Coming Soon: Loan Accounts! 馃彟

Hello, fellow YNABers! 

I am very excited to announce that Loan Accounts are rolling out soon! Like many other prior releases, we鈥檙e using a phased approach.

Loan accounts are uniquely designed to help you track your loans and budget for your loan payments. If you have student loans, personal loans, a mortgage, medical debt, or another type of loan, YNAB Loan accounts are here to help you budget for your payments and pay. it. down!

There鈥檚 some pretty slick new stuff built into this feature, including (but certainly not limited to) a debt payoff calculator, which you will mess around with for longer than you anticipate - a girl can dream about paying her mortgage off in five years, can鈥檛 she?!

You鈥檒l also be able to migrate any existing tracking account over, without losing any of your account history 馃檶馃徎

Take the new loan accounts for a spin and let us know how it goes! And as always, use this form to share any feedback you have directly with our Product team. Happy debt-crushing!

New Blog Post: Slay Your Loans With YNAB鈥檚 Loan Planner

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  • I just switched my mortgage account over to the new Mortgage Loan Accounts. The only thing I'm confused about are the interest payments. Is this new account type going to calculate interest and add it automatically? I couldn't find any information about that.

    Like 3
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone How easy is it to move all history into the new account? I have enough accounts, don't want to keep the "originals" but do want the history.

      Like
    • Superbone You'll see that interest added each month after the first.

      Like 2
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Marisa Interest is added at the end of the month for my bank in Australia and varies based on what day it is. 
      October is a good example. The 31st is a Sunday which means my interest will only be calculated up until Friday the 29th and charged on that day.. I won't get charged interest for the 30th and 31st until the end of november. Will it handle this?

      Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      SgtBatten Very easy. It does it for you. It also saves off the old account with previous history in your closed accounts.

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Yeah i've just converted 1 of my accounts. Not sure yet if it will work how i'm expecting. Really wish i could go back to may and start it from the beginning of my loan. will try it with a new account from scratch to test now. 

      Like
    • SgtBatten said:
      Interest is added at the end of the month for my bank in Australia and varies based on what day it is.  October is a good example. The 31st is a Sunday which means my interest will only be calculated up until Friday the 29th and charged on that day.. I won't get charged interest for the 30th and 31st until the end of november. Will it handle this?

      This is a great question, and was part of my learning curve. YNAB posts interest after a payment is made. What this means in practice is that I adjust the balance on my loan accounts less frequently (more than quarterly isn't necessary, for my purposes). When I first started using Loan accounts, I adjusted often, and the balances swung wildly - it turns out, they balanced over time, though. I just needed to let the calculations do their thing.

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Marisa My payments are due towards the middle of the month. It's just based on the day of settlement originally. I pay one loan fortnightly and the rest monthly for various reasons, but interest is always only charged on the last business day of the month. 

       

      Marisa said:
      What this means in practice is that I adjust the balance on my loan accounts

      Sorry for all the questions. Are you saying you need to do a balance adjustment to correct the interest amounts because they are sometimes inaccurate and can't be manually corrected any other way?

      Like
    • SgtBatten I'm saying that you shouldn't do a balance adjustment. The differences I've seen have balanced out over time - even though YNAB doesn't know the exact date my interest is applied in real life, but over the course of a month, it estimates the correct interests very very closely. 

      YNAB will apply interest after your first payment of a given month.

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Marisa So i went back and accurately started the account from May. duplicated all my monthly payments since then and changed them to go into the new account. 

      I required a balance adjustment of $31.50 after just 6 months. 

      I have over 8 years of transaction history in YNAB (carried over my YNAB 4 import successfully right from the start). I have NEVER made a balance adjustment in that time. until now. 
       

      Like
    • SgtBatten Did you already make a payment this month?

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Marisa yes, my payments are due on the 4th (monthly anniversary of settlement date)

      Like
    • SgtBatten Then the interest has been applied for this month in YNAB. I wonder how it will look just after the interest is applied in real life? I know you're reaching out to support, so they can dig in here, as well. :)

      Like
    • nolesrule
    • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
    • nolesrule
    • 1 mth ago
    • Reported - view

    And as a follow-on to Superbone 's question, is there any documentation as to the method used to calculate the interest for each of the Loan types? Because there's average daily balance, daily accrual, monthly balance, and from my understanding not all countries use the U.S.-style amortization on mortgages.

    Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      I should note that the total interest calculated by YNAB for the remainder of my mortgage is $0.17 different from my own amortization table in a spreadsheet. I've been calculating my own amortization tables for about 15 years and I've never been off by even a penny.

      Like 1
    • nolesrule YNAB compounds interest monthly by taking the interest rate, dividing by 12, and multiplying with the current balance, and then uses a standard amortization schedule.

      Differences of less than a dollar are most often due to rounding.
       

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Marisa Do we have the ability to edit the interest amount ourselves after YNAB adds it?

      Are there plans to allow customisation of the calculation?
       

      Like 3
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Marisa 

      Marisa said:
      Differences of less than a dollar are most often due to rounding.

       I've been building amortization tables in spreadsheets for 15 years. I've never been off by a penny. if there's a difference, then the formula is not rounding in the right places and is working with fractions of a penny where it shouldn't.

      Also, I would still like to know how it calculates and posts interest for the different Loan Account types, as there are multiple methods that loans use for calculating interest. It would also be helpful for those outside the U.S. where mortgages are managed differently.

      Like 2
    • nolesrule Fair questions! This is the formula that is used for all loan accounts. While we anticipate the formula may not work quite right for everyone everywhere, this is what we found worked for most scenarios - including non-mortgage accounts as well as loans outside of the US, so it's what we've started with. Our Design Team is eager to collect all feedback from users who have unique loan setups.

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      Marisa That formula won't work for loans that accrue daily and pay the interest out of the payment amount nor for loans that generate interest based on average daily balance within a specific statement  period that may end before the payment is made. It won't work for loans where the actual payment date affects how much interest you incur (and might vary due to business day calendars). Like student loans and car loans. The formula is based on periods and has no regard for length or variance of the periods, but rather seems to assume exactly 1/12 of a year.... which is fine for U.S.-based mortgages.

      So the next question is how do we make an adjustment for actual interest/principal offsets when the interest amount is wrong so that YNAB will reflect the correct breakdown in the data?

      Like 7
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Marisa
      This point by nolesrule is the most significant issue for i dare say a huge number of YNAB users. The data YNAB can capture and present on loans with the new account types is very powerful and I WANT to use it, but It has to be flexible. You have a global user base and we need to ability to edit the interest amounts.

      Like 1
    • nolesrule I noticed mine was off too, and did some reverse engineering by adding brand new mortgages to YNAB to see what it calculated.

      Let's take an example, $300,000, 360 months, 4% interest. Monthly payment should be $1,432.25

      YNAB tells you the total interest is $215,607.14

      I tried a few online calculators to check my spreadsheet and all seemed to give $215,608.52 - this corresponds to unrounded payments i.e. $1,432.24589... per month, PLUS unrounded interest.

      Rounded payments of exactly $1,432.25, with interest rounded to the nearest cent is giving me $215,607.19

      And finally, a rounded exact payment with unrounded interest is $215,607.14 - this is clearly how YNAB is calculating it. I double checked with other examples and they all matched.

      So now my question is whether banks round interest every month or not. I did some comparison charts and the difference won't show up on my statements for another several years.

      Doing an apples to apples (I was rounding interest) against my partially paid off loan, YNAB's prediction deviates by being only 1 cent low. This is probably accounted for by my true balance being a fraction of a cent higher than what I typed into YNAB. Assuming banks don't round interest.

      Like
    • RocketBran SgtBatten nolesrule While the team working on this project was an international one, they couldn't account for every possibility in the first go. I think for this feature, perhaps more than others, we really do need to see working examples of loans that fall outside of this interest calculation formula in order to work them into this model (or something that would be a better fit). To that end, you know the drill for feedback. :)

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Marisa 

      Marisa said:
      While the team working on this project was an international one, they couldn't account for every possibility in the first go.

       While I don't expect every possibility on initial release, I do expect a broader applicability. This feature has been in the "in progress" state long enough that it could have been implemented with more configurable options to cover a wider variety of loan types. Instead it assumes specific values for something that could have been set with user input variables. There are only a few formulas needed to cover all of the interest calculations for any loan type, and then the remaining differences are all variables that can be plugged into those formulas.

      I've overseen more complex features implemented in a shorter amount of time in web applications. Perhaps that's why I'm constantly underwhelmed and/or disappointed by feature releases in YNAB.

      Like 2
      • cepelinas
      • What's the budget say?
      • cepelinas
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I face the same problem as a user of an offset account.

      One quick way I have come up with is after YNAB automatically calculates and adds the interest for the month,  you could use the 'Add Activity' option under the said load, click 'Add Credit' and enter the amount to 'offset/reduce' the interest charge so that the total balance for the month reflects the actual mortgage. 

      This really only tackles the reconciliation piece and gives no insight into interest and months remaining for the total loan. At the moment, YNAB suggests I have 13 yrs and 8 months left but with my offset it should actually be 11 yrs and 8 months.

      Like
      • tekgy
      • Neuroscience & Technology
      • tekgy
      • 1 mth ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Marisa fwiw, my current US auto loan doesn鈥檛 use standard amortization. I don鈥檛 believe any of mine have. I鈥檝e also had US auto loans where early payoff doesn鈥檛 save interest; required to pay the total interest at payoff. For my current loan, the interest amounts jump around and will eventually add up close to the amount YNAB estimates in the loan tool. But month-to-month, I鈥檓 going to have to manually adjust the balance every time because the interest will be more or less than calculated. And that will show up as something other than interest. An extra payment or refund or something? Otherwise I just have to have faith for the next 52 months that things will even up in the end, which feels very not-YNABby

      Since things roughly even out in the end it may not seem like I should be so bothered, but 鈥渃lose enough鈥 or 鈥渋t鈥檒l eventually be accurate鈥 feel like a huge clash in philosophy/mentality with 鈥済ive every dollar a job鈥 and mindfully tracking and categorizing every penny in/out of the budget.

      It鈥檚 also disheartening, in general, to see YNAB prioritizing getting an incomplete, rigid, US-focused feature out as a minimum viable product rather than working on an MVP that STARTS with flexibility and internationalization in mind. 鈥淭his method should work out of the box for most US users鈥 is a business decision that sounds very much like it鈥檚 ignored pushback on past releases from international users, users with specific accessibility needs, etc. 

      Good enough for some shouldn鈥檛 be good enough from YNAB. And I鈥檇 love to see YNAB demonstrating more clearly a 鈥済lobal-first鈥 and 鈥渁ccessibility-first鈥 mindset with future feature releases. 

      We are where we are with the feature, and the dev and support teams are truly awesome. I hope they鈥檒l take the feedback that even in the US, but certainly throughout the rest of the world, there is significantly more variety in interest and payment calculations than they seem to have assumed based on their internal polling/research. 

      I doubt that if we focus on rigid pre-built solutions, the dev team CAN ever address the actual majority of loan types/interest/amortization/compounding/etc. But even just giving us the ability to edit a monthly interest amount and see a ledger for specific details would probably give many more people a workaround to be able to enjoy the otherwise very very cool feature!

      A larger one-off solution to this rigid assumptions for calculation problem might look like making a 鈥淏YO鈥 loan type where we can add our own amortization table, or alter the formula to match our specific loan details. It鈥檚 fine to have a default set of options that match the majority of your user base. But then provide the user an ability to adapt the algorithm to account for their individual loan. Expose the variables to us. Granted, yes, that鈥檚 a complicated UI and workflow to build in a way users will understand, but for the customers who know how they differ from the default parameters, it would allow in one place most users globally to address their loan types without YNAB needing to build out the majority of loan algorithms on the planet. If you鈥檙e worried about the support load for such a complex feature, make it clear in the UI that users can customize the algorithm by contacting support and allow the support team to modify variables for a single loan for a single user. 

      IDK, just spitballing. It just seems that there is too much variety for the current feature with its one rigid solution to be useful for the actual majority of loans across all users, including in the US.

      Having said all of that I do congratulate the team on a huge feature release, and a lot of creative thinking on how to expand the platform to help users take control of their money in new ways! Now let鈥檚 make it work for everyone! 

      Like 4
      • MXMOM
      • MXMOM
      • 1 mth ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      tekgy first of all, neuroscience and technology! sounds super interesting. 

      On the loans feature topic, I am a firm believer that  when software tries to be all things to all people, the core functionality starts to suffer.

      At the risk of getting on a soapbox, YNAB is a budgeting application (says so right there in the name). Intertwined with that, YNAB has positioned itself as a debt reduction tool. However, I argue that the debt reduction functionality has more in common with the budgeting functionality than with actual debt management. YNAB allows users to prioritize money they have and supports the fundamental concept of only spending REAL money.

      Other applications exist that do bookkeeping, investment tracking, amortization, etc.

      I have seen more and more users get confused by the basic application even though in concept it is very simple. List your total available cash. List all your spending categories. Assign available cash to spending categories. If you have cash left over after that, then further consideration of how to use that cash is required. If you run out of money before your categories are funded, an adjustment of some kind is required (spend less in another category or increase cash available). It is so simple that I tell people to outline it on paper before they even start with the YNAB setup. 

      Even the linked accounts are giving new users issues because they are relying on the import to enter the transactions which by definition are happening AFTER the purchase rather than requiring the user to interact with the budget and record transactions as they occur. I use the linked account function to ensure that I haven't missed any transactions and also to ensure that foreign currency purchases are recorded at the actual Canadian dollar charge to my account. 

      New users are trying to do everything at the beginning and getting overwhelmed. They are relying on 3rd party YouTuber explanations and forum support. They are getting caught up in coming up with cute names for categories. They are trying to get everything PERFECT and then do fresh start after fresh start.

      I believe that this is the wrong direction for YNAB. The company has a good product and a quirky identity. I think there are enough users of it as a budget program that the company does not need to concern itself with users jumping to other programs because loan functionality is missing. I don't know what their business plans are and what they're doing in the future but I think they are losing their way in trying to be all things to all people. 

      Like 6
  • I don't see an option for biweekly payments.  Is that available or planned?

    Like 2
    • Coral Unicorn You can determine a monthly payment amount by multiplying your biweekly payment by 26 then dividing by 12.

      Like
      • DPFisher
      • spreadsheet enthusiast
      • dpfisher
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Marisa 

      Hi Marisa, I had the same question, I pay my mortgage biweekly as opposed to monthly.  I love this new feature, but want to make sure I understand everything correctly.  Currently, my biweekly payment is $1,040.  So, most months I pay $2,080, but twice a year I pay $3,120.  If I set my monthly payment amount as the bi-weekly amount multiplied by 26, then divide by 12, or $2,253.33, for 10 months of the year I won't be meeting the minimum monthly payment amount.  How does YNAB treat this? 

      Right now I have it set up that my monthly payment is equal to $2,080, so twice a year I will be making an extra payment and I assume the time remaining and interest remaining will self adjust.  

      Thanks!

      Like
      • FPU-Fan
      • FPUFan
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      DPFisher I also have one with payments every two weeks. I simply set the minimum to 2X the bi-weekly payment. On the two times per year that you have a third payment, it'll just show that you paid extra that month.

      Like 1
      • FPU-Fan
      • FPUFan
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      DPFisher cont'd from last post:  I also did not create a debt payment target for that account. Instead, I used the payment feature on the loan page to create the next loan payment, the I went to the pay-from account register and edited the payment date to recur every two weeks. The loan payment page will now show that there will be two payments upcoming for the month.

      Like 1
    • DPFisher So sorry for this slow response - I overlooked the tag! 

      In order to get the Loan account to calculate properly, the monthly minimum payment in the Loan's Account Details is going to be more than what you pay in an average month. Specifically, it'll be $2,253.33.

      You can then budget $2253.33 each month, even though you won't pay that whole amount each month. That way, the extra funds accumulate over time. On the other hand, if you make the Target $2080, YNAB is going to say "This is less than the minimum payment - $2,253.33 - for this Loan account!" when you set the Target, but you can assign enough to cover the extra payment in those individual months.

      Like
      • DPFisher
      • spreadsheet enthusiast
      • dpfisher
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Marisa No worries!  lots of people to respond to, I am sure.  After investigating/playing with the new feature more, I agree, setting the minimum monthly payment equal to '26 times the bi-weekly divided by 12' is the best option, as this gives the most accurate pay-off date. 

      Like 1
  • How does it calculate the Payoff Date?  Mine is out by 4 years.  Is that because the feature only supports monthly payments?  All my loans are biweekly.

    Like
    • mitelman If you adjust that payment amount to reflect what you end up paying monthly, the payoff date will be much closer. Multiply your biweekly payment by 26 then divide by 12.

      Like
    • nolesrule
    • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
    • nolesrule
    • 1 mth ago
    • 2
    • Reported - view

    Coral Unicorn mitelman I get the feeling that they are U.S.-centric calculations, but until they answer my question we won't know for sure.

    Like 2
  • Rachel bit confused about how to handle my mortgage escrow account. Previously I had a tracking account for my mortgage as well as another for my escrow. It appears this new method is meant to combine them into a single account, is that correct? Do I close my old escrow account now?

    Additionally I used to pay my mortgage with 3 different categories (Mortgage, Homeowners Insurance, and Property Taxes) because it allows me to create a goal for each. If we could have multiple goals per category this wouldn't be an issue but now looks like I can only associate a single category with this new loan type. Is it still okay to go into my bank and setup a reoccurring payment there with a split transaction to use all 3 categories? Wasn't clear if that would mess anything up in the background.

    Like 1
    • Dustin Do you include escrow (insurance and property taxes) in your single monthly mortgage payment?

      Like
      • Dustin
      • Orange_Crab.3
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Marisa Marisa Yea, my escrow is paid each month as part of my overall mortgage payment. 

      Like
    • Dustin Great question! The new mortgage Loan account asks the amount you pay to escrow, but that's purely to keep the balance on track. The account will not keep track of the total escrow held, and there isn't a way to record expenses to the escrow in the Loan account. If you'd like to keep track of the total escrow, we recommend continuing to use a Tracking account!

      To do that, you would set up the Loan account without escrow (click "No" when YNAB asks if your payments include escrow), and record your whole monthly payment as a split transfer transaction, transferring the escrow amount to your Escrow Tracking account and the rest to the Loan account. You'll continue to budget for the escrow in a separate category from the Loan payment. Here's an example of what the monthly payment would look like.

      The Loan account will keep track of the balance and interest charges, and your Escrow Tracking account will keep track of your escrow funds. You can also record expenses to escrow in that Tracking account.

      Like
      • Dustin
      • Orange_Crab.3
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Marisa thank you for the explanation but can you clarify why there is an option to track Escrow/fees on the loan type but no way to actually pay the escrow expenses from the account? Doesn't that defeat the purpose for the people that have escrows and check "yes"? Who would actually use the loan type and check yes to track the escrow as the instructions made it seem like I was the prime candidate for that? I think I may be missing something - would be great if you could clarify a bit more. 

      Your example is basically how I was doing my mortgage before except now one account is a loan account and one is tracking instead of both being tracking. 

      Like 1
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Dustin Can i ask what escrow means to you so i can translate into my own mortgage structure?

      Like
      • Dustin
      • Orange_Crab.3
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      SgtBatten escrow is a type of an account that is required by some states that you pay to each month to hold money for your homeowners insurance and property taxes. The lender will then pay your bill for homeowners insurance and property taxes out of that account. 

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Dustin Appreciate it. Not something that we have an equivalent of but i understand the reason it's so prominent in the YNAB interface now. 

      Like
    • Dustin said:
      thank you for the explanation but can you clarify why there is an option to track Escrow/fees on the loan type but no way to actually pay the escrow expenses from the account? 

       Great question! It is necessary to know if escrow is a part of your mortgage payment, in order to calculate interest and payoff dates correctly. But wanting to track those totals and payouts is a really great Feature Request.

      Like
  • I've just got the option to change my accounts over. I have a split mortgage with 3 fixed loans of ~$189000 and one variable loan of ~$80000.

    1. will YNAB handle a single repayments category for all 4 loans at once like i have setup now?

    2. How will YNAB track or handle variable interest rates. We can only fix interest rates for 5 years maximum here, nothing like the US, so all of my rates will change many times over 30 years.

    3. Why can't we convert an existing account to a new mortgage account? it says he balance history will be carried over to the new account so this seems odd to now possibly have a double up of history over two accounts. 

    4. how will it handle redrawable funds. Anything extra i pay into my variable loan I can redraw at any time. Currently I owe $80k but the balance is about half that. Essentially I put all my spare money into it as it's the best return on cash available, offsetting the mortgage interest.
     

    5. My house was only purchased this year. I'd like to start the account from the beginning to get the full history. How can i do this

    Like 1
  • Please make sure there are options to calculate the amortization correctly outside of the US as well. We already pay a premium for features we can鈥檛 use (direct import), it would suck if there are even more features we can鈥檛 use.

    Like 2
  • Where the heck is the ledger? Don't tell me we lost the ability to do things historically?

    I have a redraw account where my overpaid funds are able to be withdrawn minus one months payment. So i have to track that one month as a sneaky extra payment at the beginning of the loan. Every time my interest rate changes (and my repayment changes to suit) this amount is recalculated so i have to edit the sneaky payment. 

    Like 1
    • SgtBatten Whew - this caught me off guard as well.  But you can find it in All Accounts, when you filter by account.

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Marisa Ahh excellent. I'm going to be a test case and put in my loans full history (began in may)

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Marisa Could you please advise of the ledger entry (specifically payee) for the interest amounts?

      I entered payee as interest but the mortgage account treats that as an "other payment"

      Like
    • SgtBatten You'll want to change the starting balance transaction in your loan account to be the oldest transaction, then move your full payment transactions to the loan account. The loan account will automatically calculate the interest, even retroactively.

      Like
  • When the option to use the new features shows up, will it be clear? I鈥檝e hunted for it but don鈥檛 see it for my account yet. 

    Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tugboat Yes, in the loan account it is a blue banner across the top of the screen.

      Like
    • SgtBatten the loan account doesn鈥檛 show up as a feature for me yet. That鈥檚 what I meant 鈥 when it does is it obvious?

      Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tugboat Yes, it'll be obvious and there will be a dot next your account notifying there's something new.

      Like 1
    • Thanks all. 

      Like 1
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Sky Blue Tugboat I meant in your existing tracking version of the loan, but yeah it's obvious.

      Like 1
    • Sky Blue Tugboat You'll see a blue banner at the top of your tracking accounts when the Loan Account features are rolled out to you. It should happen some time this week!

      Like 1
  • SgtBatten said:
    Marisa Do we have the ability to edit the interest amount ourselves after YNAB adds it? Are there plans to allow customisation of the calculation?  

     The interest is an estimate, and you won't see it in All Accounts (just as there is no interest transaction in y潭o潭u潭r潭 many  real-life mortgage accounts). You can make a balance adjustment at any time, though, and that will account for any differences.

    Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Marisa What!

      There is literally interest transactions in my real life mortgage account though. Every month, on the last business day of the month. 

      Like 1
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Marisa Please see below: 

      1. Bank ledger

      2. Ynab tracking account being exactly the same and,

      3.  the new mortgage account.

       

      With no ability to edit the interest its not going to work.

      Like 2
    • SgtBatten Good stuff! Can you reach out to our support team and let them know what you're seeing?

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Marisa on it

      Like 1
    • SgtBatten I apparently should have said "my mortgage account" 馃槄

      Like
      • Yes I can
      • yesican2020
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Marisa My mortgages - with two different banks in Australia - both look like this in terms of showing an interest transaction.

      BTW, well done to the team on the new feature. No sure if I'll use yet - as I'm less interested in my mortgage totals in terms of YNAB than I am in credit cards (which YNAB handles beautifully)

      Like 2
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Yes I can I've given the feedback, and will continue to monitor these accounts for updates but i'm going to have to go back to the tracking account. Luckily ctrl+z undoes almost everything, then i just needed to delete the new mortgage account. So feel free to convert one and test, then revert if necessary.

      Like 2
      • Yes I can
      • yesican2020
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      SgtBatten interesting. Love Ctrl Z

      Like
  • Brb, getting a mortgage to use the feature

    Like 6
  • Small feedback so far, it wasn't clear to me that the left-hand side (see image) was a calculator to get a preview of interests that would be saved. Maybe missing a description or something?

    Also, what is the "Copy and go to my budget" supposed to do? For Monthly Payment, it brings me to the target and highlights the amount, but puts the old monthly payment which was setup. For "One time extra", it goes to my assigned category amount but doesn't input any amount. So in both cases, it just seems to do "Go to my budget" and missing the Copy part?

    Like
  • A few things so far:

    1. One category per loan is unfortunate. A family with two car payments should have the option to use one or two categories as they see fit. I have a $3/mo "convenience fee" (scam) with each car payment, which shows up as a second transaction on my bank. I've always categorized that as "car payment" and would prefer not to add a whole category for that. I am also an Escrow tracker (it's technically my money, and you get it back if you refi) and have always enjoyed paying my mortgage and my escrow both out of my "Mortgage" category. I don't know that I want to separate those out on my reports.

    2. In the "Net Worth" report, when selecting accounts to display, loans still appear under the category of "Tracking Accounts" - this seems like an oversight rather than intentional behavior :) it is also unclear to me how these will display over time, without interest occurring as transactions, but I guess we'll have to wait and find out.

    3. I don't love that the ledger is hidden under All Accounts without transactions for interest. I like to display a running balance on my ledger so I can watch my balance go down, and view my balance as a function of time. The All Accounts workaround can't display a running balance.

    4. Inability to reconcile interest payments is a hard pill for my OCD brain to swallow. I would LOVE to have this as a view on top of the historical features we had, and have an option to click to some kind of "advanced view" that gives us back the full control you get with a tracking account.

    I have always loved YNAB for being the nitty gritty, no penny unaccounted for/every penny has a job, steep learning curve, power user's budgeting platform. While the new loan interface is beautiful and provides wonderful insights, I worry that it also dumbs down the experience for power users. Trust the algorithm, or "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" stands in contrast to what I see as YNAB's strong points.

    Like 8
      • Ceeses
      • Ceeses
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      RocketBran Does it have to be 1 category per loan? You can't choose the same category for 2 different loans? I don't see anything there that should prevent it.

      Like
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

        Ceeses Support in this thread confirmed it earlier. I think the documentation also mentions it. 

      Like
    • RocketBran This is all great feedback - would you be willing to send it over to support? I know our product team is carefully collecting thoughts. 

      Like
  • This is my favorite feature yet! 

    Question... Will we soon have a similar calculator for credit card accounts? I'm in the debt payoff phase and love tinkering with third-party tools to see just how soon I can be debt-free.

    I'm thinking about switching my CC accounts to "other debt" so I have the calculator and automated interest because I don't charge to those cards anymore. Is there any reason why I shouldn't? 

    Like 1
    • Pineapple Gal So glad you like it! I've found it really motivating to see how much a single extra payment will save me in interest. 

      Loans and credit cards do handle interest differently, so this tool won't work for credit card debt. So I'd encourage you to send over a Feature Request in which you let us know which parts of the loan accounts you'd find most useful for your credit card accounts.

      Like 1
      • MXMOM
      • MXMOM
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Pineapple Gal I would recommend undebt.it. Its free. It works.

      Like 1
      • Pineapple Gal
      • Goal-Getter
      • Orchid_Wrench.11
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      MXMOM Absolutely! I use and love undebt.it, but I'd love something like this designed into YNAB, too.

      Like 1
  • Is there a way to go back from the loan account to a tracking account? I wanted to have a look but it won't work for me. I have an offset account so the interest calculated by YNAB will be completely off: I offset ~4/5th of the mortgage, ie. I pay interests only on 1/5th of the mortgage.

    I could still use the loan account and ignore the "interest paid so far".

    Like 1
      • SgtBatten
      • "YNAB broke" since 2013
      • SgtBatten
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Ceeses if you did it on a pc you can hit undo a few times to fix most of it then delete the new loan account.

      otherwise simply delete the new account, restore the tracking account and delete the closing balance adjustment. Then restore any goals and scheduled transactions that got destroyed.

      Like
      • Ceeses
      • Ceeses
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      SgtBatten thanks. Done

      Like
    • Ceeses Yep - Sgt Batten has it. Offsets will surely be outside the norm, so please do send over your feedback so we have plenty of use cases to work with! 

      Like
    • nolesrule
    • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
    • nolesrule
    • 1 mth ago
    • Reported - view
    RocketBran said:
    So now my question is whether banks round interest every month or not. I did some comparison charts and the difference won't show up on my statements for another several years.

     The answer is yes, they round the interest. They also round the payment. The end result is that the last month payment amount can be slightly higher or lower than the normal month.

    Like
  • Thank you for the new feature! I'm relatively new to YNAB but loving it so far.

    I converted a couple of Tracking accounts to test, an auto loan and a mortgage. I noticed the conversion process doesn't actually close the Tracking account. It does everything else listed in "What will happen to my existing liability account?", including setting the balance to zero and appending (Original) to the name, but at the end of the process, both accounts were still open and listed under Tracking accounts.

    Being relatively new to YNAB I didn't have any Closed accounts before today, and I didn't realize I should have seen a Closed account group appear. Originally I thought I'd have to live with both the Loan and Tracking accounts in sidebar forever if I wanted to keep my Net Worth history intact; I spent some time looking for options to hide an account. It took some time and research to realize the final account closure never happened and I had to do it manually.

    Unsure if I should use the developer feedback form for this, since it's a bug (either in the product, or the documentation) rather than a feature request.

    Like
    • jyoung8607 Glad you're loving it! But sorry you ran into that snag - this does sound a bit odd! And you're right - you'll want to use this bug report form instead. Would you be up for filling that out to let our team know what you experienced? 

      Like
      • jyoung8607
      • jyoung8607
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      I actually noticed something else after I made my post: in addition to leaving the accounts open, it turns out the scheduled transactions that paid the loans are still in the closed accounts as well, those were supposed to be deleted. Maybe the account closure aborted due to something about those?

      Rachel Certainly, I'll fill out a bug report. I'm accustomed to "eating my own dogfood" as well as other software early adoption trials and travails. 馃檪 These are things I know I could fix manually, but they would confuse less savvy users.

      Like 1
    • jyoung8607 Hmmm, yes! It almost sounds as if the migration process didn't start for that new loan account at all. Thanks for submitting a bug report - our team can definitely help you determine if something is amiss here!

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      jyoung8607 My educated guess is that the new feature assumes one already has closed accounts and if you don't, the migration feature fails. Most likely they didn't test a budget without any closed accounts. That's my guess anyway.

      Like
      • jyoung8607
      • jyoung8607
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Superbone A fair guess but I don't think it's the case. Earlier today, before I filed the bug report, I converted a third Tracking account after closing the first one manually, and the same thing happened.

      For the time being, I left the third converted Tracking account open and left all three scheduled transactions as-is, for the YNAB devs to be able to look at my bug report. Perhaps there's something atypical about the way I set things up.

      This isn't really fatal for use of the Loans feature, it's just left me with a tiny bit of one-time janitorial work to do. However, it shouldn't be necessary and seems to indicate a process breakdown worthy of investigation. I'm assuming there's some transaction logging on their side they can look at.

      Like 2
  • I followed the wizard and got set up OK. I don't know what my current minimum payment would be, but I did enter an estimate. The original paydown date was Oct 2040, my current paydown date is Oct 2033, and YNAB lists Nov 2033, which is close enough for me not to care as I'll probably pay it down earlier in any event. As it's already a 7-year-old mortgage, I didn't retroactively fiddle any with the history to make the numbers more accurate as it seemed like much busywork for little gain.


    I used to enter a split transaction of principal payment, interest, and fee. Now I'll make a single payment, and YNAB will perform the calculations? This new feature should save me some time as my interest rate does change every so often. 馃憤

    Like
  • So how does this work exactly for mortgage loans with - Principal , Interest & Escrow?

    I have 3 separate categories under BUDGET for each - thanks

    Like
    • Turquoise Hail  With the new loan accounts, you can enter the amount of your monthly escrow payment when you set it up, and this will help YNAB to calculate the amounts going to principal and interest. You'd use one category for your full payment.

      Like
  • The mortgage is assumed to be paid monthly - mine is paid weekly and the acceleration substantially reduces the interest.

    Also does this use the US mortgage compounding rules or Canadian? I hear they are different.

    Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Pink Wildebeest 

      Pink Wildebeest said:
      Also does this use the US mortgage compounding rules or Canadian? I hear they are different.

       The formula uses U.S. mortgage interest calculations.

      Like
    • Pink Wildebeest Yes, it's using US-based calculations. As far as those weekly payments go - things should still track if you multiply your weekly payment by 52, then divide by 12 - enter this number as the monthly minimum payment amount in the Loan account!

      Like
  • This doesn't fit my Line of Credit. The required payment is the interest only and based on the balance so it varies every month (hopefully always going down).

    Like
    • Pink Wildebeest Actually it should: I have a similar HELOC and it's working. You can enter zero for the minimum payment and YNAB will do the right thing, on both the Budget/Target side (mentions it's interest only) and the Loan account side (won't let you forecast a payment lower than the monthly interest).

      Like
    • Pink Wildebeest You're right - based on the info I have from your post, I think this account is probably left as a liability tracking account (if that's how it's currently set up!), or set up as a credit card account.

      Like
  • I'm unsure if this is the right place but it seems I've encountered an issue of sorts with the loan accounts.

    I had 1 category that paid 2 off-budget (debt) accounts.

    I moved 1 of these accounts to a new loan account, tied to that category. The result is that I now get the "Uh-oh - Something has gone wrong likely having to do with internets and tubes. Refresh your browser to get back in business." message when I either click on the category or 'get into' the account.

    The issue has been fixed by deleting the account without 'entering' it and setting it up again after I've set up a separate category for the 2nd account.

     

    As for thing's I would like, I have a couple of annuity mortgage type loans that are set in time rather than set in 鈧  / month.  For example, if I pay off ~鈧250 on one account the amount I need to pay each month goes down ~鈧4. There are also some interest calculation type problems going on, but others have elaborated on that enough. I can manipulate the budget enough for it to be acceptable but having an option to deal with this kind of loan would be awesome.

    Like
    • Rorusbass  I'm glad you were able to get around that internets and tubes error, but if you're up for it, our bugs team would definitely like to hear about that!

      As far as feedback goes, here's how to get that into the hands of the product team. Thanks for letting us know how things went! 

      Like
  • I have switched all of my mortgage and auto loans to a new loan account. Is there a way to move a credit card to a loan account? I have a loan for some windows that we had replaced, and tracked it as a credit card, but it is not technically a credit card. 

    Like
    • Slate Gray Cello If that is a standard consumer loan, you'll be able to set it up as a loan account, but you won't be able to migrate it from a credit card account in YNAB.

      Like
  • Really need an option for loans that follow a different payment model. For example, my mortgage is bi-weekly. I got around the limitation of just doing the math to determine the monthly amount.

    Like
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