New Color Scheme Lacks Contrast (Especially For Those With Color Blindness!)

The new color scheme simply doesn't work. The new colors not provide enough contrast. With my type of colorblindness, I can barely see the difference between the red & green. They actually look very much the same at a glance and I can really only spot the difference when I take a really close look. This is bad. Like really really bad.

Please don't make this the only option! You have literally broken a very important part of the design for a lot of people. Please revert ASAP until you can find a better design than this (or at least give us the choice in the settings!).

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  • Hi everyone,

    I apologize for the delayed response here and lack of updates! I was headlining the feedback in this thread but have been out of the country the past week.

    Our development team came to a decision about how to move forward with the color changes a few days ago - we understand the current pill colors need to be revised. However, the changes are being made to the program in consideration of the current colors - which means we can't change them for the time being. 

    That being said, improvements are currently in the works. I can't offer an exact date, but we hear your feedback and we're working on it. This is a top priority and we're striving to create options that will improve accessibility for everyone. 

    If you haven't reached out to us at [email protected] yet, please do! We want to make those negatively impacted by this change a priority in consideration of the solutions going forward.

    Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 6 mths ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

      So the fact that reverting to the previous colors breaks the appearance for the existing color palette is more important than the fact that you have customers who can't use your product with the current colors.  Got it.  I know what to expect out of YNAB development now. 

      Please don't make any changes whatsoever to the product.  Any change you make might break things worse than they are already broken, and I have a fix in place for the current color issues.

      Like 7
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Faness You need a better change management system if it can't manage something this basic. You can roll back the existing changes to production while doing a development effort to fix the existing issues with the new colors. This is code management 101. it's not rocket surgery.

      Like 4
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 6 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

       Right?! If you can't roll back an update within a day or two at the absolute most, you have no business, well, in this business.

      This is getting to the point of absurdity.

      Like 3
    • Faness Pathetic. If your dev team can't fix this then they're in the wrong business and should be fired immediately.

      Like 1
    • Patzer We are planning on making improvements in the very near future, but it shouldn't break the fix you have in place. The plan for moving forward is based on the feedback received in this thread, so I hope all users here like the solution in store.

      nolesrule In this instance, we can not. We launched the color change feature in a different manner than we usually do, truly believing it was for the betterment of all YNABers. We're working quickly on rectifying this (improvements are now being beta tested).

      bevocat We truly apologize for the trouble this has caused. While we couldn't roll back the changes put in place, we are working on a fix!

      Forest Green Lightning I understand passion for YNAB runs high, and we do appreciate that investment in the software, but please try to voice your opinion without including insults. We hear you, we understand what happened and we're making steps to not only improve what happened here but to prevent any similar instances in the future.

      Like
    • Faness Please try hiring people who know how to develop software. I work in the atrium with the IT department of a tier 1 research university, and a terrible new website rollout last year got people fired as well as the previous version of the website reinstalled until someone capable took the job.

      Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

      Faness said:
      In this instance, we can not. We launched the color change feature in a different manner than we usually do, truly believing it was for the betterment of all YNABers.

      Then you're doing CSS wrong.

      It's called reverting the production system to the previous version. You do have versioning built into your change management systems, right?

      Like 2
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Hahaha, here you go, guys! I'm taking a course on Lynda, but this one's free! 

      Like
    • nolesrule We've rolled back previous features when they didn't work as expected, but this feature was handled differently - and we've definitely learned from the occurrence. 

      Like
  • Or..... you could just create a system where users can choose what colors they wish to have in specific spots. You know, so that we can decide what works for us. That would solve the issue of goals being a color that doesn't make sense as well. But why be logical?

    Like 3
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      farfromtheusual Exactly. Why not codify the CSS modifications provided by users above into preferences (with visual examples of the results so people can tweak to their heart's content).

      Like 2
    • nolesrule Really doesn't seem like it's that hard.

      YNAB allows us to control our money. Why shouldn't we be allowed to control how that looks?

      Like 4
  • Hello all. I've been trying to avoid getting to embroiled but I have to ask on this one.  The attached screens-shot is actually much easier to read than what I have on screen which is quite glaring and very hard to look at (you get a better impression by clicking on the image).

    Anyway, using the Toolkit I've fixed the green and blue in most category goals. This tan colour is on the credit cards and if any Toolkit Expert Peeps could suggest a solution for me I would be very grateful. My poor old eyes (I'm only 51, not that old!) would also like to thank you in advance. It is honestly making me squint and look sideways, it's a very odd and unpleasant thing to try and read.

    Like
    • Ben Is one of the Toolkit developers.  I believe this white font only shows up when the credit card is overspent somewhere else.  It is probably a hold-over from when the bold colors contrasted nicely with the white font.  Could the font be set to change to a dark brown or black when the pill is yellow?  This would likely fix the problem lindsay_g sees.

      Thank you, Toolkit people, for responding to people's requests!

      Like
    • Move Light Sound Life It's stunning how quickly and how well the toolkit devs can fix problems in YNAB that the YNAB devs either can't or won't. 

      Like 1
      • lindsay_g
      • Beige_Banjo.3
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life I'm not sure it is an overspent category thing because I did have money in the category to cover it.

      The 62.18 which shows as white text on a tan background on the webpage is the money I have ready to pay the card - you can see here on my phone screen it's a nice, distinct, white on dark green.  This has made me think that not only can't I see the white on tan, but the message isn't clear.

      'Tan' as a colour doesn't have any associations for me, whereas we all know that 'green' means 'good to go'.

      Like
    • lindsay_g 

      Maybe it's like that for any orange, then.  I have most of my normal orange (underfunded, in terms of the goal) showing as blue.  I think the Toolkit option for that is "goal indicator warning color."

      The only time I really see orange (or tan/light orange/yellow) is when I've overspent a category paid on credit (that category shows red, but the payment available shows tan) and I haven't covered it yet. 

      Like
      • lindsay_g
      • Beige_Banjo.3
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life It's not that, because I've switched to blue in the toolkit. This tan colour in the webpage is definitely saying 'money put aside to pay off a credit card' and 'it's enough money'. Because that's what that money is - it's funded categories for payments on a card which aren't due yet.

      In the app it's green you see, which is correct.

      I think it's interesting (in a bad way) that there is a pill on the page which neither of us can translate by looking at it. The whole point of icons and graphic communication is that - if it's good - it's obvious!

      Like 1
    • lindsay_g Well, that's weird, indeed.  Are you sure there's no overspending on credit in another category?  Or a goal/upcoming transaction that hasn't been met?

      In my budget, the only way I can get the yellow pill with white text is if I have an overspent category that was spent on credit, and I choose the "unhighlight positive balances."

      Then, the PIF Assist feature in the toolkit tells my CC available to be tan/yellow, but the Unhighlight Positive Balance feature makes the font a bold white. 

      Without the Unhighlight Positive Balance checked, the text is a dark brown/orange in the gold pill.

      But, maybe I just don't quite understand the logic behind these colors.  Or maybe it's a bug from either YNAB or Toolkit.  If it's toolkit, it's likely a bit of code that got overlooked as being affected in rare circumstances after the color change. 

      Like
    • TheTabby
    • Just a common cat trying to budget uncommonly well.
    • TheTabby
    • 6 mths ago
    • 2
    • Reported - view

    Id the goal is to improve the accessibility of the software for people with color blindness,  why not just get rid of the pills, and put make negative numbers bold and underlined? I think that big of a difference in formatting, along with a minus sign in front would clue people in that something's wrong and meds to be addressed.   You could even turn the negative numbers - the digits themselves - a nice bright red, which is already an industry standard that I've never heard complaints about. 

    Like 2
      • lindsay_g
      • Beige_Banjo.3
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      TheTabby I had an idea yesterday on this - the pills could change shape. The negative numbers be a large fat minus sign (or rectangle as you might call it) and the positive ones a big fat plus, a bit like the badge on a Chevrolet. If they want to get away from colours then shapes might be the solution?

      Of course, I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, but if colours aren't the answer, and apparently they aren't (although I don't know why they can't be an option - Excel lets me choose from about a hundred ways to show numbers) then maybe shapes?

      Like 2
    • TheTabby lindsay_g

      Thank you for sharing your ideas! We do want to move away from colors as the ultimate tell-tale sign in the budget and I like those suggestions! We've had to backpedal a bit to address the issues caused by the initial color changes but we are still keeping the long term goal in mind. :)

      Like
  • Faness  can I ask why YNAB wants to stop using color in the budget? Why not give users the option of different color palettes - maybe include an option that doesn't use color too?

     

    I'm one of the people who can't really use the new color scheme due to color blindness but the old colors worked very well for me. I can't imagine a faster way than colors to determine where I'm covered and where I'm short in a budget and I'm afraid if you roll out another update without any colors it'll just lead to another group of angry customers like we have here. 

    Like 3
    • Slate Gray Inspector Sorry for the scare here! We don't intend to remove colors, we just don't want them to be the only indicator for what's taking place in your categories. We use red and green to send signals about Available amounts, which isn’t the ideal experience for anyone with red-green color blindness. As a part of some larger visual changes, we’re looking at how to send these signals in ways that don’t rely on color at all but that doesn't mean color won't be present.

      We're working on a fix to move in the right direction for those with color blindness this time. We're hoping to have those improvements live soon!

      Like
  • Faness said:
    improvements are now being beta tested

    I'm willing and able to assist with this. I'm an affected user with software testing experience. Where do I sign up?

    Like
    • Ivory Sander Please email us at [email protected] and we can make sure you're put on our contact list for the coming changes!

      Like 1
  • Hi everyone,

    I posted an update on this issue in this new thread. We're asking for those who haven't already written in and would like to receive the changes early to let us know there. :)

    Like 1
  • I got the new rollout and it’s a huge improvement. Being able to revert to original colors is great but the new tweaked colors are way easier for me to use than the original color update. Thanks for fixing this issue!

    Like 2
  • I got the new update yesterday, but didn't really have a chance to look at it without my custom CSS fix until today (hooray for a budget that doesn't need constant attention!). The NEW new colors are a huge improvement, but I still prefer the "classic" colors. Thank you YNAB!

    Like 4
  • Agree!

    Like
  • I hope YNAB has a retrospective on this topic in their next sprint, a few things to thing about:

    - Learn about feature flags / feature toggles / incremental roll out.  This might have allowed controlled rollout and roll back of this feature.

    - Implement a decent settings capability, even this 'fix' was thrown in haphazardly to put out this dumpster fire of a release

    - Make a big donation to github. I am not sure I know of another paid product that has an open source community that plugs so many gaps for them.  

    - Give yourselves a bit of grace. These things happen, you learn, move on.  

    - I love YNAB.  Always have, and (probably) always will.

    Like 5
    • Hi George Peden !

      Our CPO, Todd, mentioned writing a piece on this occurrence in the coming week. I do want to add in that we use feature flags and incremental roll outs - most times. We released this feature outside of our usual manner, thinking it was in the best interest of all YNABers, and quickly learned otherwise.

      We do apologize for the inconvenience and we appreciate your patience as we learned through this one! :) 

      Like 1
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Faness Yikes. Hopefully they have learned their lesson about deviating from accepted practices, and I'm sorry it has been so much of an additional burden on the front-line support staff. Looking forward to things getting back to more normal for you soon!

      Like 1
    • bevocat Thank you for your kind words! We've all learned a few things from this and we hope to keep any similar offenses from occurring going forward! :)

      Like 2
    • Faness Super!  software is hard :-)

      Like 1
  • We've started to ramp this feature up to more users today, so I'm going to shut down further comments on this thread. Testing is going well, and all users will have access over the next couple of weeks.

    If you still prefer to have early access to the feature, please send us an email at [email protected] to request it. We'll be happy to do so!

    Thanks, everyone!

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