Reopen this thread

Reopen this thread. It was inappropriately closed, and I have reported the post announcing the closure.

https://support.youneedabudget.com/t/h402vx/negative-category-balances

And the topic of the conversation wasn't necessarily a feature request anyway, but rather how to accomplish something given the tools presently in use, and those discussions do not belong in a Feature Request thread.

Forcing everything into the Feature request thread is just going to create extra noise and this forum format is already unwieldy.

Closing the thread is stifling the discussions of the customer-base. Since there was no inappropriate discussion, there was no reason to close the thread.

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  • I agree with both of these. The discussions are talking about work-arounds as well as hoping for a feature. But every app has work arounds that people utilize regularly (think: toolkit), so this seems to be a good idea to allow the discussions to continue.

    Like
  • Not to mention that the OP asked me to clarify something and now I can’t. 

    You are literally preventing me from pointing out the benefits of your software to someone who’d like to use it. 

    Like 2
  • seems to me, that two things are going on. 1) In YNAB's mind, there should be no work arounds. Rules are rules and therefore, you need to just do it "our way." and 2) YNAB is targeting people who have no money and therefore don't know how to deal with people who aren't living hand-to-mouth. In other words, it's a great tool that allows for people to get out of debt, but if you are out, and you have money in the bank, reimbursements use happen at the end of the month on a regular basis. Floating it is normal in accounting principles. (I find this the same with EveryDollar, and why I couldn't use it, because it really isn't set up to allow people who aren't in debt much flexibility.)

    Like 1
  • rog said:
    YNAB is targeting people who have no money and therefore don't know how to deal with people who aren't living hand-to-mouth.

     This.  Over a year ago, another user told me, "They [YNAB] are not aiming to be a financial service company for the affluent."  At the time, I took his use of "affluent" to be a pejorative aimed specifically at me, and I suspect his idea of affluent involves a lot less money and income than my idea of affluent does.  Nevertheless, this person captured a bit of truth that I was not yet ready to see at the time:  Web-based YNAB is laser focused on the single use case of someone who is living paycheck to paycheck, possibly carrying credit card debt, possibly routinely using a credit card that still carries a balance, and potentially needing to add to credit card debt from time to time to make the budget work.  The farther the budgeter gets from this situation, the more workarounds are needed to make the budget fit the user's needs.

    Oh, it's possible to advance beyond living paycheck to paycheck and still use YNAB productively.  But the sound track encourages behaviors that are useful for the fire-fighting mode when any unexpected expense might cause an overdraft if the budgeter is not vigilant.  It encourages budgeting broke because you're living broke, and ignores the idea that there are better ways to manage money when you are no longer living hand-to-mouth.

    Time was, prior versions of YNAB had a great vision and system for people who could get a month ahead of their bills.  The problem was, people who weren't a month ahead struggled with a path to get there.  With the web rollout, YNAB solved that problem by providing a system that works very well for people who are not a month ahead of bills.  The cost is, YNAB expects people who are a month ahead to budget like they're still living paycheck to paycheck.

    But hey, if you never get a full month ahead of your bills, most of the problems I see with YNAB cease to be problems.

    Like 1
  • Patzer said:
    The farther the budgeter gets from this situation, the more workarounds are needed to make the budget fit the user's needs.

     Fascinating and articulate. I’ve just recently switched from YNAB4 because it’s dying on my Mac and my phone. Overall I’m fairly pleased with the new version. No real complaints. This is a bit of a frustration but I think I’ll get by..... 

    Like
  • Hey folks,

    I appreciate your perspectives on this and am happy to take some time and consider your comments.

    The second rule in our Community Guidelines has always been to reduce duplicate threads, but we've let that mostly go up until this point and it creates some major confusion for new users as they join into the Forum. The search feature in this forum could definitely use some help. We're going to try out keeping duplicate threads closed and redirecting feature requests into one place for a bit to see if that helps our team get more information on those requests and workarounds you're using. 

    I'm aware of all of the frustrations around how features are handled here in this forum and I'd like to make some moves on it. Will it work? I'm not sure, but we're all about trying things and we can always flip back if it doesn't prove helpful.

    Perhaps more visibility into what our Forum team is working on would help with frustrations as changes start to come up. We're currently taking steps to make the feature request black hole feeling disappear, change the colors & fonts to improve readability, & reduce the clutter from Direct Import threads. I will post with more details on those items next week.

    I'm just heading out to do some camping with my family for the weekend, but I'll be back in on Tuesday. If anyone has thoughts they prefer to share privately, you're welcome to send me a PM on here. Otherwise, I'll stop into this thread when I return. 

    Like
      • lindsay_g
      • Beige_Banjo.3
      • 1 yr ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Veronica at YNAB Somehow collapsing all the 'my bank won't import' threads would be great. My bank won't import because I'm not in the US, so not one of those has the slightest interest for me, but they take up the whole front page of the forum.

      Like 5
      • WordTenor
      • I have the honor to be your obedient servant
      • WordTenor
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      lindsay_g  You can follow all the other topics and leave Bank Imports unfollowed; this takes time to do since there's no "select all" function, but it's worth it to filter out Bank Imports. However, Support does not always manage to move threads that belong in Bank Imports into Bank Imports so a few slip through. Nowhere near the normal volume, though. 

      Like 2
      • HappyDance
      • YNABing consistently since 2014
      • HappyDance
      • 1 yr ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      WordTenor 

      Okay. I'm so incredibly tired of all the dumb bank and direct import posts. How do you do the follow thing again?

      Like 3
      • Vibrant
      • No more counting dollars, we'll be counting stars
      • vibrant
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      HappyDance I'm on mobile but I selected a topic from the "all Topics" dropdown then tapped the three dots so show the follow options. 

      Like
      • WordTenor
      • I have the honor to be your obedient servant
      • WordTenor
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      HappyDance  This. ^ 

      If you go to your profile, and click on notifications, you can unfollow topics with one click. It’s still not an en masse operation, but it helps. 

      Like 2
      • lindsay_g
      • Beige_Banjo.3
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      WordTenor Vibrant So, thank you both for trying, but I am being a bit hard of thinking here. I can see how to follow a thread, but I can't see how that removes all the threads I have no interest in.

      When I go to my profile, the threads I have posted in are all listed, with the option to unfollow them, But I don't see the bank import threads which I was hoping to get rid of.

      What would be great would be the option to opt out completely of a forum.

      Like
      • WordTenor
      • I have the honor to be your obedient servant
      • WordTenor
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

        it’s been a while since I’ve done this so it’s possible that you may have to go to each individual sub forum and click “follow category” as showed. What you do is follow everything *but* Bank Imports. Then you can filter the main page to show you only the things you follow, which will exclude the import threads.  If you have cookies set up, the site will remember your settings. 

      Like 2
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 1 yr ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      after you follow each category (as on the screenshot above) you have to click on the icon on the right (not the filter on the left) to select "show followed categories". I clicked on a ton of different things before I found that!

      Like 4
      • lindsay_g
      • Beige_Banjo.3
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      adriana01 Wow, that is a LOT of clicking. But thanks!

      Like
      • WordTenor
      • I have the honor to be your obedient servant
      • WordTenor
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      lindsay_g It’s worth it! I was about to list all the categories I unfollowed because I thought there were only three but it turns out I only follow about half the total categories. Everything I see on my screen is something I’m interested in engaging with. 

      Like 1
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      WordTenor Thank you! Now I don't have to scroll past all the bank import threads.

      Like
      • Veronica
      • Support Manager
      • Veronica_ynab
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      The process of unfollowing categories on this forum software is utterly confusing. WordTenor is right, you'll have to follow every category manually instead of unfollowing the ones you aren't interested in and that's just not user-friendly. Is everyone finding that it's primarily the Bank Import category that causes the most trouble or are there others that jump out to you as well?

      Like
      • WordTenor
      • I have the honor to be your obedient servant
      • WordTenor
      • 1 yr ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Veronica at YNAB I have lots of categories I don’t follow. One in particular here are the journals. The format of this board is absolutely awful for journaling. I don’t want to get a headache reading somebody’s financial journey so I’m afraid I just can’t engage with any folks whose journals are here. 

      This is also ironic because Jesse Mecham definitely touted these new boards as having a much better experience for journaling. I don’t know what he meant. 

      Like 3
  • Veronica at YNAB said:
    redirecting feature requests into one place

    Directing all features into a single thread is so unwieldy. As a reader, I won't know where to look because of how your forum software groups replies and such. "Feature Requests" as its own topic seems logical but 1 single thread for every single is basically illegible.

    Like 8
      • Vibrant
      • No more counting dollars, we'll be counting stars
      • vibrant
      • 1 yr ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      jenmas *especially* considering this forum only offers a single level of comment nesting. 😖

      Like 4
      • Veronica
      • Support Manager
      • Veronica_ynab
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      jenmas This is helpful. More nesting would definitely simplify and I could see one topic of many feature requests get unwieldy. Thanks for your thoughts.

      Like
  • Hmm. Stifling discussion is the opposite of my intent on that other post. If there is any regrouping, perhaps a topic area that other people can post to would make more sense. 

    I don't think that a post about a SFTF fix and SFTF workarounds are duplicates, because forums usually have brief answers/convo segments. Even more so, SFTF and any other feature should not be seen as the same topic or reduced to such.

    Besides, I wrote essays. Long ones. That makes finding anything even more unwieldly. Again, the intent was to spur discussion.

    Like 3
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life I thought what you did in that thread was great. Very interesting, and I hope it does spark discussion.

      I don't like that support was using it as an excuse to stifle other discussion, and you are not responsible for that.

      Like 4
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 1 yr ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life it was clearly not your intention and you certainly aren't responsible for the way replies are nested and threaded.  It's not on you!

      Like 3
    • jenmas nolesrule Thank you!

      Like
  • lindsay_g said:
    I am being a bit hard of thinking here

     That’s a good one. I may have to borrow that. 😄

    Like 1
  • So, nolesrule , did you ever get your thread re-opened?

    Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      lindsay_g They weren't my threads.

      Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 yr ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule “Does your dog bite?” 

      “No.”

      Reaches down and is attacked by the vicious dog.

      ”I thought you said your dog doesn’t bite!”

      ”That’s not my dog.”

      Like 7
  • Thanks to everyone who jumped in here & for the couple folks who sent me messages regarding this. My team and I are still working through some discussions on this topic before we can make any moves. I will post later this week (separately) with more details on upcoming changes regarding the other points I mentioned. 

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