feeling trapped to keep ynab.......

I was a legacy user. When they announced the increase I canceled my account... I felt I was lied to and treated badly by the company but......................after trying many different alternatives, I just can't leave... UGGG!!! This pisses me off to no end.... I HATE giving my money to an unscrupulous company but I have to..... my husband and I both use ynab and have gone from 20k in cc debt to just 5 in less than 2 years and I WANT to be debt free!!! I am dissapointed but will pay the increase UNTIL I can find an alternative that feels right to me! Anyone else in the same boat?

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  • Definitively feeling some kind of way, there's a bunch of us who feel like hostage customers because YNAB ticks all the boxes of what we need and there simply isn't an alternative that is as good. 

    I absolutely need it for debt payoff, and I was in a position to buy myself two years at the current rate so my renewal at the higher rate won't be til March of 2024 and I'll deal with it then as I should be debt-free by 2023 anyway, so that would give me a year to see if I still want to keep YNAB or find an alternative

    Like 1
  • There are enough options that supply the basic needs of envelope budgeting that I’ll be fine without YNAB. They trashed the methodology that made it stand out in the first place, anyway. 

    Like 3
  • I'm sorry that the fee increase is making you feel this way.  As a new YNABer that just started in June 2021, when I saw the fee increase I was sad for about five seconds.  I came from using Quicken for many years and only went to Quicken because the MS Money program was being discontinued.  Since using YNAB, I am in much better financial shape and the Four Rules have been a tremendous help.

    I hope you take the Four Rules with you and that you can find an effective system that works for your family and at a price you deem more appropriate.

    Like 3
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      Steel Blue Orca Agreed.

      1. Give Every Dollar a Job

      2. Save for a Rainy Day

      3. Roll with the Punches

      4. Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck

      They make all the difference and don't require any particular software to implement.

      Like 7
    • Habanero Salsa True. They don't require a particular software. But "this is what I'm looking for in a software" is a different question than "how can I get/stay out of debt/manage my money."  YNAB has a particularly useful set of how the software works due to that/how they've chosen to implement those four rules. Thus far, for many, it is the only one that checks all the "makes it easier to use the four rules" boxes.

      Like 4
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Fuzzball Meows If you know the rules, plenty of software makes them easy to implement.

      Frankly, they screwed up the four rules when they moved to the web and never really recovered. The people using the new four rules are missing out of most of the power of the approach, they just don't know it. If it works for you, that's great. Most likely, it would've worked better before they moved to this new YNAB, both software and company.

      Like 2
  • I don't like the bait and switch feel to this, either.

    That being said, what IS is worth to get out of debt and have financial peace of mind?

    $20,000 in debt down to $5,000 is a change in net worth of $15,000. In 2 years.

    For really simple math, let's say you paid $100 per year to use the software, so $200 in those 2 years.

    That means there was a net gain of $13,000. JUST for using the software. Not for actually changing your income at all. That is a 6500% increase in your investment of the $200 it cost you to use YNAB.

    That seems like a pretty smart investment if you ask me.

    Like 4
  • Keep an eye on ActualBudget. Give it 6 months and have another look.

    I realised over this fiasco, that it is the method that saved me, not the company. I have my small  business account in ActualBudget, and I am sending my personal budget back into YNAB4 to try that out.

    (Porting back from nynab is not easy; starting fresh a much easier option.  I have managed to "side load" the YNAB classic app on my phone ( as I did not have the app when I was using ynab4, I can't resurrect it from the store; so I am "side-loading" -- the method developers use to test their new apps on their iPhones.)

    I am enjoying ActualBudget a lot. When I have finished trying to shoehorn my data back into YNAB4 I will find out if I like it. A bit frustrating at the moment. But multi-month view is fantastic. The original rule 4! fantastic. No goals: back to putting the monthly amount in the category name. Not being US I could not import anyway, so that is no change for me. (And it is FREE!  Well, I mean, I already paid for it, and it doesn't ask for more.)

    Like 9
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Cirrus errgh, im so tempted to reboot ynab 4. i have 17000+ transactions to deal with. I don't want to give the history up.

      Like
      • alexmidd
      • alexmidd
      • 2 wk ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Cirrus Yes, I’m going to try Actual, which looks good already although it does need some tweaks. I reckon $4 a month (around £3 at current rates) is a fair price to pay and the more of us that do this the more likely the developer is going to have the incentive to develop it further. I love YNAB, and *could* afford the new price, but I can’t really justify it to myself when there are other options that are cheaper and do the same job. It’s certainly one to keep an eye on.

      Like 3
  • You aren’t trapped; you have Stockholm Syndrome.  The rules of zero based budgeting don’t need this software to be accomplished.  It’s just that this company is the one that taught them to you and got you to use them successfully so you feel that it’s “their way” of doing things. 
     

    Once you break the mindset and realize that it’s not the software but the actions, it becomes much easier to see how the other software will work. Yes, the interfaces are different. Yes, there will be a new learning curve.  But I guarantee it will be a smaller one than the one you had with nYNAB because you’ve already mastered the “give every dollar a job” mentality. 

    Like 11
  • I'm just too principled to stick around. I much preferred YNAB 4 and only finally switched when I had days to lock in the $45 price. YNAB 4 is no longer an option for me as I require direct import and I had a workaround at the time with PocketSense but it's too much work to upkeep. The new prices are ridiculous and price out people who need YNAB the most. That sickens me.

    Like 11
  • I'm giving ActualBudget a fair shot.  Decided against importing my data, so basically did a fresh start.  But pretty much used the same numbers for the category balances that I had in YNAB.  I would like to try that other one everybody's talking about (Banktivity) but I don't have apple products, so that's not an option.  I really like Actual so far, and can deal with manually importing transactions.  Sometime down the road, I think he's planning on adding direct import, so we'll see if/when that happens.

    Anyway, yeah, I don't feel trapped, I've found a suitable alternative, and there are a couple others that just didn't quite make the grade,  but would have been fine in the absence of Actual.

    Like 6
  • I've been a user for 2.5 years and I'm having trouble understanding some of the rage. What I'm seeing is that many are rage cancelling out of principal rather than looking at the value of what they are getting. Of course, I only experienced a $14 increase from $85 so I can understand that a 100% increase stings. But "bait and switch" seems a bit harsh. If you've been paying $49, you've been paying FAR less than many of us for far longer.

    Options? Quite frankly, free software sucks most of the time. You want updates? Good luck. You're going to get what you pay for out there. And when the next "free" software program gets big enough, guess what? They'll start charging because they need to pay developers, market the software, etc. This loop will repeat itself.

    Intuit charges as much if not more and does less IMO. I was a long time Quicken user and I'm not looking back.

    Price increases happen all around us. Grocery prices are through the roof but we still shop at our local grocery store. No one seems to bat an eye paying $8/gallon for a $.99 bottle water at the store. Gas prices are $5.20 in Bay Area but we still buy gas. This is all normal and I'd bet many of you are paying Apple a pretty penny for iPhones every 2 years, never questioning their hugely inflated prices (Samsung too). Wages, salaries and healthcare expenses are increasing for YNAB too. It's not all just about "greedy developers" as many suggest in these threads.

    Did YNAB launch this increase perfectly? Heck no! There are far better ways to push a price increase than a neat little pop-up in app. Still, let's put our $100 into a company that actually cares about our financial well being. Quite frankly, for $100, they have had a bigger impact in our lives than any financial councilor or money manager has ever done for most of us.

    Not trolling here...just trying to put some perspective out there...and maybe defend YNAB a bit.

    Like 6
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      djlott "Bait and switch" isn't harsh when they grandfather one price, change it, and try to gaslight the world that they aren't changing it.

      There's plenty of value to be had from other envelope budgeting systems that haven't done this to their longest term -- and often most supportive -- users.

      Like 5
      • djlott
      • djlott
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa That's fair. I hadn't realized that they promised $49 for life until DosBoss57 mentioned it. That's hard to get over.

      Like
    • djlott 

      I have looked at the value.  For $45/year I could justify it.  I have no access to direct import (international user) which is probably the bulk cost of ongoing maintenance for YNAB.  I have no debt besides my mortgage, so the new loan feature is not useful to me in any way.  I don't use targets or goals.  Credit cards are paid in full (every month) and always have been - the CC handling in YNAB doesn't do much for me either because I always just pay my statement amount and don't need to know how much I can send (it's all budgeted already anyway).  I migrated back to YNAB4 and found the following:

      1.  I like that the category button turns yellow if I haven't funded enough.

      2.  Although I use mostly the web interface on a desktop or laptop, not having mobile access is not a deal breaker for me.

      In other words, those two features are nice but they are not an extra $45/year nice. 

      If they'd sent out an e-mail saying "we know this is what we said and what we did but it's unsustainable and we're sorry but we need to change our policy" it would have played very differently.  If they had raised us the same percentage as what they are raising non-legacy users (about 16%) it would have played very differently.  Instead they doubled the price with little warning (my renewal was up in December) and told me I was imagining the terms of my original upgrade.  I wouldn't stand for that from any other service provider, why would I accept it from YNAB?

      Like 7
    • djlott Raging against rage a bit, eh? That’s an interesting approach. 

      Like
      • Bad Mister Frosty
      • Clayfighter Champion
      • Navy_Blue_Mixer.15
      • 10 days ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      djlott I'll be frank.  You don't see the real issue because you weren't one of the early adopters who got the lower price--and thus you have basically zero sympathy for those folks who have gotten a far better deal than you did.   If you aren't a legacy user, then in my opinion you don't get to "defend YNAB".  The fact is, the company is making a money grab, pure and simple.  When Jesse decided to go subscription/online and tried to tout the new metric "Age of Money" as some new-fangled awesomeness, many in the YNAB community called BS on it.  I didn't jump into the fray, though I was a YNAB4 user and agreed with the old guard.  And for those who are saying that this must be the work of the new CEO, I say BS.  Jesse Meacham already showed, with the implementation of nYNAB as an online subscription model, that he is more interested in profits than helping people.  Now, ordinarily this wouldn't fire me up, but when a company bases its culture on "helping folks" in budgeting and then switches to profiteering, that's a different story.  

      I am not a legacy user in the sense of having a reduced-price subscription.  I actually turned to nYNAB earlier this year because my YNAB4 program stopped working after an OS update to my desktop computer.  But two things happened.  First, for whatever reason, YNAB4 started working again, and second the company announced the price increase and tried to gaslight folks.  Subsequently I canceled my subscription and will use YNAB4 until the wheels fall off.  I can afford the price hike, no problem, and yes, it is still a better program than many out there.  But I have chosen to cancel out of principle.  Yes, there are still people out there who make their major life decisions based on principles of trust and integrity.  Some of you would do well to learn from them.

      Like 5
    • Vibrant
    • No more counting dollars, we'll be counting stars
    • vibrant
    • 2 wk ago
    • 10
    • Reported - view
    djlott said:
    Quite frankly, for $100, they have had a bigger impact in our lives than any financial councilor or money manager has ever done for most of us.

     True. YNAB was revolutionary for me in 2018, when I started in the same position as most new users - in debt, not a clue where my paycheck vanished to every month. YNAB turned my financial life around.

    Still, let's put our $100 into a company that actually cares about our financial well being.

    But nearly every "improvement" they've made in the past four years has been geared toward attracting and converting new customers, not retaining customers like me who have followed the method and grown beyond the basics. DOES YNAB actually care about my [long term] financial wellbeing? It doesn't much feel like it. 

    Like 10
  • djlott said:
    If you've been paying $49, you've been paying FAR less than many of us for far longer.

     That still doesn't justify doubling the price...we were promised a price for life...

     

    djlott said:
    Grocery prices are through the roof but we still shop at our local grocery store.

     Agreed but we all have to eat to live....budgeting is useful but not a necessity

    djlott said:
    Quite frankly, for $100, they have had a bigger impact in our lives than any financial councilor or money manager has ever done for most of us.

     Still doesn't justify doubling the price when we were promised a price for life....you can argue that all day but the truth is that they lied....PERIOD !!!

    Like 2
      • djlott
      • djlott
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      DosBoss57 I think you have a fair argument if you were promised $49 for life. Certainly if that was to make the switch to the web platform over the YNAB4 software. Quite frankly if that is the case, then I don't know how they could increase the price for legacy users.

      I guess I would ask you "what does justify a price increase"? Based on the argument you presented, for you there may be none. So moving on may be the only satisfying answer.

      It sounds more like they reneged vs. lied but I guess that's a matter of perspective. Both can be true based on the view point.

      Like 1
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      djlott From my perspective, what would justify a price increase would be increased server, storage, and bandwidth costs. What wouldn't is expansion of support I don't need and addition of features, since the latter was one of the justifications of the subscription model in the first place.

      Like 4
      • DosBoss57
      • Sales Manager
      • Sky_Blue_Drum.14
      • 2 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      djlott I'm open to price increases. It happens all the time and it happens everywhere. My issue is that , yes, I did make the move to nYNAB because I was "promised" a price freeze. Having said that, if they had increased the rate to something more reasonable, I don't think as many people would have complained. A bunch of us kicked and screamed when they made the move from the app to the web based app but I don't remember it being to this extent. Personally, I thought that 49 bucks a year was reasonable at the time. Had they increased to , say, 60 bucks at this point, I think there would have been a little less jumping up and down.  All this to say that YNAB used to be about the ideology of of managing money...that's not the case anymore. I have to admit that I will probably bite the bullet on this because I like the software, I can afford it and I'm too old to really want to put in the time to learn something new....even if it probably wouldn't take that much effort...I have bigger fish to fry.

      Like 2
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      DosBoss57 I remember at the time that YNAB4 was something like three years old and cost $40-ish (it's been a while and I was getting this second hand) and that $45 a year was therefore still a tripling of the cost. It was pretty unpopular. All the more so since I don't think the introduction of features has even remotely kept up with the increased cost.

      Like 1
      • srg
      • srg
      • 10 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view
      djlott said:
      I think you have a fair argument if you were promised $49 for life.

       I was a YNAB4 user. I signed up for the new YNAB pretty much immediately. I was promised a 10% discount - not a set price - for life. I have every email saved (emphasis added):

      If you are new YNABer and sign up before January 31st, you can lock in a 10% lifetime discount, making it $45 per year right now. Or if you are a previous YNAB 4 user at all, just sign up with the same email you used to purchase YNAB 4 and you’ll lock in that same discount! 

      Like 2
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 10 days ago
      • 9
      • Reported - view

      srg That was the original offer until they could not get enough people over.  If you remember on the forums folks were trying nYNAB but coming back to YNAB4 and warning others that it was not even close to ready.  So for a short time, they sent out that if we moved by a certain date, I think January 31, 2016 the $45 was set for life.  If we did not take that deal, by that date, we would still get the 10%, only it would be on the current price.  I did not take the deal so I understand that I only get the 10% off the current price.  Now, I have to decide if it is still worth it to me.  Those that did take the deal should still be paying $45.  The thing is when you make a promise as a company, that is binding.

      Like 9
  • djlott said:
    I guess I would ask you "what does justify a price increase"?

    They have offered nothing to justify a 100% increase for me. I do 100% manual entry so all the money they are throwing at trying to keep imports working is lost on me. I've been using YNAB since 2014 so improved onboarding processes have zero impact. I know how to use the software so I don't need support or classes. The new loan feature is half-baked at best - they have actually officially said that it doesn't matter that the numbers it spits out are slightly inaccurate and it will just work itself out over time (what even?). Since YNAB seems to think comments made in a Reddit AMA are somehow gospel, where is the improved reimbursement handling that was promised "soon" back in 2017 or 2018? Not to mention, YNAB didn't do that much to improve my financial life. When I started I didn't have credit card debt, I was maxing out retirement and doing monthly taxable investing, I was 3 or 4 months away from paying off my student loans, I bought my next car for cash with money that I had saved up before YNAB, and paying off my mortgage early is not the best use of my money.

    Like 8
  • jenmas said:
    where is the improved reimbursement handling that was promised "soon" back in 2017 or 2018?

     Wow, I totally remember that now that you mention it!  There definitely was several very pointed messages from support about that.  I forgot after all these years of making nominal amounts in categories or fudging with monopoly money. Geez.

    Like 1
  • djlott said:
    If you've been paying $49, you've been paying FAR less than many of us for far longer.

     Personally, I thought $84 was insane.  I said never no way, $50 MAX (and I was at $45).  I just neglected to come up with a Plan B, but it was gnawing at me over the years.  Hate feeling trapped by binary code.  So it's just Plan B time, no biggie.

    Like 3
  • Not $49, $45. And for me that's about what it's worth. 

    djlott said:
    What I'm seeing is that many are rage cancelling out of principal rather than looking at the value of what they are getting.

    Not me. I'm moving to Banktivity that does everything for 30% less than YNAB's new cost. Their direct import runs circle around YNAB's and their investment tracking is incredible.

    If you're newish to YNAB and budgeting and you need the education they provide, then I can see a case being made for the new price although even then I still feel like it's overpriced for what you get. Unfortunately, those who really need it the most can't afford it.

    Like 5
    • Superbone that is not one that I looked into so I will be looking into it

      Like
      • DosBoss57
      • Sales Manager
      • Sky_Blue_Drum.14
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Not me. I'm moving to Banktivity

      Unfortunately Banktivity doesn't work in Canada

      Like
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      DosBoss57 How can that be? In my Discord channel we have international users switching from YNAB, including Canadian.  

      Like
    • DosBoss57 Banktivity most certainly works in Canada. I have it connected to all of the institutions I deal with including TD, Scotiabank, Rogers Bank, Canadian Tire etc. They even have RRSP and TFSA accounts.

      Like
      • DosBoss57
      • Sales Manager
      • Sky_Blue_Drum.14
      • 9 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Khaki Sander Thanks...but in a later response I stated that I had mistakenly confused this software with another....My issue with Banktivity is that it only has an iPhone app....I am an Android user and this is a deal-breaker for me

      Like 2
    •  DosBoss57 Ahh okay, my apologies. Didn't see your other post regarding only being an Android user. That's too bad because as I use Banktivity more and more, I do enjoy working with it. Good luck on whichever platform you land on. Cheers!

      Like
  • Habanero Salsa said:
    3. Roll with the Punches

     It just never occurred to me that YNAB would be the company throwing the Punches.

    Like 11
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      glynab 😄I rolled, all right. I rolled right out of the ring. Going to take my fight to a new venue.

      Like 1
  • I'm a legacy user that knew it was only a 10% discount for life but I looked at the 'value' just like YNAB told me to and determined that it is not worth $90 a year to me.  I have ynab 4 up and running and starting in January I will go to that exclusively and shut down my nYNAB account.(want to close out the year and my subscription ends in January)  I'll miss direct import a little bit because it is handy to catch things I miss. but my wife and I do a pretty good job on manual entry so its not a huge deal.    Luckily for me I'm fairly adaptable so don't have any/many 'deal breakers' so finding an alternative if Y4 quits on me will not be difficult.

    Like 4
  • With inflation they either have to get more subscribers or charge more.  I think they have to pay a fee for each subscriber to have access to bank accounts, and so they don't get to keep the entire amount from new subscribers.  They also have a reward system so that if you refer someone and they sign up, you get a free month or something.  As a legacy user you can still download the free version, but it was taking me hours every month to reconcile.  That's why I upgraded to the paid version, and I'm still happy to pay for the convenience of having new YNAB download transactions for me. 

    Like 1
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 13 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Budget Conquistador Or cut expenses.

      Like 2
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 10 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Budget Conquistador Out of curiosity how was reconciling any different between versions for you? Either you entered the transactions rightly or wrongly and any time you open YNAB (old or new) you can see if the balances match up. Reconciling is heralded as such a big deal but all it is is an extra step for me that does nothing more than confirming the cleared balance is correct any time i log in.  

      Like 1
      • Budget Conquistador
      • Ready for the next big adventure
      • Khaki_Screwdiver.8
      • 10 days ago
      • Reported - view

      SgtBatten It's a problem I created in part myself by having multiple credit cards in order to maximize bonus money on purchases, one for groceries, one for gas, one for eating out, etc.   Reconcile problems came from forgetting transactions, entering them multiple times, entering wrong amounts, entering wrong dates, selecting the wrong account, and Amazon takes a single purchase and divides it into multiple transactions and some will clear this month and some next month.  With the online version though it's easy because the correct transactions are downloaded, and matched to manual ones.  If there is a mistake it is in something we entered by hand that didn't link to a downloaded transaction, and those are easy to identify and fix.

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 10 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Budget Conquistador Ahh, you rely on direct import to reconcile now. Sure i can understand that... sorta (because it's still not available for me).

      I actually do a little sneaky thing using tasker on my phone. Thankfully since digital drivers licences came out I've had no need for a wallet any more. So a few years ago I started using tasker to intercept google/samsung pay notifications and enter the transaction into my budget using the YNAB API. It takes care of putting it in the right account for me based on which card I used. And seeing as I tap my phone everywhere except at home (online shopping) it pretty much takes care of entering transactions manually automatically.

      Like 2
  • Budget Conquistador said:
    As a legacy user you can still download the free version

     YNAB4 is not "free" - you have a paid for license key that allows you to continue using it.

    Like 5
      • Budget Conquistador
      • Ready for the next big adventure
      • Khaki_Screwdiver.8
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      jenmas The download is free.  You had to have paid for a license years ago to use it, but as a legacy user it is free going forward. 

      Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 13 days ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Budget Conquistador that's not how it works. Yes the download is "free" but after your 34-day trial, it doesn't work unless you buy the license. The license has no expiration date. It's like saying you bought a DVD years and years ago but when you watch it now, you are watching it for "free". No you're not. You are merely continuing to use a product you already own.

      Like 6
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 13 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Budget Conquistador Is my paid-off car "free"? No? Neither is YNAB4, just because you can continue to use it after paying for it.

      Like 1
      • Budget Conquistador
      • Ready for the next big adventure
      • Khaki_Screwdiver.8
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      jenmas We just have different perspectives.  I would say we can go pay for a movie at the theater, or watch a DVD we already own for free.  You're right though, technically not free.

      Like
      • Budget Conquistador
      • Ready for the next big adventure
      • Khaki_Screwdiver.8
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa It's just my perspective.  I could buy a new car and start making payments, but would rather drive the car that is already paid off "for free" from my perspective. Once the money is spent I don't look back I guess. I'm probably in the minority though. 

      Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 13 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Budget Conquistador "already paid for" or "without additional expense" would be my way to describe it. Sunk costs are sunk as they taught us in accounting a million years ago.  But to your point additional use is "free" since there are no incremental costs associated with it. 

      Like 1
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 13 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Budget Conquistador “At no additional cost” would probably be the correct phrase, at least according to marketers.

      Like 1
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 13 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Herman Oh oops, you already said that, sorry!

      Like 2
  • Annieland said:
    How can that be? In my Discord channel we have international users switching from YNAB, including Canadian.  

     Sorry about the misunderstanding...I confused it with another package. My issue with Banktivity is that the phone app is iPhone only....I'm an android guy....stupid me , I guess!!!

    Like 3
  • Seabass said:
    So for a short time, they sent out that if we moved by a certain date, I think January 31, 2016 the $45 was set for life. 

    I think you (and many others) may be misremembering. January 31, 2016 was the deadline for new users to secure the 10% lifetime discount (again, not a fixed $ amount). There was never an offer of $45/year for life. 

    Like
    • srg Even *if* people are misremembering, the fact that there are SO MANY PEOPLE who understood that, means that YNAB did a poor job communicating this distinction.  Further, they used the word "grandfathered" and did NOT raise the price in 2017 which can't have done anything besides contributing to further confusion.  They need to own at least part of that.

      Like 5
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 10 days ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view
      srg said:
      January 31, 2016 was the deadline for new users to secure the 10% lifetime discount (again, not a fixed $ amount).

       srg I think you are the one who is mistaken. The soft launch was happening at the end of 2015 and it wasn't going well - the migration tool basically broke and they took it offline for a decent chunk of time. They may have tried to set a January 2016 deadline, but they did not stick to that at all. I didn't subscribe to nYNAB until December 18, 2017 (as duly noted in my account register) and I only did it then to get the $45 discounted rate before it went away in January 2018.

      Like 4
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 10 days ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      jenmas Heh I didn't even know until last year people were/are able to migrate their YNAB4 data.  My nYNAB budget starts from 2/2/16 (I guess I went for the Jan. 31 deadline as I understood it).  I had to do a whole ceremonious archiving of my 2009-2016 YNAB4 data which made me 😢.

      Like 3
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 10 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view
      Annieland said:
      Heh I didn't even know until last year people were/are able to migrate their YNAB4 data.

      The migration tool crashed within the first week of the soft launch I think. Then it was offline for a few months I think, so you probably started your trial while it wasn't working. Once it was back online I think it was part of the start up wizard.

      Like 2
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 10 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      jenmas Yup, mine ends in mid January and I thought I recalled that I was days away from missing out on the $45 price point. This was mid January of 2018 that I finally bit the bullet. I had migrated my data from YNAB 4 multiple times at this point while trialing the software and I was an expert at doing it. The migration process was always a little funky and you would end up with funds in hidden categories. It always took a bit of massaging of data afterward. So you could say I came along kicking and screaming.

      ETA: Ironically enough, I am now in the process of migrating all my data back to YNAB 4. You can't beat free already paid for.

      Like 2
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 9 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      srg I am sorry, I have an excellent memory.  I remember clearly having to make that choice at that time.  I also remember that they said that the 10% would always be available as long as you had your key code to YNAB4 (and maybe prior versions as I did not concern myself with that detail).  This turned out to be true as I decided to switch in 2019 and I have the 10% discount. So if your version was correct, I would not have been eligible for the 10% after that deadline. Now they may have had to offer the $45 again in 2018 but I was not looking for a switch and may have ignored it.  What I know for sure is nYNAB was not ready for the big leagues and they were offering big deals to fill the seats.  It is now a better product, but still not what was promised when it launched. 

      Like 1
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 9 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tape (mmille) How could it be misremembering?  What is the "deal" of 10%?  It was always going to be 10% for YNAB4 folks.  So what sweetened the pot to make so many users jump in at that time?  Logic alone makes it obvious along with most peoples memories. I do wonder if the deal was offered on the forum though and of course that is gone. Hmmmmm

      Like 1
    • Seabass I'm not arguing with you.  I also believe we were promised a locked in PRICE.  But if, as some suggest, that's not what was offered then there are a lot of people who are "remembering wrong", as it were.  That's a lot of people to misunderstand something if it wasn't said...

      Like
      • Seabass
      • Seabass
      • 9 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tape (mmille) I am sorry if comment came off wrong.  I was actually agreeing with your response and looking at the logic of it.  It becomes even clearer that the "Even *if* people are misremembering"  does not hold.

      Like
      • DosBoss57
      • Sales Manager
      • Sky_Blue_Drum.14
      • 9 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tape (mmille) True...true....true

      Like
      • srg
      • srg
      • 9 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      jenmas What I said:

      January 31, 2016 was the deadline for new users to secure the 10% lifetime discount (again, not a fixed $ amount).

      What YNAB said:

      If you are new YNABer and sign up before January 31st, you can lock in a 10% lifetime discount, making it $45 per year right now. Or if you are a previous YNAB 4 user at all, just sign up with the same email you used to purchase YNAB 4 and you’ll lock in that same discount!

      I am not mistaken; 1/31/2016 was the deadline for new users (i.e., non-YNAB4 users) to sign up for nYNAB and secure the early bird 10% lifetime discount for themselves. (Originally, the same deadline applied to YNAB4 users as well; in late December 2015, YNAB eliminated the deadline for YNAB4 users so they could sign up for nYNAB at any time in the future and still receive the 10% lifetime discount)

      In context, I was replying to Seabass  who misremembers that YNAB “sent out that if we moved by a certain date, I think January 31, 2016 the $45 was set for life.”  Seabass was mistaken, and I was clarifying what the 1/31/2016 deadline actually applied to.

      Like 1
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 7 days ago
      • Reported - view

      srg here is the YNAB Blog post from 6 Jan 2016. I suspect that they will be relying on this as it just says 10% for former YNAB 4 folk. 

      https://web.archive.org/web/20160215153845/http://www.youneedabudget.com/blog/post/launch-update-day-five-your-frequently-asked-questions-answered

      Like
  • Sky Blue Tape (mmille) said:
    Even *if* people are misremembering

     Not *if*…

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160101160419/http://www.youneedabudget.com/blog/post/the-new-ynab-is-here

    Some of you YNAB 4 users have wanted more time to lock in the lifetime 10% discount, especially as it relates to waiting for some favorite features

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160129193135/https://www.youneedabudget.com/pricing/

    Is there a discount for existing users?

    Yes! Sign up with the email you purchased YNAB 4 with, and a 10% lifetime discount will automatically be applied to your account.

    multiple support emails, January 2016:

    If you are new YNABer and sign up before January 31st, you can lock in a 10% lifetime discount, making it $45 per year right now. Or if you are a previous YNAB 4 user at all, just sign up with the same email you used to purchase YNAB 4 and you’ll lock in that same discount!

    It seemed pretty clear to me at the time, and it still does.

    Even *if* people are misremembering, the fact that there are SO MANY PEOPLE who understood that, means that YNAB did a poor job communicating this distinction. 

    Lots of people also remember that Nelson Mandela died in prison in the 1980s, but I would not necessarily chalk that up to poor communication. People misremember, and it spreads.

    Like 2
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 9 days ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      srg if you peruse the Price Change thread on this forum you will find multiple instances where users have provided quotes from YNAB in 2017 where YNAB uses the phrase 'lock in price', not "lock in discount'. As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, the lock in the discount by January 2016 stance was overcome by events, as many users didn't migrate from YNAB 4 until late 2017/early 2018 when YNAB said, no, we mean it this time, and they made the leap precisely because the wording that was used at the time led people to believe they were locking in the price.

      Like 8
      • srg
      • srg
      • 9 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      jenmas 

      quotes from YNAB in 2017 where YNAB uses the phrase 'lock in price', not "lock in discount'

      I know. The lifetime 10% discount was already locked in. In 100 years, if YNAB is still a going concern and a YNAB4 user emerges from hibernation to sign up for nYNAB for the first time, they would presumably still get their 10% lifetime discount.

      When the price increase was announced in advance in 2017, YNAB said that anyone who had signed up before the increase date would be “grandfathered” and the price increase would not apply to them. If someone signed up just before the increase date, they would be locking in the pre-increase price. From that point, I suppose it’s a matter of interpretation - YNAB never said that the pre-increase price was locked in for life. I did not take it to mean that I would be exempt from any and all future price increases for all time. The 2017 price increase did not apply to me, and I still have my 10% lifetime discount - YNAB the company kept its word, as far as I can tell (whether or not YNAB the product is still worth it to me at $89/year is a different question)

      Like 2
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 9 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      srg That's literally what "grandfathered" without a stated limitation means, though. Forever.

      Like 1
      • srg
      • srg
      • 9 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa 

      That's literally what "grandfathered" without a stated limitation means, though. Forever.

      I think the limitation was stated (emphasis added):

      As of November 15, our price for new customers will be $6.99/month, billed annually at $83.99. 

      But the pricing change will not affect you if you already have a YNAB account; you are grandfathered in with the existing price.

      The grandfathering pertained to the pricing change that took effect November 15, 2007. That pricing change did not affect me, as they stated.

      Like
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 8 days ago
      • Reported - view

      srg That’s not a limitation. That’s a statement that there’s a pricing change from which users are grandfathered. There was no statement that later pricing changes would affect you. 

      If they’d written, “But this pricing change will not affect you, though later ones will…” you’d have a point about a limitation. But it doesn’t. 

      Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 8 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa "grandfathered" doesn't literally or figuratively mean or even imply forever.   I'm still cancelling my subscription though. 

      Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 8 days ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Herman Once I'm a grandfather, I plan on remaining a grandfather until the day I die. 😉

      Like 3
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 8 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Herman Yes, it does. You can be grandfathered for a period of time, until some change in legal status, or forever. If no limit is stated, it defaults to forever. 

      Like
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 8 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Herman “A grandfather clause, or legacy clause, is an exemption that allows persons or entities to continue with activities or operations that were approved before the implementation of new rules, regulations, or laws. Such allowances can be permanent, temporary, or instituted with limits.”

      https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grandfatherclause.asp

      Nothing said this was temporary. Nothing said it was limited. That leaves “permanent.”

      Like
      • srg
      • srg
      • 7 days ago
      • Reported - view
      Habanero Salsa said:
      Nothing said this was temporary. Nothing said it was limited. That leaves “permanent.”

       Nothing said this was permanent. Nothing said it was temporary. That leaves “limited”.  

      Without context, anyone can infer or assume whatever meaning is most advantageous to themself. In context, the message referred only to the increase effective November 2017. When YNAB offered a “lifetime” discount, it made that abundantly clear - that was not the case here.

      To suggest that, in letting me know that my price was not increasing at the time, YNAB was unwittingly and unknowingly committing to an otherwise unspoken lifetime deal, just by having used the magical contractual word “grandfathered”…just seems silly. 

      Like
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 7 days ago
      • Reported - view

      srg They didn't say not increasing "at the time." They said grandfathered. Why does it seem silly when that's what the word literally means?

      Even if this were ambiguous, which it isn't, ambiguity is resolved against the writer.

      Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 7 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa 

      Habanero Salsa said:
      Nothing said this was temporary. Nothing said it was limited. That leaves “permanent.”

       

      Habanero Salsa said:
      Even if this were ambiguous, which it isn't, ambiguity is resolved against the writer

        nope, take them to court if you think that is how it works.  You are not dealing with a contract, you aren't dealing with a government entity or zoning/real estate where 'grandfathered" may have a legal definition get over it and cancel or don't.

      Oh and I can copy and paste the definition I like too:

      "A grandfather clause (or grandfather policy or grandfathering) is a provision in which an old rule continues to apply to some existing situations while a new rule will apply to all future cases. "

      the old rule applies, no guarantee that the grandfathering survives a subsequent change.

      Like
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 7 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Herman “to all future cases” tells you it will survive. Existing cases aren’t future cases. 
       

      I have no intention of suing because I have no intention of doing business with a company that does this. I’ve simply taken my business, and my referrals, elsewhere. 

      Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 7 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa Nope, a new rule applies to all future cases.  that new rule will not apply to existing cases but no guarantee that the old rule will always apply, only that the new rule will not be applied.   The wheels on the bus go round and round....  

      Like
      • Habanero Salsa
      • Second generation user
      • Aquamarine_Pony.8
      • 7 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Herman If a new rule will not be applied, all you have is the old rule. W.T.A.F?

      Like 1
      • glynab
      • glynab
      • 7 days ago
      • Reported - view

      srg Did I remember this incorrectly?  This was $45 as of Nov 2, and has now changed to $89.10.  There is no interpretation on this one.  It was stated as a fact in my account as to what will happen.  The facts have changed.  It turned into "Here YNAB, hold my wallet.  Take whatever you want".

      Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 7 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Habanero Salsa A different new rule.  All they did was guarantee the 2017 price increase would not apply. They made no promises about future price increases. (a different new rule)

      Like 1
  • There is one thing that intrigues me about this debate and that is the very different promises apparently made to different groups of users in January 2016.

    For example I was offered 10% off for life as a former YNAB 4 user, I signed up and my invoice is dated 4 Jan 2016 ($45 net) demonstrating this and clearly showing the $50 subscription and the 10% discount in a seperate line. And yet on the testimony of others on this forum they were offered a fixed $45 price deal only a very little later (so presumably their invoice shows the fixed price only?).

     This sort of differential pricing in the same period and all  to legacy users - one set getting 10% off whatever the future subscription price may be and the others being certain they were given $45 fixed for life (which I am not doubting) seems downright insulting to us early adopters!

    Dubious practice all round?

    Like 2
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 10 days ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett For me it's really simple.  When they didn't raise us in 2017 that sent a message we were fixed.  I'll give them that it was just a 10% off current from the start, fine.  But when it was $84 I probably would have walked.  Maybe I could have handled $60, but geez.  I have a lot of software subscriptions and they're all based on value to me.  Some of them I barely use, but are what I consider a reasonable price.  It's not even principle.  I can't keep piling on $70 and up subscriptions.  It might be a small increase for some, but it all adds up!  This isn't the only app I use! 

      Like 4
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

      pgauntlett I think the communication that people believe was a promise of $45 for life was just poorly written responses to questions and social media posts.  Should they be held to that? maybe but I never thought that.    My view matches what WordTenor expressed above.   Another month for me and then its back to ynab 4.   Funny thing is they FINALLY brought the android app up to parity with ios.  too late...

      Like
      • pgauntlett
      • pgauntlett
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Herman Agreed! And see the web archive I have posted on this forum today from the YNAB blog of 6 Jan 2016.

      Like
    • WordTenor
    • Can we agree that goals are dumb and immature? Sure.
    • WordTenor
    • 6 days ago
    • 8
    • Reported - view

    I read the two stipulations as “YNAB 4 users get 10% for life.” I always understood the $50 price to be an incentive to get people to sign up and that they would increase it later. 

    I didn’t end my subscription because I thought I was owed $45. I ended my subscription because ever since they opened this support forum with their cheery cheery support staff and “Name is exactly right!” And “That’s a great idea; have you submitted a feature request? Linky linky” and keep developing features that only help people stay paycheck to paycheck longer and longer, I am increasingly dissatisfied with the company itself. The massive bungling of this announcement, the “don’t let the door hit ya on the way out” messaging from support staff, and ESPECIALLY doubling my price while charging the most vulnerable customers $15/mo (where is my money going if not to help those who most need this method?) just seals the deal on them being another evil software company. 

    No thanks. YNAB is totally worth $100/year but I’m not paying more for it than I pay any other faceless software company. And especially not to a company that seems to have shifted from “Let us help you break the paychecK to paycheck cycle once and for all” to “Yay you’re paycheck to paycheck, please pay is twice as much.” 

    Like 8
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

      WordTenor Agreed. The forum is junk. I exported everything back to YNAB 4 last night. It's pretty slow occasionally and I need to get my head around a lot of things such as not being able to spend all day at work looking at my budget, but I've got to say goodbye to YNAB. This company is not offering me anything new any more, i'm over waiting. 

      Like
  • Agreed here also.  I just found the android app and have the Ynab4 ready to go on my mac. I will get this going on the 1st of the month....same layout as I have in nYNAB (or as close as possible) and will give it a go for a week or so....I'm sure it'll be just fine. Then I will kiss this place goodbye. I'll be sad because of all the great advice I found on this forum but I'm sure something else will pop up elsewhere...right, Annieland😉

    Like 1
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