Coming Soon: Loan Accounts! 馃彟

Hello, fellow YNABers! 

I am very excited to announce that Loan Accounts are rolling out soon! Like many other prior releases, we鈥檙e using a phased approach.

Loan accounts are uniquely designed to help you track your loans and budget for your loan payments. If you have student loans, personal loans, a mortgage, medical debt, or another type of loan, YNAB Loan accounts are here to help you budget for your payments and pay. it. down!

There鈥檚 some pretty slick new stuff built into this feature, including (but certainly not limited to) a debt payoff calculator, which you will mess around with for longer than you anticipate - a girl can dream about paying her mortgage off in five years, can鈥檛 she?!

You鈥檒l also be able to migrate any existing tracking account over, without losing any of your account history 馃檶馃徎

Take the new loan accounts for a spin and let us know how it goes! And as always, use this form to share any feedback you have directly with our Product team. Happy debt-crushing!

New Blog Post: Slay Your Loans With YNAB鈥檚 Loan Planner

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  • OK, not a big fan of the mortgage loan account for several reasons that I won't go into here. However, I just tried it and I believe that since I am in Canada, this is causing a problem. 

    There needs to be an ability to set a term. In Canada, term and amortization are separate things. I can have a 25 year amortization but the term can be anything from 6 months to 10 years. At the end of the term, there is a balance remaining that needs to be refinanced. 

    Secondly, as someone has already stated, the way that Canadian mortgages are compounded is different than US mortgages.  With the exception of variable rate mortgages, all mortgages are compounded semi-annually, by law. Here is a link to a page that goes into annoyingly mathematical formulations which are probably useful to programmers.  http://www.yorku.ca/amarshal/mortgage.htm

    Like 2
    • cepelinas tekgy MXMOM We'd love to hear more about your loans that don't fit within this model. 馃槉 

      Like
  • I am a bit concerned that the official advice seems to be "accuracy isn't important because it will work itself out over time". No. I want my budget to be accurate. Full stop.

    Like 6
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      jenmas yeah. And the lack of accurate calculations could lead someone to make wrong priority-based decisions.

      Like 3
  • Rachel Amazing! Great clean layout and works perfectly for my needs. Now please introduce a great UI and new features for the investments pages.

    Like
    • TJ I'm so glad to hear it! Send over a Feature Request with what you'd like to see on the investment side. 馃槉

      Like
    • casner
    • Now retired, and figuring out transitions
    • casner
    • 1 mth ago
    • 2
    • Reported - view

    Great feature, and I could have used it. After 8 years of YNAB, I am debt free, so I won't be using it. Hope it helps others!

    Like 2
  • Like always, I appreciate YNAB taking a different approach to personal finances.  I haven鈥檛 had a chance to dig into it yet, but any tool that allows a person to have a better 鈥渁t-a-glance鈥 picture of where their finances stand is a great thing.  Thank you!

    Like 2
  • My partner and I are paying for the same mortgage, how does the loan account work with separate YNAB budgets? I pay exactly 50/50 with my partner, he has his own YNAB sheet. 

    Like
    • Hey Tiffany ! I checked with our loan team on this one and they have a couple of thoughts:

      1. If one of you transfers cash to the other partner's account, and the payment comes from that one person's account.

        Then: that person who makes the payment can use the Loan account pretty easily. The other person would have to record the payments as external payments to their account and adjust every month, and therefore for that partner, a Tracking account would be easier.
      2. If you each make a half payment to the loan.

        Then
        : a tracking account is the way to go. Recording a half-regular payment, half-external payment in the Loan account will get confusing fast and will require more upkeep.
      Like 1
  • I'm really excited to see this feature. My wife and I actually used this approach to pay off our 18 year house mortgage in 7 years! We used a mortgage calculator app to do the various loan planning scenarios to see where we could get the biggest impact, but now that feature is right within YNAB!

     

    One thing though, in my country banks don't make it easy to make extra payments. There are often limits to the number and value of extra payments you can make in a year. My mortgage banker was one of the better ones, but I still had to go in physically once per year to make that lump sum payment to accelerate the mortgage. So I can budget the extra funds, but my regular payments should still be the planned amounts. Once a year, I can take the extra funds set aside to accelerate my mortgage and make a payment.

    Would this scenario throw off YNAB's implementation?

    Like
    • Richard B I love that you've already used this approach - it's so motivating!

      I think what will work best for you now is to keep those extra amounts in a separate category, and then move them to the linked category when you're ready to transfer the money in real life. The extra payment field of the calculator will show you the impact at that time. 

      Like 1
  • My loan account appear to have gotten halfway through the migration process. I now have a loan account and a tracking account, both open. All past and future payments are associated with the tracking account, but my budget category is tied to the new loan account.

    Like
    • Walrus 44 Sounds like you ran into a bit of a bug - can you reach out with a Bug Report so we can help you get that straightened out?

      Like
  • i switched back. Bi-weekly payments and interest not aligning was the deciding factor.

    Like 1
  • I'm trying to decide if YNAB, whose budget page is essentially a spreadsheet with pretty UI, should have a loan feature that is worse than a spreadsheet.

    I'll give you that any interest calculation is more complicated than the simple addition/subtraction of the budget page.

    However, I also created a spreadsheet that was usually not even a penny off (there was one February that was 2垄 off... but I fixed for the subsequent Februarys...) for my student loans.

    I can guarantee that your loan account would not be correct for me. Not only did it compound daily, but it had idiosyncratic rules about how extra payments were applied. These weren't based on math, but on control (I mean, logic statements... I figured they assumed anyone getting a college degree should be able to understand the terms, math, and logic used. I also figure they assumed most people wouldn't bother to look, so the loan servicer could twist the game to their advantage... Obviously, they were making money on the extra complexity). 

    I would see no benefit to using the loan feature in that case, and it seems like trying to switch my mortgage will simply not be worth the effort. What's the benefit? Why have a workaround for seeing the account register?

    But mainly, is there anyone who wants to convince me that I should try it for my mortgage? I've got a list of other things to do at the moment, though one of them is to figure out if a self-escrow idea is feasible. So, I'll be looking into that part of YNAB anyways. 

    Like
      • MXMOM
      • MXMOM
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life i actually don鈥檛 believe that setting up the loan feature the way they have is in line with the core of YNAB philosophy. It鈥檚 about budgeting dollars not about managing accounts. For that Quicken would be a better fit. The credit cards and bank accounts need to be in there because they are used as funding sources for transactions. And the credit card functionality helps ensure that I am living within my means.  
      I realize I am lobbing a huge grenade of a comment into the discussion. But I actually don鈥檛 care what they do in this area. I will continue to budget my 鈥渕ortgage payment as an expense and use YNAB to plan how to use my actual money. 

      Like 2
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life I'm not going to try to convince you as I don't know how I feel about it yet. Interested to see what happens when the month rolls around. I have a spreadsheet that calculates monthly interest for the life of the mortgage (which has never been off a penny) and I had repeated transactions for 12 months at a time. So, I do like the idea of them calculating it for me if accurate. Saves me that occasional task to populate the upcoming months.

      Just like there is an Original Tracking Account History->Go To Tracking Account link at the bottom, I wish there was a link to the full ledger to see how the balance changes over time.  I just tried the All Accounts workaround and it's not bad but I shouldn't have to do a workaround to see it. In fact, I think I'll put in a feature request for this...

      Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Theoretically it should work just fine for any simple interest loan with 1/12 of a year payment periods calculated on end of period balances. Any other loan calculation method will result in interest calculations being incorrect. That said, I'm not sure that they are properly rounding in the same way that a standard amortization rounds, which will also result in differences in overall interest.

      Like 2
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Yes, theoretically. Just waiting to see it in action and to confirm.

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      So, I confirmed that the interest was calculated correctly for my November 1 payment. So that's good. 

      Unfortunately, Rachel , I found a bug that messes up my YNAB interface and the only fix is to refresh YNAB in the browser. This is in Chrome. The issue happens when I click on See History link (shown below). It makes a small window that's about a quarter of my screen and I can't get back to the main mortgage page. It also messes up all my other account views. Some are blank and some have no header and transactions that only fill the same quarter of the screen. Ok, I found another way to fix it: Click on Budget and then back to the account screens.

       

      Like
    • Superbone Thank you for letting us know! If you'd like, please send us details in a Bug Report鈥攚e haven't heard of this issue yet, so it would be helpful to know more about what you're seeing and what your system looks like. We'd love to get this resolved for you!

      Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Dela My YNAB beta test days are over. Sorry! I'm moving on. I hope they treat their employees better than their long time customers. Best of luck.

      Like 4
    • Superbone We appreciate you sharing the details. I'll pass it on!

      Like 1
  • I would really enjoy this feature if there was an option of biweekly payments vs only the monthly payment.  We set up our car loan before diving into YNAB completely 2 years ago before YNAB and did not want to fall into the "are we going to have enough at that time of the month" problem.  But since YNAB, we're super much better with money.  --> when this option is added, I'll be switching our  right over, including our bi-weekly mortgage payment.

    I did use the loan feature for 2 days but giving up the balance view of the actual account gave me too much anxiety.  

    Like
    • BenCynPaterson  Will you please send this feedback to our design team with a Feature Request? That way, the right folks will know what you're looking for. :)

      Like
  • Can you please tell me how to turn off the blue dots advertising the new loan feature in all my tracking accounts? I've explored it, I've read this thread and the other documentation, and I've determined that it doesn't meet my needs. Now I want to tell YNAB that I'm not going to use it and stop looking at the dots that are making me think I have transactions to import. Thank you.

    Like 1
    • Cadet Blue Barnacle Agreed, I'm in the same position, I want to turn it off but can't. No point me even starting with this feature right now.  This thread has confirmed it simply won't work for my mortgage- I'm grateful for those who have tried it here and saved me the time. 

      Like 1
    • Violet Cello Cadet Blue Barnacle I just clicked the button in the banner at the top of the screen and then just didn't go through with the conversion. 

      Like 1
    • Fuzzball Meows thanks! I didn't think of trying that.

      Like
    • Fuzzball Meows That worked, thanks so much!

      Like
  • I like the intent with this feature, ie, to see impact of extra payments to reduce interest/time over life of loan but I feel there are a few bugs to be worked out.  I just made an extra principle-only payment through my lender; when recording that in the new activity feature, YNAB estimates a P&I split...it doesn't give me the option for "principle only".  Keep up the good work and thank you for continuing to develop.

    Like 2
    • mik Thanks for bringing this up! Right now, this loan account feature assumes that there's a monthly Interest Charge that has to be covered first, but then any payment beyond that interest is applied directly to the principal balance鈥攊ncluding extra payments. Are you seeing your loan account work differently?

      Like
      • mik
      • mik
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dela Hi thank you, I'm not sure I understand your question...it seems like you answered my original message by saying that right now YNAB assumes interested in each payment vs being able to designate a payment as principle-only.  So my loan account works as you intend with the exception of allowing me to provide a principle payment only.  When I pay my mortgage with my lender, I have my usual recurring payment that includes P&I but occasionally I'll go in and make an extra payment to principle only with my lender.  Making extra principle payments does not change my cash-flow out...it reduces the overall principle-due and therefore the amortization gets recalc'd behind the scenes reducing the interest per each payment and also the term.  Tx.

      Like 1
    • mik Once you鈥檝e made the required minimum payment, any further payments are principal only by default (not by choice), because minimum payments are designed to clear all interest charged plus some principal (i.e. amortisation). In other words, you don鈥檛 choose to clear only the principal if there is interest outstanding; principal-only payments are as such because there is no interest outstanding.

      If YNAB has already registered the monthly minimum as paid for a particular month, then any additional payments in the same month (or before the next interest charge) will be fully applied to the principal balance by default, because there is no interest to clear.

      Like
    • mik  The reply from Salmon Mermaid above is spot on!

      Like
  • Super stoked with this new feature, thanks a ton YNAB team.

    An issue I've run across for myself: previously I tracked extra payments as a separate category so I could keep track of how much extra I've paid in the history of the loan. If I begin adding extra money into the main payment category, is there a way to track extra payments separately from mandatory payments? And is there a way to retain the extra payment category's history in this new loan account?

    Like 2
    • Turquoise Major Right now, you can't pair more than one category to a loan account. But! If you remove the paired category, you can make payments from multiple categories. (Know that when remove the paired category, you'll also see the Record Payment button and the debt simulator disappear from the budget inspector).

      Like
    • Danny A
    • Software engineer who likes to take things apart and put them back together
    • dpsr
    • 1 mth ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi folks - is there any way to change the linked Budget Category after creating the account? I've not found a way through the UI except by deleting and recreating the Loan account.

    The reason this came up is I made the mistake of selecting an existing budget category, when in reality I should have just created a separate category for the loan. YNAB can only link one budget category per loan, which I only realized when trying to add my second loan account of a similar type.

    BTW - really excited for this feature, been waiting for this one for a while. Thanks YNAB!

    Like
    • Danny A  The best way to unpair a category from a Loan account right now is to create a new category and delete the old paired one one, moving the payments and assigned funds over to the new category. That will unpair the old one. From there, you can pair a new category or choose not to pair and make payments from multiple categories.

      Like
      • Danny A
      • Software engineer who likes to take things apart and put them back together
      • dpsr
      • 3 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Dela thanks for your response. This will work in the case of accidentally choosing a new category, but the problem is I selected an existing category that has a history of transactions (and a budgets!) associated with it. If I delete the old category, I would have to reassign all those historical budgets for my annual reports to be accurate. 

      The only suitable solution I found was to delete the converted Loan account, reopen the closed Tracking account, and recreate the Loan account. This seems like a lot of user hassle for something the dev team could fix without a huge amount of effort.

      Like
    • Danny A Hey there! Jumping in for Dela this afternoon 馃槉Creating that new category and deleting the old (said another way - merging the old with the new) will move all budgeting and transaction history from the old category, move it into the new, and unpair the loan account.

      Once you've done this, you can choose to leave the newly merged category as is (which means all that history remains, just in the new - essentially duplicated - version of your historic category), and then create another new category to pair with the loan account. This eliminates having to shuffle the accounts around!

      Hopefully, that will smooth the process a bit if this happens again (or for anyone else reading). Of course, our product team would love to hear any additional thoughts you have on the loan accounts functionality, too.

      Like
  • What format does this input field want?? An interest rate or a date?? I can't seem to work it out with any values I put in here.

    Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Maroon Colt They want the interest rate percentage. Have you tried putting a % symbol in there?

      "date" appears to be a typo and shouldn't be there.

      ETA: Forget that. Just looked at mine and there's no % symbol there.

      Also tried editing my mortgage with the same 2.39 value and it worked fine.

      Like
      • Maroon Colt
      • Maroon_Colt.12
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Tried that, same error. If I put a date in, it actually has a different error. How strange is that??

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Maroon Colt It's definitely a typo! They want a percentage, not a date. 2.39 is supposed to work! 2.39 is between 0 and 100. 馃檪Hard to believe that made it through beta testing.

      Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Maroon Colt One more thing. It looks to be specific to the initial setup. If I edit mine and put a date in there, it has the correct message without saying anything about a date.

      Like
    • Superbone yeah strange, I tried whole numbers with and without percentage sign. Nothing works. Tried this on Auto Loan and Mortgage accounts. None work :(

      Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Maroon Colt That IS strange! Definitely put in a bug report. I'll try adding a new account and see if I see that. My rate worked fine when transitioning my mortgage.

      Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Maroon Colt Just tried it with a new Auto Loan and 2.39 worked fine for me.

      Also, I didn't see that typo when trying to put in a date.

       

      Like
    • Superbone I tried this as new or convert existing to loan account, both throw the same error.

      Like
      • Maroon Colt
      • Maroon_Colt.12
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Superbone  I have submitted a bug report.

      Like 1
      • Maroon Colt
      • Maroon_Colt.12
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Superbone the bug fixed itself, I just tried again and its all working... Guessing YNAB fixed it :)

      Like 1
  • My interest rate just changed at the end of the month from 2.73 to 2.24%. However, when changing it in YNAB it recalculates last month's interest based on the new rate. How can I change the rate to only apply from a certain date? 

    Variable rate mortgage... 

    Like 3
    • Tomato General It retroactively affects interest applied? That's just ridiculous! Estimated interest absolutely needs to be added as uncleared transactions so they can be manually adjusted and finalised so they're not linked to any changes made in the future.

      Like 1
    • Tomato General  The interest in a Loan Account posts after a payment is made and is posted directly to the Principal (Working) Balance on the account. I'm guessing this happened because the interest rate changed after your last payment and before this month's payment? If that's the case, you might wait to change the interest rate until you make this month's payment.
       

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dela Nope. I created a test budget. Posted a payment dated November 1st. Today is November 2nd. i changed the interest rate and it changed the interest/principal and loan balance for a past payment.
       

      All I did here was change the interest rate from 2.125% to 5% a day after the payment's date. It's all there in the 2 screenshots.

      Like 1
    • Dela I also tested this after reading about this bug, before I submitted my response here. In a test budget, I set up a mortgage starting on August 1, and made payments on September 1, October 1 and November 1 (all cleared and reconciled). I then changed the interest rate, and all four interest charges were modified to reflect the new interest rate.

      Like
    • Salmon Mermaid nolesrule Thanks for testing this out! I'm checking with the Loans team on this one to get some clarification. I'll be back soon. Let me know if you see anything else wonky! :)

      Like
    • Tomato General Salmon Mermaid nolesrule  I have a bit of clarification as to why we're seeing this behavior. Loan Accounts are built so that its possible to change the interest rate without it changing past months鈥攅xcept for the first month the account is created. Since YNAB Loan accounts are designed around a monthly payment and interest that compounds monthly, any change to the interest rate will change the Interest Charge in the current month. 

      These test budgets were created this month and data was retroactively added  to make the Loan account "Start" in a previous month, but YNAB knows that account was created in November. Because of that, whatever interest rate is entered will be applied to all those past months. There isn't a way to go through and retroactively apply past interest rates to a Loan account you've just created.

      In the original question, it sounds like Tomato General changed the interest rate and saw the same behavior since the Loan account was just created this month. This behavior is expected because the Loan is designed around a monthly amortization formula. If you wait until next month to change the interest rate, the interest calculations in November (and any other previous months) will not be impacted.

      I hope this helps! Let me know what other questions you have about this. :)

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Dela

      Dela said:
      Loan Accounts are built so that its possible to change the interest rate without it changing past months鈥攅xcept for the first month the account is created. 

       Why would they do that? It means a real rate change can't be done in the first month.

      Why didn't they just tie rate changes to a date? Which is how rate changes work in real life.

      it also means that someone who wants to adjust the loan so that all of the old transactions are taken into account by porting them over cannot accurately do that.

      Why are there always shortcuts being taken when developing new features? At the pace that features get released, there's plenty of time to do it the right way.

      Like 5
    • Dela That鈥檚 unfortunate. These new loan accounts are extremely inflexible and have a distinct lack of flexibility and user choice. It has to be done this way, you can鈥檛 do this, wait until the next month to do that. I鈥檝e reverted to a standard tracking account where I have full control over every amount on any date, and there are plenty of mortgage and amortisation calculators already that can provide the same insight (and more).

      None of it is expected behaviour. These are not design decisions that should be justified when there are better methods. Users of YNAB are accustomed to controlling the history of their accounts down to the last cent, so if they are forced to give up control (no ability to manually record every transaction), YNAB needs to be pinpoint accurate, which means not blindly applying a single amortisation formula and expecting everyone to work around it.

      Like 3
    • nolesrule Salmon Mermaid  I've shared your feedback with the Loan accounts design team so they can take your ideas into account as they make this tool better. Thank you!

      Like
  • I've already submitted this via the feedback form, but might be worthy of discussion.

    My Auto Loan is paid weekly, not monthly, I did this originally because it saves on interest payments over the term. It would be good if YNAB supported this.

    I have an investment properly loan which I pay only the interest and zero principle. Not sure how this will play out with the new Loan Categories, I will see. It would be nice if you could toggle whether payments were interest only or also contributing to principle.

    Like 1
  • After trying this for a while, I've given up and gone back to my old account. While the new functionality is great as a supplement to the ledger, I don't see why it has to replace and entirely obscure the ledger. In my opinion, we've lost a lot more than we've gained.

    I mocked up how I would like to see it look as a ledger with like a side bar widget. It would be great to have the auto-calculated interest show up as a linked recurring transaction, and be able to do the "what if" insights and maybe have those generate transactions for you. But give us the ledger back, let us go back and edit/correct the interest, give us running balances, give us visibility into our history.

    Like 7
    • RocketBran Thanks for taking the time to create this mock up and share your feedback! If you haven't already, will you please share it with our design team with a Feature Request? They'd love to hear from you!

      Like
    • RocketBran ha, agreed 100% ...instead of gaining more control and insight, we have lost it. i've gone back to my tracking account as well. it was a cool feature and i don't really need it as much i need the tracking account to be accurate.

      Like
    • RocketBran I agree. Without a ledger it feels no more connected than using undebt.it

      Like
  • I'll provide this feedback officially too.

    1. Include options for choosing:

    • How interest is calculated, e.g. monthly, daily average, daily.
    • How often and when interest is applied, e.g. monthly, twice monthly, every x weeks (regardless of when payments are actually made).

    2. Estimated interest should be added as uncleared transactions, which users can manually adjust before confirming them. Even if YNAB doesn't get it perfect to the penny (due to numerous calculation variations and rounding methods), giving us the option to edit directly for correctness compensates for that. Balance adjustments are just a workaround and do not reflect reality.

    3. Is this a bug? Modifying the interest rate changes the interest amount applied in the previous month. Transactions are historical facts, so they should not be continuously linked to variables for dynamic changes.

    4. Allow offsetting balances. In practice, this offset amount would effectively be the balance of another account in YNAB, which can be linked to the loan/mortgage account for the purposes of calculating interest. Once estimated interest is added as an uncleared transaction, the figure is no longer linked to the offset balance; this prevents any retroactive changes in the linked account from affecting past interest.

    5. Provide an explicit option for interest-only mortgages. The current workaround involves setting the minimum payment to 0.00 and YNAB calculates the minimum instead (just the interest).

    6. For older tracking loans that have been converted, include the starting date of the loan, the original principal amount, and import all transactions and memos from the tracking account. Ledgers and running balances are very useful to many! Interest/Fees/Charges (as a legacy sum for stats) would be: Current Balance + Payments - Principal.

    7. Allow multiple spending categories per loan. Users have their own budget categories and they should have a choice not to lump all payments to one account through one spending category.

    8. Nice to have: A payment type/flag that prevents payments on weekends; any payment date that falls on a weekend is pushed back to the following Monday (e.g. Direct Debits in the UK).

    Like 4
    • Salmon Mermaid Great list, thank you. I hope the Dev team fix all the items on your list because without it the Loans feature is really not useful at all. I would have thought some Beta testing would have highlighted these things...

      I would add another bullet under point 1 for specifying if the loan has a balloon payment / final lump sum / etc.

      Like 2
    • Cadet Blue Wrench #1, 2 & 3 are the ones that the feature should've shipped with at a minimum. The others can be added over time. 

      I would also add that you should be able to edit the category that the loan account is assigned to!

      Like
    • Salmon Mermaid Thank you for that detailed feedback and for sharing it with our product team! 馃檶

      Like
  • echoing  Salmon Mermaid

    Definitely this: "2. Estimated interest should be added as uncleared transactions, which users can manually adjust before confirming them. Even if YNAB doesn't get it perfect to the penny (due to numerous calculation variations and rounding methods), giving us the option to edit directly for correctness compensates for that. Balance adjustments are just a workaround and do not reflect reality."

    I immediately converted my auto loan from a tracking account to a loan and just had my first payment since the conversion. 

    If I can edit the Interest payment rather than inserting an adjustment, I'm converting back to a tracking account and doing it my old manual way.

    It has to be accurate or it's useless to me.

    Sucks cuz it is a neat new feature.

    Like 2
  • Cadet Blue Wrench said:
    I would add another bullet under point 1 for specifying if the loan has a balloon payment / final lump sum / etc.

     That is very important for Canadian mortgages which (as I explained somewhere earlier in this thread) are amortized over 25 years but are arranged on a 1-5 year term. Essentially that is a balloon payment. We then start a new mortgage for the balance with the remaining amortization and a new term.  

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    • MXMOM How would that affect YNAB? As long as amortisation is based on the full loan amount (and not just a portion of it), YNAB should calculate correctly (assuming it addresses the problems already mentioned).

      YNAB calculates a finish date based on the outstanding principal, monthly minimums and interest rates, but the projected finish date is meaningless in practice. If your 1-5 year term finished and you started a new mortgage with the remaining balance over a new term, you would just plug new values into the same loan account (adding additional fees/charges if necessary). Here in the UK owners remortgage all the time at the end of their fixed-rate terms to get the best deals.

      Balloon payments/loans by design only amortise a portion of the loan, and at the end of the term, the remaining (unamortised) balance is then paid off all at once. Having provisions for this would definitely be a useful addition to YNAB so it can calculate interest correctly (by not amortising the full outstanding principal). The current workaround would be to separate the balloon payment from the amortised principal into its own tracking account.

      Like
      • MXMOM
      • MXMOM
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Salmon Mermaid OK, makes sense.  I didn鈥檛 realize that about the balloon payments. I am trying to wrap my head around the difference then. Not going to worry about it since it is not a feature I am going to use. 

      Like
    • MXMOM I may be wrong with the specifics as they are many variations, but essentially balloon loans have lower monthly repayments compared to standard amortised loans, with the trade-off being the balloon payment.

      Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 4 wk ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Salmon Mermaid Balloon loans  are simply loans that use an amortization schedule that is longer than the contracted payoff date. So it might have a 30 year amortization, but the pay in full date might be something shorter.

      If the point of using the loan feature is to make decisions about loan payoffs, then the loan feature needs to be able to accurately project how things will play out, which means taking all factors into account.

      Like 3
    • nolesrule That makes sense. At the very least a dynamic yearly breakdown of the amortisation schedule should be available, with an option to enter payoff dates for balloon loans so YNAB can advise users how much to budget in order to meet the balloon payment.

      In the case of remortgaging/refinancing though, it would better to either adjust the values of the existing loan account, or create a new loan account by transferring the balance from old, instead of treating them as balloon loans.

      Like 1
  • I really have to say this new "loan" account type is stupid. They ask you to separate the escrow payments from the principle and interest (great!), but then don't track that balance at all... I reached out to support and they said, "yeah, don't use the loan account if you want to track escrow"... Then why tell me to track it!

    I get that's for the "pay off" early form. But I can do this with any calculator on the web, Excel, or my trusty HP 12C.

    Now that I want to undo the loan account, I can't without jumping through tons of loops and workarounds... I can't delete the stupid loan account now cause it has transactions I can't edit. And the annoying notification that tells me to "upgrade" to the new loan account type won't go away.

    With the increased price, what exactly are we paying for?

    It's a good idea... Just poorly executed. It's right back to the "do things our way or get lost" YNAB mantra...

    Like 1
    • Pink Major Thanks for reaching out to support and sharing your feedback. They'll follow up soon.  To dismiss the banner, click "Learn More," then click 鈥淢aybe Later鈥 in the window that pops up.

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  • This is a really good feature and I hope more 'planning' type features come in future to YNAB. 

    However, it has been shipped too soon. Salmon Mermaid has captured it correctly that there needs to be at a minimum the ability to set the mortgage particulars like payment frequency and the way interest is calculated. If this was not possible for the first release, then at least the ability to edit the interest values would've been better (and should be included).

    From the sounds of things in this forum, even folks in the US don't exclusively have a single style payment/interest calculation method so I don't think YNAB can use the excuse that this was US centric from the start.

    Like 1
  • AHHH! My God - I only needed to update my accounts last night, but I got sucked into this loan account conversion nightmare. I tried last night, and more today, to try to make it work, but it's now a god-awful mess. It's going to take my entire evening tonight to sort out my transactions and put them all back the way they were. I wish I could reset back to this time yesterday before I began all this mess.

    The loan account fails to make room for anything at all unusual. For instance, I purchased my current home this past June, and the closing day in June for my previous mortgage account has (had) all these in-and-out transfers to account for the various expenses involved in the transaction where I sold my previous home and bought this one. Ayyy-yay-YAY! I have hanging transfers and uncategorized expenses all over the place. I can no longer use the mortgage category to catch all the escrow money along with the mortgage payment - that all has to have its OWN category now, if I want to track my taxes and insurance payments. Just what I need - yet ANOTHER category to complicate my budget.

    I TRIED to like it - really. I tried. But I've lost an entire day to it, PLUS I still have a mess to clean up. Sorry, YNAB, I hate it - LOATHE IT.  Not going to use it.

    Like 3
    • FPU-Fan So we can see the transactions of a loan account from the "all accounts" view but certainly not in the loan account. THAT would make WAAAY too much sense.

      Anyway, might be helpful in your troubleshooting and trying to undo the horrendous "feature".

      Like 2
    • FPU-Fan If you need a hand in getting things back to where they were, our support team is happy to help. You can reply to that last email and they'll pick up where you left off.  Thank you for submitting your experience and feedback, so we can continue to make improvements!

      Like
      • FPU-Fan
      • FPUFan
      • 3 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Nicole 

      After some fiddling around, I did finally decide to use the Loan Account feature. To solve my complications, I created an asset account just for the purpose of handling the line items that transferred out from the assets of House 1 & Escrow 1, to the assets of House 2 and Escrow 2.

      Instead of transferring the down payment and earnest money to the loan account, I transferred them to House 2 to contribute to the value of that asset. Only a single transaction comes out of the loan account to begin it  - the amount of the loan, since the down payment and earnest money were already in the House asset. Those transactions were recorded, but none of them needed to be assigned to a category, which simplified the budget for that month.

      When all was done, I transferred the remainder from the Home Sale asset account to my checking account as income. Once those transactions were out of the mortgage loan account's front-loading (which complicated the categorization after the loan account commandeered the "Mortgage" category), then the loan account works as expected. The interest calculation, once that was done, was precise to the penny. Yay, me - I have the "right" kind of mortgage.

      The cost of this method was the throwaway "Home Sale" asset account, which was archived after all was done.

      However, I would still like to request that a change be made to allow the interest amount to be manually corrected, should there be a discrepancy, instead of a balance adjustment, which looks to me like an error instead of simply interest, which is what it really is. Perhaps I should explain my philosophy. I do not EVER allow "adjustment" transactions to stand in ANY of my accounts. If there is an "adjustment," I've made an ERROR that needs to be CORRECTED. You're asking me to live, potentially, with UNCORRECTABLE errors in my loan accounts.

      For the escrow problem, I kept the escrow account that I had before. I created the mortgage loan account WITH escrow. The loan account tracks escrow for it's purposes, which is fine. It doesn't seem to create any actual transactions for it. This let's me assign the WHOLE house payment amount to the mortgage category, though, instead of the amount minus escrow. I did NOT want to track an "Escrow" budget category.

      MY escrow account, however, is an asset account, and instead of transfers into it out of the house payment, there is simply a recurring monthly credit to the mortgage holder recorded to the account, which doesn't require a category since it's an asset account. I just track the transactions in there, but they don't affect the budget.

      It was a rocky start, but I got there. It didn't need to be this difficult. YNAB are trying to be controlling, and that is always the best way to alienate people. Don't try to force everyone into your mold, YNAB.

      The "cover sheet" view of the loan is nice, so all you need to do is allow the interest amounts to be corrected. It also wouldn't kill you to allow the user to select an asset tracking account that would then receive the escrow amount as a monthly transfer from the loan account. If they don't choose to do that, then the loan could continue with the "phantom" escrow representation it currently uses.

       

      Like 1
    • FPU-Fan Thanks for walking us through how that went - I know that was more work than you planned for, and we really appreciate hearing your thoughts on the process - as well as what you'd like to see moving forward. Your feedback is in good hands! 

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