How can I use YNAB productively whilst paying off the Credit Card Float?

I've been using YNAB since August this year and have discovered that I'm a "Credit Card Floater".

The good news is that (by being disciplined) I am reducing my CCF by around $1k per month, however at this rate I still have around 6 months ahead of me before the CCF is history.

My question is how to make YNAB useful for me in the meantime. I have to pay off my CC in full each month (it's an AmEx charge card) so my TBB figure is always in the red. The TBB figure at the end of each month is usually $1k better off than the previous month (which is great) BUT I only get to see this once the month ends. Thus, my spending discipline is in spite of YNAB's help, rather than because of it.

I'd really like to get some value out of YNAB before I pay off my CCF. Is there a trick that I can use to make the YNAB figures mean something for the next 6 months? 

Thanks for any advice... 

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  • Don't overspend your categories, or if you do, adjust your budget to cover the overspending. And make sure that you spend enough using your credit cards so that you have enough money in the payment category so that by the time you make the payment you have enough in the category to do so.

    Each month, budget that money to the card payment category to reduce the float, and you won't be in as tight a bind with continuing your credit card spending.

    Like
  • Thanks for the reply, but I confess I'm not sure I follow you. I've already aggressively reduced the amounts in all of my categories (which is why I'm saving $1k per month), but I can't reduce them to the extent that TBB is green (I still have to pay my mortgage...)

    I also have to pay off my AmEx in full each month. For sure, I'm riding the float, but I would hope that, at the time when I really need the help of a tool such as YNAB, it could provide better information other than "you're overbudgeted".

    Like
  • ChippyAft said:
    but I can't reduce them to the extent that TBB is green (I still have to pay my mortgage...)

     

    Uh, you kinda have to. TBB must be zero (or higher) otherwise you have money assigned to your categories that you don't have.

    Rule 1 is Give Every Dollar a Job. You can't give a job to money you don't have.

     

    You can't use money to get off the float if you need it to pay the rent. When you get income, then you ask yourself what the money needs to do until the next time you get paid, and give it those jobs.

    Like
  • But (if I understand correctly) isn't that the reality of the Credit Card Float situation? This month's money going to pay last months bills, etc?

    Although I'm riding the float, my cash situation is good and all debts are paid off on time, I'd just like to use YNAB to show me some useful data whilst I'm on the journey.

    From the thread I've seen, there appear to be quite a few people in this situation  Isn't there a  useful way for these people to use YNAB for the months during which they are paying down their CCF?

    Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      ChippyAft I explained how to do it above in my first response. But you can't use money you need for rent or other spending to get off the float. It has to be one or the other.  And you can't use money you don't have to get off the float.

      Like 1
  • Apologies if I'm being stupid (or if I haven't explained myself well). In a nutshell:

    • I am meeting all of my current financial obligations
    • In addition, I'm paying off my Credit Card Float at the rate of $1k per month

    So I AM meeting my obligations in both areas (although more slowly in the case of the CCF). And in 6 months time I will be debt free. But I'd like to understand if  YNAB can show me useful budgeting information (and not just a red TBB figure) throughout the month until that time?

    Like
    • ChippyAft How are you budgeting for your monthly expenses? What do your budget categories look like? At a minimum, it should be your categories that are overdrawn, not your To Be Budgeted. When you get paid, budget only exactly that dollar amount to your categories. Start with rent, bills, and food. Pay down your credit card float if and only if you have enough money to cover any bills and obligations that will need to be paid before your next paycheck.

       

      If you're currently deciding how much money you'd like to spend each month, making TBB red into the amount you plan on spending, and only putting money in your categories to refill it, that's where the problem lies. I did this on my first budget, too. Give every dollar a job, and only give jobs to the dollars you have are fundamental for correcting the red TBB.

      Like 1
      • ChippyAft
      • Chippyaft
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      slightlysmall Thanks. 

      Even on the day I get paid, my TBB is already red due to the amounts on the credit cards from the previous month. I want to continue to pay my credit cards off in full (I have to with my AmEx and I would incur interest charges on the other accounts).

      For example:

      • Just before pay day, my checking account is around $1k in credit
      • My credit cards total around $4k in debt
      • Then I get paid around $6k (current account to $7k)
      • Then I pay off my credit cards (down to $3k in credit)
      • Then I budget absolute essentials to the tune of $5k. Around $3k of these are paid using credit cards.
      • Then the monthly cycle starts again (with the CCF reduced by $1k).

      So I am paying off my CCF. And paying my obligations. But the TBB is negative due to the above. 

      Does that make sense?

      Like
      • ChippyAft
      • Chippyaft
      • 1 yr ago
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      nolesrule hopefully my example below helps explain.

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      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
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      ChippyAft I see what you are doing. Here's what you are doing...

      You aren't working your way off the float. You are only pretending to be working your way off the float by budgeting money you don't have to eliminate the float.

      You are doing things in the wrong order.

      You can only add money to your CC payment categories to decrease the float when you have money in your TBB that is not needed elsewhere in your budget. if you want to get off the float faster, it means you need to put less money in your other categories while still maintaining a TBB at ZERO.

      I'll say it again, you're fooling yourself into thinking you're reducing the float. But you aren't as long as you have a negative TBB.

      Like 3
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      jenmas WordTenor HappyDance Can I get some help in here? Perhaps I'm not explaining it clearly.

      Like
    • Hi ChippyAft ! I've caught up on this thread—thanks for those additional details! Your To be Budgeted shouldn't be negative. That means you're budgeting more money than you have and can't trust your budget.

      What's happening in your budget, seems at  odds with what you're describing... so if you’d like, you can enable Support Access for your account, which will allow me to take a peek at your budget.

      If you decide to do so, make sure to use the @ feature to ping me! Please include the name of the budget—and I'll take a look. 

      Like
      • ChippyAft
      • Chippyaft
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Nicole at YNAB Hi Nicole - thanks. I've allowed access. Please be gentle :)

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      • HappyDance
      • YNABing consistently since 2014
      • HappyDance
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule 

      We really need dakinemaui 's step-by-step guide for eliminating the credit card float. Any chance you have one of those posts linked or saved somewhere?  YNAB provides two distinct methods for doing it, but dakinemaui  has/had a third method to navigate through the minefield.

      Edit:  sent a pm in the old forum with a link to this thread.  I may have said something about free pizza, so play along if someone asks where the food is.

      Like
    • Hi ChippyAft — Thanks for enabling access to your account so I can take a look at your budget!

      I sent you an email with a video, going over the details of what I'm seeing. Once we figure it out, we can update the thread! For now, let's address the overbudgeting—then work on the credit cards.

      Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Sorry! Saw the ping while I was in the process of switching phones and have been distracted by that for the past few hours. I've relied heavily on dakinemaui's posts on the old forum every time I've had to discuss the float.

      Like
    • HappyDance Did someone say, pizza? :)

      In all the years of explaining the "forum method" for riding the CC float, I've come to realize that trying to float more than is possible in the real world is counter-productive. Injecting an arbitrary amount of future credit into the budget lets you sit there with fat True Expense categories (that you must put on the CC) but loses the sense of scarcity which is the magic at the heart of YNAB. What I've outlined elsewhere in this thread respects those real-world constraints and timing within the budget and is what I would recommend to anyone trying to ride the CC float.

      Like 3
  • I guess I don't understand how the the float works then - apologies if I've misled you. 6 months ago my credit card debts were around $9k.  Now they're down to $4k so I'm happy that I'm moving in the right direction. Perhaps I should just focus on continuing to save money and start using YNAB properly when I pay off my debts.

    Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
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      ChippyAft What would happen if you decided to stop using credit cards today? Would you have the money to pay off the credit card balance and still pay for everything else in your budget in cash? The answer is No.

      That is why the float is a problem, and that is why you need to set aside money specifically for getting off the float.

      The float is past credit card debt, not covered by budgeted purchases, even though it's zero interest debt. So you don't have money reserved to pay it back and you've been relying on future income to pay for today's purchases. But because you have enough cash in your accounts and are continuing to use the cards, you can maintain that zero interest rate float loan without overdrafting your account.

      The only way to get off the float is to reserve money in your budget to get off the float Money that you have that is not used elsewhere in your budget.
       

      Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
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      ChippyAft What you need to do is complete your regular budget, and then if you still have any money leftover in your TBB, budget that in your CC payment category to reduce the float. if you don't, you aren't able to reduce the float.

      it's really no different than figuring out how much extra money you have that can be earmarked to paying down debt. Take care of your budget, and then use what's left.

      Like 1
    • ChippyAft Using YNAB properly now will help you pay off debts sooner with less risk of getting caught with insufficient cash for the purchases that cannot be made with credit.

      Like
  • ChippyAft said:
    Just before pay day, my checking account is around $1k in credit
    My credit cards total around $4k in debt
    Then I get paid around $6k (current account to $7k)
    Then I pay off my credit cards (down to $3k in credit)
    Then I budget absolute essentials to the tune of $5k. Around $3k of these are paid using credit cards.
    Then the monthly cycle starts again (with the CCF reduced by $1k).

     

    You get paid $6k. That's awesome! But your order for what you do when you get paid is backward. Credit cards, not even paying them down, should never, ever be first.

    First you budget absolute essentials to the tune of $5k.

    Then you have $1k to pay down, but not off, your credit cards.

    Anything you then spend on your credit cards should be already accounted for in the "essentials" at $5k, which means you won't add more debt to your credit cards. In three months, you'll finish paying these off, though it will cost you in interest. Then you have an extra $1k for your budget every month.

     

    I'm simplifying, but the most important thing is: budget for essentials before any paydown of credit cards happens.

    Like 1
  • Thanks slightlysmall - that does make sense. But it also seems that route would cost me more money (in interest). If I understand correctly, my options are:

    1. Continue with the approach that I have taken so far. Benefit: no interest charges. Drawback: I'm not using YNAB properly, so don't get the budget visibility benefits. Or...
    2. Partially pay off my credit cards. Benefit: YNAB visibility and insights. Drawback: interest charges.

    Both approaches will get me to being debt free within a few months. I need to choose whether using YNAB properly is worth the extra interest charges.

    Or maybe there's a third way that I'm missing?

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      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
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      ChippyAft Approach 3 is the one I outlined in my original post that you seem to keep ignoring... and it's the only way to manage the float in YNAB.

      Continue paying your card statement balance every month. Budget your spending categories normally. Do not let your TBB go red. Use leftover money to budget to the payment category to work your way off the float.

      The approach you are using so far that leaves you with a red TBB doesn't actually get you off the float. You are just shifting the float from your payment category to your TBB.

      Like 4
      • ChippyAft
      • Chippyaft
      • 1 yr ago
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      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I really appreciate your help. Please don't think I'm ignoring your advice, it's just taking me a little time to completely understand.

      nolesrule said:
      Do not let your TBB go red.

       The problem is that my TBB is never anything other than red (per my earlier example) so I'm trying to get my head around this. YNAB automatically puts my CC payments into next months CC budget. CC payments plus mortgage, utilities and food = red.

      Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
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      ChippyAft there is another option. Store the float amount in its own category. Negative budget enough money from the category so you can bring your TBB to Zero and also enough that you can budget your cc payment categories so the payment amounts match your account balances. 

      Each month the float category will reset to zero, so negative budget to the category's ending balance from the previous month. Every month you can budget extra money to this category, but don't let your TBB go negative. Rinse, repeat. You'll eventually get to zero. 

      It's important to make sure you negative budget the category to define your float amount that should carry over every month. 

      Like 5
  • nolesrule thanks - I think that makes sense. In a way, that's the approach that I've been taking but without using a specific category in YNAB (so I've been trying to keep the negative TBB number constant!)

    So just to confirm:

    1. I've created a new category group, "CC Float"
    2. Within this category group, I've created a category called "Float"
    3. I budget -$4k to this group, which brings the TBB to zero
    4. On pay day, I assign dollars to budgets and use YNAB in the normal way

    A couple of questions:

    How will the float category reset to zero? Do you mean that the float category for the new month will be zero by default? And in that case, do I just re-enter the float amount in the new month (minus $1k)?

    Do I need to do anything else with the float category? Or do I just keep it as a monthly reminder of progress?

    Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
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      ChippyAft that sounds right. You need to reset it each month to the final amount of the previous amount because YNAB doesn't allow you to carry over a negative category balance month to month. 

      Once you get the float category to zero while still keeping your budget in line, then you are off the float. 

      Like 4
      • ChippyAft
      • Chippyaft
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule that seems to be exactly what I was looking for - simple and effective. Thank you so much for your help and patience as I come up to speed with YNAB!

      Like 2
    • ChippyAft You do not need a separate float category. I'll make another post with details about riding the float with nYNAB.

      Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
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      dakinemaui No, he doesn't need a separate float category.  We discussed on the other forum just the other day. However I tried explaining that at the beginning of this thread and he didn't get it. The float category might be better for some people I guess, because it isolates the float from the mechanics.

      Like 1
    • nolesrule The problem with a float category is that it's impossible to know where the real cash must be used -- or whether there's even enough cash to do whatever needs to be done. The only "benefit" is that various categories can be full, giving the appearance of financial security but with reality being far different.

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      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
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      dakinemaui Really, you need one float category per card if your float is greater than the charges on a single card. if it's less, you're fine since the float, like anything else, is fungible in regards to card balances.

      As long as the payment category balance is larger than the float amount in the category and you aren't overspending/overbudgeting, you're fine. with the float category.

      Like
    • nolesrule said:
      As long as the payment category balance is larger than the float amount in the category and you aren't overspending/overbudgeting, you're fine. with the float category.

       Agreed. One can add a category, negative-budget that category every month -- which allows the payment categories to match the account balances -- and make sure the payment group Available is larger than the float category is negative. In essence, the net of the Float category and Payment group  must be non-negative.

      Seems simpler to me to keep the CC Payment categories non-negative and skip the float category. This also avoids the monthly negative budget entry, which does NOT play nicely with funds budgeted in the month following their receipt.

      Either way, TBB cannot be negative.

      Like 1
  • The way "riding the float" is supposed to work is that budgeted purchases made between the statement closing date and the payment due date is used to raise the CC Payment category sufficiently to cover the payment. Thus, the budgeted purchases you can consistently make impose a ceiling on the amount of float you can ride. In more severe cases, you can budget some of the income received between the close and due dates to sufficiently raise the CC Payment category. Budgeting income like this increases the amount of float you can ride, but you usually can't put your entire check toward the float, because there are some things that must be paid with cash. Thus, there is still a ceiling on the amount you can float.

    Since your CC Payment category goes negative following your payment, you are trying to float more than your budgeted purchases will allow. However, that money has to come from somewhere, and in fact, you've sent money that's earmarked for other uses to the CC company. You're deluding yourself into thinking that it's available in those other categories -- it's simply not there, and one or more of those category balances are flat out wrong.

    I suggest you own up to that reality and move enough money from an emergency fund or long-term categories to make the CC Payment category $0 immediately following your payment. In other words, cover the overspending in the Payment category. This sets up the budget to reflect the maximum amount of float available to you, and you have roughly 4 weeks to raise the CC Payment via budgeted purchases up to the new account balance. (Remember, the account balance on the closing date is the statement balance that you will have to pay 4 weeks later.)

    If you ever fail to make enough budgeted purchases before your payment, then you must again cover the overspending in the Payment category. This is hardly a surprise, so you might as well move funds in advance of your payment.

    Bottom line example: if you can consistently only make $3k in budgeted purchases each month, that's the maximum balance you can float without directly supplementing the payment with income. If you make $5k/mo and make $1k/mo in cash-only purchases (e.g., rent), then the maximum balance you can float is $4k. In that case, you must budget that $1k (since purchases will account for $3k) to the Payment category each month -- ideally before the payment.

    If you're using income received after the payment but in the same month to cover that overspent Payment category, you REALLY are behind. Again, just own up to that and reduce other categories to cover overspending immediately upon your payment. Those other categories are erroneous anyway, so why lie to yourself?

    Here's the crux of the matter: You've demonstrated that you do not run out of cash after making the payment, so just update the plan (a.k.a., budget) to reflect the reality of that cash you have remaining after your payment. NO RED ALLOWED -- TBB or categories. In other words, the real issue is that you're pretending you have more cash than you really do.

    Lastly, the only way to reduce the amount you're floating within the budget is to budget to the CC Payment category. (If you're directly supplementing the payment category with income, you need to budget MORE to the CC Payment category than required to take the post-payment Available to $0.) The idea is to gradually increase the amount left in the Payment category after your payment until it equals the account balance. That's paid-in-full status.

    Like 4
  • nolesrule said:
    I'll say it again, you're fooling yourself into thinking you're reducing the float. But you aren't as long as you have a negative TBB.

     Absolutely true. It's fine to reallocate the money that's not needed from the CC Payment category (leaving it at $0 immediately following the payment), because you'll build it up before the next payment. (The definition of riding the float, for interested readers.) What's not fine is pretending you have more money than you really do. I mean, why not budget $1,000,000 to the Hookers & Blow category, ignore the fact that TBB is -$999,000, and throw one heck of a rager? Probably because the entertainment, ahem, "providers" won't care about your fat category balance.

    Like 1
  • ChippyAft said:
    1. My credit cards total around $4k in debt
    2. Then I get paid around $6k (current account to $7k)
    3. Then I pay off my credit cards (down to $3k in credit)
    4. Then I budget absolute essentials to the tune of $5k. Around $3k of these are paid using credit cards.

    Statements #1 and #3 indicate you paid $1k to the CC companies. The problem is that you said you're making $3k of CC purchases per month (in statement #4). When riding the float, you must pay off all purchases from the preceding month, so something doesn't jive.

    It would make more sense if #1 was $6k in debt ($3k statement balance + $3k purchases between the close and due dates), then you pay down to $3k. You get a bill for $3k, but run the balance back up to $6k, etc.

    TBB should be non-negative through all of this. If TBB is negative, that's the first problem to fix.

    Like
  • ChippyAft said:
    But (if I understand correctly) isn't that the reality of the Credit Card Float situation? This month's money going to pay last months bills, etc?

    At the risk of being overly verbose given my other responses, I just wanted to respond to this fundamental question.

    You're correct that is the reality of riding the float -- this month's money goes toward last month's bills. However, you need to budget this month's money into the CC Payment category to reflect your intent to send it to the CC company. Most importantly, doing so reduces the amount that you can put elsewhere (e.g., in the rent category). At least it does if you don't let TBB go red/negative.

    Like
  • Firstly, I want to thank everyone for their help and comments - I really appreciate everyone trying to help me out here. 

    Please be assured that I’m not “delusional”, “lying”or “fooling myself” about the situation. I know I have an issue. It’s why I’m here and I’m doing my best to fix the problem.

    The good news is that I’ve made significant progress (in my eyes at least) over the past few months. Previously, I was significantly overdrawn at the end of each month. Those days are now firmly in the rear view mirror and I’m now attacking my credit cards and making good progress there as well.

    Unfortunately, I don’t have savings or any way to find the funds to simply pay off my cards. Believe me, I’ve often thought of that - it would be great, but sadly it’s just not going to happen this side of a lotto win. (And you have to buy lotto tickets for that...)

    YNAB has been a great help on this journey over the past few months. Just having to record every transaction has helped me save money. But I also set a budget that is $1k less than my income and stick to it. I get “scarcity” - and it’s helped a lot.

    Unfortunately, despite this, YNAB hasn’t seemed to reflect my progress and that was my question - how do I get it to be more representative during the time that I’m digging myself out of this hole. Sure, I’ve tried to keep the (red) TBB figure constant during the month, but the actual figure was pretty much arbitrary to me (and changed after my salary was paid).

    That’s why I think that nolesrule ‘s approach will help me. It’s simple and, most importantly, I understand it. Effectively, I now have two targets: firstly to keep within my monthly budget (and TBB green) and secondly to reduce the float category by $1k each month until I reach the promised land. It also means that I can continue to pay off my credit cards in full and not incur interest charges - which would be counter to what I’m trying to achieve.

    I apologise if I’m not using YNAB in the right way. I confess that I’ve really struggled to follow some of the posts and principles involved here. But I think I have a way ahead that I can work with now. Any other thoughts welcome, of course!

    Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
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      • Reported - view

      ChippyAft YNAB isn't designed for a person on the float that's trying to eliminate it, so you have to be very careful when you are on the float. The official recommendation has been to only make the payment you are budgeted for, but that would mean paying interest, which in my mind is ridiculous.

      Like 2
    • ChippyAft said:
      It also means that I can continue to pay off my credit cards in full and not incur interest charges

      I don't see that anyone is suggesting that you pay interest. Just understand that every dollar you send to the CC is a dollar that cannot be used elsewhere, so it's best to remove it from the plan/budget.

      Like
    • I take that back, one person did suggest paying interest. I would only suggest that if your balance is greater than the amount you can float (monthly CC purchases + monthly income - cash only expenses) and you cannot reduce the balance by robbing other categories within the budget.

      Like
    • dakinemaui Sorry for ruining your "no one" thought! I was trying to keep things simple, which, of course, getting off a float of this kind inherently isn't.

       

      For what it's worth ChippyAft , Dakinemaui knows why more about what they're talking about than I do. I've never been on a credit card float, and the issues I did have in the beginning of budgeting are ones they helped me through years ago.

      Like
    • slightlysmall Ha, no worries! This forum software is so difficult to read, and I just missed it, coming in late in the game. It's often difficult to tell if someone is trying to float more than is feasible and is likely to get caught with insufficient cash. (Not saying OP is or is not; I still can't tell.) For such cases, carrying a balance is the better choice until debt is down to the feasible level.

      Like 1
    • @dakinemaui  I do miss pages in threads, that's for sure... And yes, it's very hard to tell what exactly is going on with the OP. The YNAB method isn't intuitive if you're not used to it, especially when it comes to handle credit cards. Amazing and life-changing when it works out (My goodness are my finances in a different place than they were 2.5 years ago), but confusing at first.

      Like
  • ChippyAft and nolesrule  I am so impressed with your patience and persistence with each other.  ChippyAft you're clearly working hard and making good progress. Way to keep asking questions until you understood. You can do this!

    Like 3
  • I see an elephant in the room:

    The YNAB credit card payment method stumps even the very smartest newbies. All of our most brilliant users and the YNAB staff are turning themselves inside out to explain it. Poor ChippyAft who is doing a great job of debt paydown, still can't figure it out.

    I wish YNAB would address this extreme confusion with something that seems logical, that everyone can understand. I don't remember having this problem in Classic YNAB ever.

    Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Granny Bogle The "issue" with YNAB4 was different. There was nothing in the credit card management that told you what your payment should be. Of course, neither version was designed for riding the float, so essentially you have to ignore the functionality in both versions and do a workaround.

      I'm a big advocate of working your way off the float rather than using the built in methods and paying interest. It's a waste of money and will actually slow your progress.

      Like
    • Granny Bogle Actually, problems often existed with Classic, but people didn't realize it. For example, it was VERY common that people would get the debt within the budget (Pre-YNAB Debt category) larger than the debt in the real world (CC account balance).

      nYNAB has more feedback so problems are less likely to go unnoticed.

      Like
  • ChippyAft said:
    Unfortunately, I don’t have savings or any way to find the funds to simply pay off my cards.

     This is where you're misunderstanding, because every month you do find money to pay off the cards. The problem is that it's still earmarked elsewhere in the budget as available for various other purposes, which is the delusional part. The money is gone, but you don't seem to want to lower category balances to reflect that fact.

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  • Granny Bogle said:
    who is doing a great job of debt paydown

     Budgeting down debt at the expense of a negative TBB is not doing a great job. That's just shuffling things around giving the appearance of progress.

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      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui I think the confusion here was that the OP had budgeted the card payment categories as PIF rather than letting the balances ebb and flow naturally with budgeted purchases and payments, and that wasn't explained in any of the earlier posts when talking about the negative TBB.

      if that's not the case, then I agree.

      Like
    • nolesrule Hopefully that's the case, else they're in even worse shape. If there is money in the CC Payment categories, then following my suggestion of zeroing out the CC Payment category after making the payment would help fix TBB. I suspect, however, that one or more other categories will have to take a hit.

      Once all the red (TBB and categories) is eliminated, then they can think about budgeting back toward the payment categories while keeping everything green.

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