Annieland This didn't make it to the Release Notes, but you make a good point. I'll let our team know you expected to see it there! We've added more description in-app, both when you hover over the buttons and alerts like this one:
 

Nicole So, now I can't fund all my goals/scheduled transactions if they'll make TBB go negative? 

I like being able to whittle away to get TBB back to zero, especially if overspending is involved. 

Similarly, why should YNAB think my categories are in priority order? I've got bills and stuff I need to make sure is paid at the top, but the next things are relationships/gifts/hobbies/fun - otherwise known as discretionary things. They are not higher priority than the savings categories below them. 

In fact, I put my highest priority savings categories at the very bottom so that I can really easily scroll right to them. Next highest is above them, and savings categories that are OOSOOM are at the top of the savings categories. The bridge between savings and discretionary is the wish farm, and that's buried in the middle of my budget (lowest priority).

And what about people that budget paycheck by paycheck? I've seen people with Check 1 - Fixed Needs, Check 2 - Fixed Needs, then 1&2 True Expenses, then 1&2 Variable Needs, then 1&2 Fixed Wants, then 1&2 Variable Wants, etc. The new way underfunded works would mean they'd have to completely split the functional groups in favor of checks. Easy to budget, less easy to check the categories before spending.

Just playing devil's advocate. I understand not wanting to automatically effect an invisible negative number with the combination of an unexpected quick budget + SFTF, but... Why not just fix SFTF so people can decide for themselves with accurate budgetary info?

P.S. I saw the new buttons this past weekend, but I was just trying to check budgeting off the list and didn't explore.  That is definitely an annoying thing about SAAS. I can't choose when to sit down and learn the new software functions on my own schedule as easily. Luckily, YNAB hasn't often put a wrench in my work by forcing me to learn a new workflow before I can actually use the tool normally (can't say that for some others-played a major role in deciding to continue their subscription or not), so thanks! 😁

Move Light Sound Life It goes based on date of goal, if you have goals with dates, the earlier ones get funded first.

Also, if you deselect one category, you can still go negative.  It only doesn't go negative if all (or none) are selected.  Probably as a deterrent to people accidentally hitting the button with nothing selected, and all of a sudden really weird things have happened to their budget.  This way, it has to be somewhat intentional.

Bruce Aha! Like I said, I haven't played yet. 🙂 Thanks!

Nicole If you have many goals with the same date (like end-of-month), what order will they be funded in?

Herah I believe it's top-to-bottom based on how you've sorted your categories!

Move Light Sound Life Is that workflow for budgeting new income? When you select specific categories (individual or multiple, groups too), Underfunded will continue to allow overbudgeting for your workflow. Once you've had a chance to give it a try, I'd love to hear how it goes! In my personal budget I do the opposite, and select categories or groups until that Underfunded number approaches the amount ready to assign in To be Budgeted.

The order is a piece of it, but not all. Goals or scheduled transactions and their end date also play a role. The detailed logic is noted here. Underfunded is smart and knows if you're starting on the 16th, that next month's bill for the 15th doesn't need to be funded yet. I think this is especially helpful for folks who budget paycheck to paycheck, simplifying that repeat priority decision making—but also allowing room for flexibility with selecting specific categories or groups!

Nicole When we started using YNAB, yes.  That was our workflow.  Once we realized we ought to reconcile at the start of a budgeting session, we often had overspending that needed to be rectified before/when we budgeted the new month (in the middle of the month).  Often, that overspending would dictate how much we could put towards our normally budgeted priorities, because we had a green TBB and red categories.   We would then painstakingly and painfully reduce funding to our higher-priority savings categories to make everything work again (we weren't funding lower priorities at that time). 

'Course, right after we funded that month's bills (which would roll over to the next month), we'd flip to the next month to pretend to sequester $431.17 for groceries, gas, household, and fun money for the following month, thinking that that would shelter those funds until we got paid again...  Haha (not really), SFTF and the WAMming from the first half of the month would mean that we would trip over ourselves trying to chase numbers to try out different scenarios of what we could live with, priority-wise.  I'm not sure that the Money Moves would have helped us at that point, except as a way to keep us on the path of chasing numbers.   As it is, we were trying to develop a template for the month in the interface that showed all of the flexibility in the same (budget) cells.

I'm sure it didn't help that we were just married and hadn't figured out what our normal expenses even were, much less what our priorities were (we talked about all the other major things before marriage, but this one waited - thank goodness for YNAB!).  We were really trying to use the software to figure things out as we went, but after hours of frustration one month, we turned to fiddling with the plan on paper so that we would know what to put in YNAB.  I'm sure I've recounted that before. =)

So, no, that's not my current workflow.  My current workflow is to develop a template for my base income in a spreadsheet outside of YNAB.  Since my True Expenses are normalized, this doesn't change unless we're making a lifestyle change/income adjustment.  I don't often change it for little things until they've built up, either - those just happen in YNAB.  I then categorize all income to INM to keep the TBB clean throughout the month (so awkward to check the grocery category on/after payday and accidentally display some large number to those around you!).  Any overspending must be taken care of in the month it's in, so no pulling new income to cover.  I've set monthly contribution goals (idk what they're called now) to match my template.  When I'm ready to budget the next month, I recategorize the income, quick-budget everything, and decide where to put any excess. 

Actually... that was the process for the past year.  For the last three months, I've tried the workflow where I store the nominal budget values in the next month, including my base income as a negative number in INM.  Then, when I'm ready to budget, I recategorize, flip two months into the future, click "budgeted last month," flip back to the month in-between, and delete the INM value.  I'm not sure if I like it yet.  It's definitely less clicks than using goals, though.  It just means that the month three months from now has a negative TBB so I have little recourse from SFTF.  We haven't had a lot of daily interaction with the budget lately, though.  I will likely go back to how I did it last year.  A template would be nice, instead.... 

Imagine - just a few questions in the UI like "When is your budget day? How much money will you have to work with on that day?" and BOOM!  a template that's not applied to budget categories just yet.  A sandbox to play in as the YNABer works through possible plans.  One click for "Apply Template" (if someone wants a template for each paycheck, the one for the correct date can be automatically prominent) or a button right next to it for "edit template" would be great for those newbies that really should have new nominals as TEs become normalized, or anyone who wants to make a change. 

Exactly how that feature would be framed so that the correct importance is placed on budgeting only money you have today (for newbies) is still unfinished in my mind.  However, once a user is budgeting on last month's income, a true template would be nice. 

Just thoughts.  I also can't scroll to see what you wrote and determine how far down the tangent I went.  Hope I provided good entertainment!

Matthew Also, the Order Logic section doesn't mention scheduled transactions, although the summary says they are considered.  I guess they get interleaved with the Needed For Spending goals?

Herah That's exactly right. Scheduled transactions are weighted equally with "by-date" goals.

Annieland Yes, the reduce overfunding takes anything extra from goals you have set.  Sometimes I agree with YNAB, sometimes I don't. :-)

Annieland 

I had a little fun playing around with the Reduce Overfunding option, too, when I noticed it.

It doesn't really work as designed for me because I deliberately misuse the spending goals for categories I'm building up based on the frequency of weeks within a month. What I really need is the option to save based on weeks, but as that isn't an option, I use the spending goal quite liberally. Since I don't spend some of those categories to 0 each month, the category looks rather bloated (technically has many month's worth of "spending" in it), and the reduce overfunding option ruthlessly cleans all those categories down to 0.

Annieland I was just about to ask for a screenshot, so thanks for reading my mind! 😉 This one does look odd. Since your Target Saving Balance goal is met, there is no extra to remove.  If a date was set, and you were "ahead" on the timeline—I would expect it, but that's not the case.

Try deleting and re-adding the $300.00 goal and let me know if that changes anything!

Annieland Thanks for documenting it step by step! Do you use the Toolkit extension by chance? If you do, try turning that off, to see if it helps. Rectify Difference is an option there, I believe.

I'll reach out via email, just in case we need to loop in our Bugs team.

Annieland Yes. Thank you! It's always good to check. With the Toolkit off, that goal is behaving as I'd expect—and the Reduce Overfunding option is no longer visible. If anything else pops up, let us know!

Annieland Do you not have this?  

I had to go to April to see it, as that bill has already been paid in March. 

I am reminded that I would like to see Committed Transactions have an effect on the budget...