over from this earth-shattering issue before they fix it.

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Til Debt Do Us Part I work in ecommerce. Calculating an incorrect order total is a showstopper.

      Presenting incorrect numbers that people are relying on to make spending decisions is also a showstopper of a very similar degree. It's condoning a self-theft, because they can't rely on the numbers they see right in front of them.

      Reply Like
      • Til Debt Do Us Part
      • Divorcing Debt - Not Each Other
      • debt_do_us_part
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Slate Blue Sander You're vying for features you remember seeing in a trial 5 years ago? Don't take my question the wrong way, I'm impressed you remember the program well enough to want certain aspects of it back. 

      Reply Like
      • Til Debt Do Us Part
      • Divorcing Debt - Not Each Other
      • debt_do_us_part
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule It hasn't stopped the show for YNAB. A lot of people still use it. SFTF most likely won't be fixed tomorrow, but YNAB will still be here and with a similar sized fan-base I'm willing to bet.

      I'm not saying it's not an issue. But if it was as big an issue as you think, an issue that should've prevented them from even launching, YNAB would be shrinking instead of expanding and hiring more people to hopefully fix the pain points. 

      Reply Like
    • Til Debt Do Us Part I've also been doing a lot of reading on the forums. A few months back when I decided I wanted to start keeping a budget ynab is what I thought of first.  Then I found out the ynab 4 I remember isn't available any more so I looked into the online version before finding a link for a 90 day trial that I am now in. I've seen many people talk about what ynab4 did that the online version doesn't.  I think the biggest one I wish the online version had was income for next month.  I have 6-7 paychecks per month I have to budget for, but sitting down to budget that many times a month is less than ideal, getting fully buffered and using income for next month would be nice so I could budget just once at the beginning of each month but with the online version the only option is to do some quirky workarounds.  Then there's trying to deal with reimbursements. Perhaps the red arrow wasn't the cleanest method, and obviously controversial, but it worked so long as you have the cash in your account to cover it.

       

      To be fair ynab 4 had its shortcoming too, but it seems the online version was one step forward and three steps back at the same time.  That said, if ynab would do just 1 thing, I would want to see full write access via the API, because at that point I could use the API to overcome just about every other shortcoming.  No software is going to be exactly what I want, but I find it disconcerting to read about how ynab has dealt with feature requests.  And secondly I think the price is a tad bit aggressive, if I had to price it I would say for where it is at I wouldn't think twice if it were priced at $6/mo or $60/yr.

      Reply Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Til Debt Do Us Part

      Stealing From the Future is at its most basic a violation of the 4 Rules of YNAB. That right there should have been enough to consider it a showstopper. And it allows people to make financial decisions using misleading data. That right there is also enough to be a showstopper, because one should be able to extrapolate the kinds of problems that can lead to.

      There was one poster on the old forum who early on in the release accidentally spent over $1000 because they didn't realize what the problem is. That's a lot of money. But you can't say it's not that serious a problem because no one is tracking the aggregate of how much money is being lost due to bad spending decisions that are a result of the issue. Any amount should have been unacceptable.

      Reply Like
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 4 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I remember reading about that. Knowing that it had happened is why I still take all the necessary safeguards & consider it a Big Deal that it hasn't been fixed yet.

      I know you're no fan of analogies, but I am :) So you can ignore my little analogy/story if you like...

      This is rather like getting a brand new Flying Car & being all excited to go flying instead of just driving on the interstate, and then reading in the manual that if you actually run the vehicle in Flying Car mode you lose the Tall Building Avoidance program, so many drivers have experienced anything from a Close Call to a Catestropic Crash. So you wind up driving down the interstate anyway, praying none of the flying cars crash near you.

      Reply Like 2
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 3 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view
      nolesrule said:
      The reality is most people just don't understand how serious a problem this actually is, because they don't understand the potential damage this can cause to someone's finances

      Even in my limited experience, I know for a fact that SFTF has smacked more than one person with a several thousand dollar shortfall that became apparent after it was too late to compensate. It's hardly hyperbole when the product violates the most fundamental principle in the design. I suspect many people who blow this issue off don't see the continual queries from new users who are impacted.

      Reply Like 2
      • Til Debt Do Us Part
      • Divorcing Debt - Not Each Other
      • debt_do_us_part
      • 3 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Slate Blue Sander It comes down to preference, because I think the new YNAB was three steps forward and (maybe) one back - I say maybe because I don't have many complaints, though others do obviously. Getting rid of Dropbox alone was worth two of those steps, in my opinion. I hated the file share and found it clunky. Income for Next Month can be replicated by creating a category for it in your budget, but I wish I could budget 6-7 times a month - budgeting for everything at once would give me too much idle time. I'd itch for the rest of the month. But just like you could choose not to use Income for Next Month in YNAB 4, you can choose to add a category for it in the new YNAB. I don't consider that a work around, but just how things work now. There was even a support video on how to do it somewhere.

      I use the Tracking account approach for reimbursements, and haven't had trouble there. Not to say others don't, but maybe it can tide others over until there's a cleaner option? 

      I am not API friendly, so I'm not sure what the current access levels are. Is the API for YNAB limited to certain things?

      Reply Like
      • Til Debt Do Us Part
      • Divorcing Debt - Not Each Other
      • debt_do_us_part
      • 3 days ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule But it was accepted, for 3.5 years and running, by everyone who knowingly continues to use YNAB. Did the person in the old forum mention if they gave up on the new YNAB? That's a terrible and hard way to learn about SFTF, but I'm willing to bet it wouldn't happen again - whether that's because they gave up on YNAB or learned from it is really just up to the person.

      YNAB is succeeding even with SFTF, so I don't think it's fair to say they never should've launched or experienced success because of it. I understand you don't use the new YNAB, but I would much rather have 3.5 years of YNAB with SFTF than 2.5 years - or however long a fix would have taken - without it.

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 3 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Til Debt Do Us Part Yes, YNAB is succeeding financially. That doesn't mean they made the best decision for their customers, just for their bottom line.

      They released a product that violates its own internal business rules, and can have a real-world negative financial impact on it's customers. Furthermore, it can stay hidden for a long time for people who are their target market because they trust the system and don't see what's happening. For example, when new income is received, it buries the problem because the future shortfall sucks the money out of TBB, and only the viginlant and those who understand the math will realize something was amiss.

      Reply Like 1
  • Faness said:
    We do have beta testers that receive new features in advance to provide feedback.

    I'm not talking about beta testing. That is designed to find bugs -- things that do not work as developers intended. I'm not even talking about alpha testing (which is an internal version of the same). I'm talking about users -- stakeholders -- involved in the conceptual UX design, to get their feedback LONG before that design is committed to the product.

    Perhaps a more concrete query that you may be able to track down: since YNAB is tracking all these feature requests and bug reports, do you have any plans to notify people when bugs are fixed or features implemented?

    Reply Like
    • dakinemaui We take feedback from beta testers not just for bugs but for concept and implementation as well. For instance, the SFTF fix was beta tested and due to the feedback we received is being reworked.

      We do have a system in place to follow up with users who report certain issues or request certain features. However, how we follow-up with YNABers depends on scale and how the report or request was received. For instance, when new goals are available, we'll announce them (Weekly Roundup, Release Notes, etc.), but we most likely won't reach out to each individual that requested them. 

      Reply Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 2 days ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

      Faness said:
      For instance, the SFTF fix was beta tested and due to the feedback we received is being reworked.

       The SFTF beta test is noteworthy from the fact that early beta testers (including myself) sent detailed constructive criticism to the design team.  The design team then came out with a short true/false survey on some of the issues we surfaced.  The shape of the questions showed that the team was not looking for constructive criticism.  So I quit testing the SFTF fix, and went back to my workarounds to avoid the problem in the first place:  A holding category to move TBB into the month where I want to budget it, and never budget into the future.  Done.  Problem solved, for my budget.  Problem still there, for anyone who wants to budget future months using fluid TBB as designed and encouraged by YNAB instructional material.

      FWIW, the early SFTF solution looked inferior to the simple informational warning that Toolkit provides on the budget page.  SFTF is not a bug; it is an inevitable consequence of having fluid TBB across months and budgeting into the future.

      The BUG part is that it's silent, i.e. there is absolutely no warning on the budget page when it happens.  Toolkit showed how to fix that; YNAB ignored that simple solution. 

      A real fix of SFTF, in the sense of preventing it from happening at all, would require a return to walled months.  That won't happen, because walled months are in conflict with the vision of fluid TBB and budgeting multiple months into the future.  Fine.  I can live with that.

      For my own budget, it doesn't matter.  I'll work around SFTF.  I would rather see some sort of program support for budgeting an entire month at once than a complex solution for SFTF.  A simple solution that displays future overbudgeting on the current month budget page is really all that is needed for SFTF.  Put the warning in the user's face, and then it's up to the user to fix the problem.

      Reply Like 6
  • Til Debt Do Us Part said:
    YNAB will be a stronger product once it's fixed, but it's very usable as is - as proven by all the users.

    YNAB has repeatedly said it's the user's feedback that drives the development. It's still not fixed, and thus some of us will continue to beat the drum. We also educate new users about the danger, so hopefully it doesn't materially affect them. It should be obvious, though, that some will be missed and suffer.

    Reply Like
      • Til Debt Do Us Part
      • Divorcing Debt - Not Each Other
      • debt_do_us_part
      • 3 days ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui I'm not saying don't beat the drum! It should be addressed. I'm saying SFTF being a big enough issue that YNAB shouldn't have launched isn't right - based on plenty of people using it and the company growing even with it in place. 

      Hopefully, it's fixed soon, but I won't be cancelling my subscription if it's not. 

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 2 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Til Debt Do Us Part said:
      Hopefully, it's fixed soon, but I won't be cancelling my subscription if it's not. 

      Likewise, but that's because there's currently no competing option available. They can only afford to rest on those laurels just so long. Once other competitors get up to speed, the ones that are more responsive to customer need are going to bury YNAB.

      Reply Like 2
      • Til Debt Do Us Part
      • Divorcing Debt - Not Each Other
      • debt_do_us_part
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

      bevocat If the Only difference between YNAB and this competitor was SFTF you'd leave? I get SFTF is an issue, but I don't see myself jumping ship unless this new competition is magical and fixing SFTF is not made of pixie dust for me.

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 2 days ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Til Debt Do Us Part No, what I said was that if a competitor comes out with a product that does what YNAB does and is more responsive to customer needs they're going to bury YNAB. I would cancel my subscription if such a company did come along and did not have the SFTF bug. If they aren't also more responsive to customer need, that's just jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

      Of course the pricing model would also be a factor. I do have categories to look after, after all!

      Reply Like 3
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