Feature Request - Credit Card Payment Transactions

Currently when you click "Record Payment" for a credit card the transaction amount is the Working Balance. Most credit cards will not allow you to make a payment for more than what has cleared when paying through their systems. If you pay through your bank you can always pay more.

It would be nice if when you click record payment you got a popup that gave you two radio buttons with a message that asks if you would like to pay the Cleared Balance or the Working Balance. Another option would be to have a setting in Budget Settings allowing you to pick one.

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  • I'd suggest you pay the LESSER of a) the statement balance or b) the current Available amount. You will likely not run into paying more than the cleared account balance by doing that.

    I have a recurring transaction whose amount I edit, conveniently giving the due date as well.

    Like
    • dakinemaui I'm not asking how much I should pay. When you click the "Record Payment" button, YNAB defaults to the account total in the transaction it creates. I would rather it default to the cleared balance.

      Like 1
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 3 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tugboat Yes, I'm aware of what you're asking. You are also asking it because of what you want to pay. I'm suggesting there is a better choice of amount than the one you currently desire. 

      I actually think it defaults to the CC Payment Available balance, which is only equal to the working balance for a card with paid-in-full status. For someone who is not PIF or riding the CC float, the entire Available amount is the perfect amount to pay, which I'm sure figured largely into why that was made the default.

      As I said earlier, I would recommend a PIF user pay the statement balance. The three advantages: it's easily automated, you earn interest on the CC's money they haven't asked for yet, and it's more difficult to result in a credit balance with a return immediately following your payment. (Users are often confused by a positive CC account and how YNAB handles it.)

      Like 4
  • Hi Sky Blue Tugboat !

    When you click the Record Payment option, by default the inflow field is populated with the amount you have set aside in the Credit Card Payment category Payment column. This article on Credit Card Payments goes into a little more detail on how that works.

    No matter which way dollars get into your Credit Card Payments category, via budgeted spending or additional dollars budgeted to pay down the balance—the amount in the Payment column is your payment. Your budget tells you how much money is set aside, but you would want to verify that you're not paying the credit card company more than necessary by checking their website.

    I don't expect this behavior to change, but never say never! You can let our product team know you'd like to see the option to select your preference for the populated amount by submitting a Feature Request here.

    Like 1
  • Seconding this request. I'm a pif cc user, and I'd be more than happy to pay the full amount available every time. However neither of my credit cards allow me to pay more than the CLEARED amount. So the default behavior of this button does not work for me - as I suspect is the case for many, of not most, who use credit cards regularly and always pay them in full. I have submitted a feature request, as suggested. 

    Like 1
  • I would love to see this implemented.  I use a card that does not allow me to pay anything greater than the cleared balance, it would be great if the Record Payment function defaulted to the cleared balance instead of the working balance.

    Like 2
    • Forest Green Wildebeest You are in the minority of users with paid-in-full status. The default value is actually the contents of the CC Payment category, which is precisely what any non-PIF user -- i.e., the majority -- should pay.

      YNAB has stated in the past they are not in favor of "configurable options". Reluctantly, they have implemented some option switches for some things, but I wouldn't hold your breath on them spending development resources to benefit a small subset of users on something like this. Other extremely popular features requested by the "minority" since launch have gone unimplemented as well.

      Like
    • dakinemaui this would not have to be a configurable option. If the default payment method were instead lesser of the two values were discussing (cleared amount & amount available to pay) YNAB would keep ALL users happy. A non-PIF user is never going to be paying more than the cleared amount. e.g. their amount available to pay will be less than the cleared amount - until they become PIF.

      Like 2
    • Cornflower Blue Boa Excellent point.

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      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Cornflower Blue Boa Nope. My cleared amount very quickly becomes higher than my statement balance.... usually the day after the statement closes.

      But I only want to pay the statement balance.

      Like
    • nolesrule - I understand. I'm saying it should be whichever is LESS or 1) the amount you have available to pay or 2) the cleared amount.

      The problem is that when paying in full, and recording transactions in YNAB before they clear - we have more available to pay than the CC company will accept in payment.

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Cornflower Blue Boa It's less work to change the number in the transaction than to ensure the proper transactions have been cleared. I get your point, but there are so many different ways it can go sideways, that there's no point in putting any additional logic on the default amount.

      Like
    • nolesrule I strongly disagree with your last post. I can't think of a single way "it can go sideways". Could you provide an example of such? And yes - there is good and valid reason for this change. I and others, have clearly outlined why it would improve YNAB for many users (those that PIF), and have zero impact on rest of the user base.

      Like
    • nolesrule and what do even mean by "ensure the proper transactions have been cleared"? We have no control over a transaction clears with the credit card provider.

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      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Cornflower Blue Boa you have precise control over what has cleared in YNAB. It seems you presume the use of a linked account. 

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      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Cornflower Blue Boa you can't strongly disagree with a factual statement. 

      Like
    • nolesrule "it can go sideways" is not a factual statement. Please provide an example.

      Like
  • Cornflower Blue Boa said:
    I and others, have clearly outlined why it would improve

    I think you're missing that nolesrule is advocating that a PIF user should pay neither the cleared balance nor the Payment category Available. The best amount to pay is the statement balance, which is typically roughly half as large as the cleared or category balances shortly before the due date.

    The real improvement would be to pay the statement balance, since it gives you free money and can be automated (reducing effort and risk of error).

    Like 1
    • I agree dakinemaui that financially, the "ideal" would be to use the statement balance. However, since YNAB has no way of knowing the statement balance, that would be an impossible ask. However, using MIN(available,cleared) is practical and reasonable an improvement.

      Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui ynab doesn't know the statement balance.  Somebody that only wants to pay the statement balance is going to have to update the amount no matter what logic ynab uses.  You and nolesrule both feel strongly a pif user should only pay the statement balance. The proposed changes doesn't change that fact or impact your approach at all.  Some people prefer to make a different payment and this suggestion would simplify that and provide no downside at all to your approach. 

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      But why MIN(cleared,available) ?

      I just checked all my credit cards. I can pay more than the CC balance on all of them if I want. One of them limits it to 10% above the actual balance, others seem to have no limi, or at least it's much higher than the several thousand above the cleared balance that I tested with.

      So limiting it to just the cleared balance if lower than available is an artificial constraint that one person wants because his/her credit card doesn't allow him/her to pay more than the cleared balance.

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      • Herman
      • herman
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule actually it appears more than a few people would like it and you are suggesting a different option that you would never use.  You don't believe people should pay more than the statement balance so you are arguing against something that would have no impact on you. Have you actually started using  nynab yet?

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      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Herman I'm actually arguing on behalf of the people who pay the actual balance based on what's available. They enter the payment because it's available. The uncleared transactions will likely clear by the time the payment is processed.

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      • Herman
      • herman
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I'd love to hear someone in that situation speak up.  

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    • Herman said:
      Some people prefer to make a different payment and this suggestion would simplify that and provide no downside at all to your approach. 

      As I said hours ago, I agreed it was a good point. I only chimed in again because it seemed people were talking past each other.

      The glacial pace of development also means it doesn't matter.

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Herman Anyone in credit card debt should be paying every cent (or whatever currency) available in the CC payment category. Any less incurs unnecessary interest. So in reality, the two options for the payment should be

      if(PIF)
          { return statementBalance
      } else {
       return availableBalance
      }

      However YNAB doesn't know the statement balance, so there's no point in using this formula, leaving just the available balance as what should be used. The fact the CC will only accept payment up to the current cleared balance is clearly an edge case that at best should be a toggle-able option on an account by account basis and not an absolute rule.

      Like
    • I'll chiming in one last time, and then exiting this conversation - since it appears as though no one at YNAB is listening anyway. Not a single one of my credit cards allow me to pay more than the charges that have cleared. Admittedly I only have 3, but 2 of those are with CapitalOne - so not some odd outliers or "edge case". This appears to be a common scenario for many  YNAB users. And even if a CC provider did allow me to pay more - there is no reason I'd ever want to give them money for charges that haven't yet cleared.

      I manually enter and clear my transactions in YNAB before making a payment - so YNAB knows what has cleared on the Credit Card. As has been pointed out several times, even by nolesrule themselves - YNAB has no way of knowing our statement balance. Therefor it is impossible for YNAB to default to using the statement balance. So please stop even suggesting it. What the rest of us are suggesting is a good and viable option. And as Herman and I (perhaps others) have pointed out, the proposal would have zero impact on those that are not PIF. And no examples have been provided that illustrate any negative impact this could have on any user of YNAB. So why would anyone argue against something won't impact them at all, but would help many? It feels like I/we are simply being trolled.

      I don't know why or how nolesule got their "YNAB4 Evangelist" tag. But I hope they do not in fact represent the company in any official capacity. If so, they do a disservice via their condescending and dismissive attitude towards others. So again, this will be my last engagement here.

      To the rest of you - I wish you well!

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Cornflower Blue Boa

       

      Cornflower Blue Boa said:
      the proposal would have zero impact on those that are not PIF.

       Sure it would. If you aren't PIF, then it benefits you to send as much money as you have reserved in your budget. Even if the charge hasn't cleared yet (manually entered transaction, as an example), it's still beneficial to send that money off to the credit card company because the card balance will already exceed the payment available balance. So in that case it's a MAX instead of MIN that is beneficial to someone carrying debt.

       

      It just seems to me that limiting to the cleared balance is an unnecessary artificial constraint that only serves an edge case.  The cleared balance is an arbitrary number that is neither the statement balance nor the full balance of the card, which are the only two numbers that truly  matter in all cases.

      I just don't see a viable use case here that makes this suitable for a majority of situations, and I am not trolling.

      On the other hand, if you had said MIN(Working Balance, Available) then I might have a greed with you.

      Like
  • Cornflower Blue Boa said:
    there is no reason I'd ever want to give them money for charges that haven't yet cleared

    But you're fine giving them money for which they haven't asked? That seems a bit ... inconsistent.

    I realize you've exited, but other readers should consider the above when forming their own opinion. Again, I don't disagree a tweak to the logic would solve the immediate problem, but I think it's rather like treating a symptom rather than the underlying issue. YMMV, as always.

    Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui I seriously don't think the cleared balance has any relevance to calculating the payment value. The options should be Statement balance for PIF, and card WORKING balance (cleared doesn't matter) or available for non-PIF.

      Like
    • nolesrule When the user is looking to manually pay on the CC's website, the cleared balance is the maximum allowed in some cases.

      It's really only an issue because they want to click Record Payment + OK, rather than Record Payment + Paste + OK.

      Some people want what they want, and they are willing to give up free money to do it. It makes no sense to me, but as has been said by the proponents, it's no skin off my teeth; I guess I'll STFU about it.

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui 

      dakinemaui said:
      When the user is looking to manually pay on the CC's website, the cleared balance is the maximum allowed in some cases.

       And as I pointed out, that's an edge case. I have several credit cards, and all of them allow me to pay more than the cleared balance. In both the PIF and non-PIF primary use case, the balance you want to pay is not necessarily the cleared balance, so why default to a case that is the least optimal for any non-edge case?

      Like
  • And this is where I realise that there's a record payment button! I've always just recorded a transfer between accounts à la YNAB4. I suppose that saves me typing over the default amount as I'm a statement balance payer. I see no reason to pay them earlier than required.

    Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger I just Enter Now on the scheduled transaction and paste the amount (having double-clicked and ctrl+c it earlier).

      I actually think it's less typing than the Record Payment route, even IF the default amount is correct.

      Like 1
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