Another CC withdrawal question

Hey! I've read the other topics on CC withdrawals, and there's one aspect of it I still can't figure out.

So I learned how YNAB handled this, and it's okay by me: I recorded the transfer from my credit card to my cash account, it changed my CC payment category (since I have new debt) and sent some money to "to be budgeted", since I, well, now have some cash on hand. That's all fine. Seems a little convoluted like some people pointed out, but I'm fine with it.

The thing is: I then budgeted that money back to the CC payment category, my CC account now shows:
- Balance: -$X

- Payment: $X (the same amount)

- Overspent: $Y (shown in yellow, for the amount I withdrew)

So that's when it lost me. How can I have budgeted for the full payment of my credit card, and still be "overspent". That doesn't make sense to me, can anyone clarify?

I mean, I thought it made sense at first, before I budgeted the amount back to the CC payment category, but for everything to be "okay" and the account still show overspending is really weird to me.

 

Thanks!

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  • A cash advance is, by definition, unbudgeted and therefore the register says, "overspent". You just have to ignore that. You might suggest they improve that through the official process, as you're not the first be confused by that indication.

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  • Hi Marcelo Alvim !

    Sorry for the confusion!

    That overspending notice is mentioned at the end of our Transfers from a credit card account Help Doc.

    The yellow overspending alert in your credit card account register won’t go away until your budget rolls over to a new month. This is the case even if you budget the amount of the transfer directly to the Credit Card Payment category as described above. This can be safely ignored, as long as the credit card Payment amount matches the payment amount you plan to make.

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  • Hi!

    Thanks for your answers.

      I now understand I can ignore that, but I still ask what is that telling me? Why is this there, if it has no meaning after I've budgeted for the payment of the card in full?

     

    I mean, I'll mark this as answered and I sincerely thank you for your help, but I might just do as @dakinemaui said and submit an improvement request of sorts? It seems it serves no purpose and is just confusing for people who pay it in full. Or am I misunderstanding something? If I budget for the payment in full, how can I be "overspent"? Is that useful in some use case that I can't think of?

     

    Thanks!

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    • Marcelo Alvim The overspending alert is initially telling you to budget for that transfer amount. Once budgeted for, it's a quick reference for that cash advance amount, but I understand how that alert could be more worrisome than helpful. A Feature Request is the best way to let our Product Team know you'd like to see that behavior changed. :)

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      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness Why does the product team think we need a quick reference for that cash advance amount? What’s the thought process there?

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    • Habanero Salsa There's no way to have YNAB budget the amount for you, since there's no place to account for that transfer. Since YNAB can't move that money for you, it's left as a reminder in that alert.

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      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view
      Faness said:
      The overspending alert is initially telling you to budget for that transfer amount. Once budgeted for...

       

      Faness said:
      There's no way to have YNAB budget the amount for you, since there's no place to account for that transfer.

      I’m totally lost now. The alert tells you to budget for the amount, but there’s no way to budget the amount?

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    • Habanero Salsa Sorry for the confusion. With credit card spending, if you budget for the expense, YNAB moves the amount for you to have that amount Available when it comes time to pay the bill. With a cash advance, YNAB won't move that money for you because there's no category where you can budget those funds so that YNAB applies them automatically to the cash advance. That overspending alert is telling you to budget directly towards the credit card category, since YNAB can't budget the amount for you, and you can reference the amount you needed to budget by checking the overspending alert. 

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      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Faness That makes sense.

      Once that amount is budgeted, what’s the thinking behind keeping the account in alert status rather than showing it as fully budgeted, though? It seems like if it’s ok to ignore the alert, the alert shouldn’t be there.

      It feels more like a bug than a feature, but I’m probably still missing something. 

      Like 1
    • Habanero Salsa Yeah, that's my line of thinking as well. YNAB is giving me an alert, meaning there's something I should do about it, like my finances are not safe. Just like it does in many other ways that are really helpful!

      Except in this case it tells me to then just ignore this alert! That's exactly what makes me feel like this is more of a bug than a feature as wel... Like you said, what purpose does this reminder of "you one made an withdrawal in your credit card" serve? I'm probably also missing something, but it seems more confusing and annoying than helpful in any way...

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    • Faness At this point, people are talking about the continued alert of overspending in the register after having budgeted to the Payment category.

      The logic for the register warning should be, "If transfer present AND budgeted less than transfer amount, display warning."

      You're currently missing the second criterion.

      However, the BEST approach IMO would be for the transfer to show up as positive activity in the CC Payment category, requiring the user to explicitly move funds if they need them elsewhere. I.e., YNAB should maintain the post-payment debt. Unfortunately, I've given up hope of this, given YNAB's repeated optimizations for the debt-adding user.

      Like 1
    • Habanero Salsa Marcelo Alvim dakinemaui Currently, YNAB isn't able to identify the connection between a cash advance and the budgeted amount for the credit card category - so there isn't a way to tell YNAB that cash advance was budgeted for (even after budgeting for it directly in the credit card category). YNAB doesn't know the cash advance was covered, so the alert remains there. 

      This is a result of the logic used for handling credit card payments - payments are budgeted for using the funds in your spending categories, but a cash advance doesn't have a specified category to use. Improving this display is on our radar, because we understand handling cash advances can be done in a more graceful way than "ignore that", but if you've already budgeted for the cash advance, that alert can safely be ignored. And, if not, you can reference the alert for the amount necessary to cover any overspending in that month.

      If you have any specific ideas you'd like to share, such as the cash advance showing as positive credit card activity or being able to mark the transaction as covered, please submit them through the Feature Request form.

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      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness How do I know if I’ve budgeted for the cash advance such that I can ignore the alert? What can I look at in YNAB that tells me I have enough money budgeted, at this moment, to cover the payment?

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    • Habanero Salsa You can compare the current credit card balance with the amount available in the Credit Card Payment category. (If you think we should make it more clear when these are in balance, I think so too!)

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      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Matthew I agree with your agreement. That was my point. If you can tell me what to look for to know things are good, the devs can tell YNAB exactly the same thing. That this doesn’t happen and that an erroneous error state can exist says “bug” not “feature request.”

      On the upside, I now understand this scenario and I like knowing more. 

      Like 1
    • Habanero Salsa I've been vocal internally on the "you can ignore this cash advance warning" issue, and I hope we'll see some movement on it, but I don't have anything I can announce.

      Like 2
    • Matthew Comparing the Payment category Available to the account balance only works for the paid in full case.

      The better approach is to compare the transfer amount to the budgeted amount, which works regardless of PIF or not. I'm sure someone will point out, "what if you're trying to pay down debt?" I'd respond that debt is debt, regardless of when that debt was incurred.

      Again, however, I feel the need to point out that a still better solution would be to count the CC to cash account transfer as positive activity. As you know, a transfer the other direction (cash to CC) already decreases the Payment category. Being consistent with that precedent will certainly reduce user confusion.

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