If I want to kick the tires...

I'm wanting to give nYNAB a test drive, but I just want confirmation that doing a migration is not going to effect my current YNAB 4. I assume that it will be fine, but I just want to make sure. I haven't decided that I'm ready to give up YNAB 4, so I still need it to be functional after doing the migration.

 

Thank you!

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  • Proceed with confidence.  The migration tool only uploads data to nYNAB; it does nothing to your data in YNAB4.

    Like 1
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      HappyDance 

      Thank you so much! I figured it would be fine, but the idea it might not be was giving me anxiety. I will definitely proceed with confidence now. :)

      Like 1
  • TBH, you might want to kick the tires with a blank budget. If you decide to delve deeper, then perhaps migrate at that point.

    The migration doesn't actually migrate category balances, which will probably be hosed because of differences in overspending handling. It will take some time to fix up the current month. (Budget whatever is necessary to match balances.)

    Like
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui 

      Thanks for the forewarning, but I think I got really lucky on this one. It looks like everything came over perfectly. It seems like the problem areas with the migration are with things that I didn't use in my budget, like I never used the little red arrow and I didn't use YNAB for credit card debt. It looks like all my scheduled payments have come over correctly too. I'm new to this format so I might be missing something, but so far it looks like everything in my budget is correct.

      Like 1
      • HappyDance
      • YNABing consistently since 2014
      • HappyDance
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo 

      Nice!   That was my experience as well.  Not having to adjust for red arrow or pre-YNAB debt certainly makes the transition easier.

      I did find the credit card handling very frustrating to deal with and vulnerable to going off the rails. It made me delete my nYNAB budget in frustration a number of times. I gave it an honest try before converting all my cc accounts to cash-based chequing accounts, which makes them function exactly like YNAB4 credit cards.

      Like 1
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      HappyDance 

      Well, that is really interesting about the credit cards. I was hoping to start using them in my YNAB budget, but it doesn't sound like nYNAB handles them very well. I handled all our old CC debt in just a spreadsheet file. We weren't using them and were only paying them down so that worked fine. I now have a zero balance and I was going to bring it into YNAB, but the last thing I need is to go off the rails. I might just set it up as cash-based like you're doing. Thanks for the heads up!

      Like 1
      • Budget_NC
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo Congratulations.  It sounds like you may have experienced the most perfect migration in YNAB history.  I had used the red arrow far too frequently and my migration was rather messy.

      Like 1
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      bobbucy It's amazing how easy it is to not abuse a function if you don't even know it exists! LOL I'd been using YNAB for a couple years before I even learned the red arrow was there. I always would just WAM my categories to make everything balance each month. By the time I learned the red arrow was there, we were much better off financially and I didn't have to WAM so much, so I wasn't even tempted to red arrow then. So my ignorance is what made my migration so pain-free! ;D

      Like
      • WordTenor
      • Can we agree that goals are dumb and immature? Sure.
      • WordTenor
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo re: the credit cards, there seems to be an inverse correlation between how much someone liked them in version 4 and how much they like them in nYNAB. So if you had kept them out of 4 because you found them confusing, you may be among those who love the new handling. 

      Like 2
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      WordTenor I did keep my CCs out of YNAB 4 because I didn't care for the way it was handled. It just ended up being easier for me to keep using my debt reduction spreadsheet for those. Part of the draw for me trying nYNAB was that I knew CCs were handled differently. I did watch a few videos today about how CCs are done now. Honestly, it made a lot of sense to me. I'm going to give it a try, but I'll proceed with caution in case I find I like it in theory but not so much in practice. My only concern is finding out that I don't like it and then trying to detangle it from my budget. Cross that bridge when/if I get to it, I guess. :)

      Like 1
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo I find the CC handling in YNAB really easy BUT I don't have any of the things that are likely to cause problems e.g. 

      • rewards given as a statement credit
      • lots of refunds
      • anything that takes your credit card balance positive

      The other main things that seem to confuse people with the native handling are:

      • the CC payment category represents how much money you have set aside to pay towards the next credit card bill. Just think of it the same way as the groceries category. If you have £150 in the groceries category, then you can safely spend that £150 on groceries without affecting the rest of the budget. Similarly, if you have £150 in the credit card category you can send £150 to the credit card company without affecting the rest of the budget.
      • you need to budget directly to the CC payment category for the starting balance. After that, for any budgeted credit card spending, YNAB automatically transfers the funds from the e.g. groceries category to the CC payment category so that it is set aside to pay the bill. NB this will not happen if you have overspending OR if you have a positive balance on the credit card.

      If your credit cards are paid in full (PIF) (using the YNAB definition that you could pay off the full balance at any point even though you may only pay the statement balance on the due date), then it's pretty simple from there. You just need to check that the positive amount of funds in the CC payment category is the same as the negative balance on your credit card. You can make it easier to spot if these go out of sync using the PIF credit card assist tool on the Toolkit but it's not necessary just keep an eye on the numbers.

      I also have a credit card where I am paying down a 0% balance over time. I've set a goal to pay that balance off over the remaining 0% period so it tells me how much I need to budget each month to achieve that. Again, I just need to look at the CC payment category to see how much I can afford to send to the credit card each month.

      Where things get slightly more complicated is if you have a mixed use card (i.e. carrying debt and using for purchases) or where you are riding the credit card float. With the float, people often don't realise they have an issue because they have always paid the statement balance in full when it is due but as they couldn't pay the balance off in full at any given point, the card isn't truly PIF. This system only works if you make current payments on a credit card to generate the cashflow to pay off past purchases. In either case you can see what is true debt on your card by comparing the amount you have in the CC payment category to the actual balance. The difference is debt and you can then set up goals to pay this down. There are many documents and threads on the credit card float if that applies. 

      I'm sorry that turned into such a long reply and that I may have addressed things that don't apply to you - I now can't adjust the screen layout to see what you've written! - I really just wanted to add a voice to those supporting using the native CC handing. It's great for people like me. I also understand that the making CCs checking accounts tactic only works for cards that are truly paid in full.

      Like 2
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo Glad things came across will for you. For the benefit of others, it's not just red-arrow usage that will mess up migrated balances.

      ANY overspending in a category with CC transactions will cause it to have an incorrect balance.

      Like 1
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger Thanks so much for all of this information! I appreciate you taking the time to explain all of that.

      My CC is truly paid in full. I only have it for the rewards. If I make a purchase with it, I immediately go and pay it off. So I guess I'll have to educate myself on how the rewards as a statement credit works in YNAB because that's exactly the scenario I have. I hadn't considered how a positive balance on the CC would work. I guess I should go figure that out. Thanks again! :)

      Like
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo OK so the first question is why? It's entirely up to you of course but there is no reason to pay your credit cards in this way. It's just unnecessary busy work at best and makes you more likely to encounter some of the issues with native CC handling. I do appreciate that this might be a psychological response to a distrust of CC, having had CC issues in the past or because you have a low credit limit. However, I think it's worth challenging whether this approach is necessary if you have a good handle on your finances. That's a personal thing and totally your decision.

      However, as you say it's worth looking into how the CC handling system works when the account balance is positive or when you get directly credited rewards. I don't have either of these situations so I have only minimal understanding. dakinemaui is one of the experts in this area and I know they are already involved in this thread so I will leave any explanations in their more capable hands. 

      Of course, as you never carry a balance, the alternative of setting up the CC as a checking account would work for you.

      Like 3
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger It is absolutely a psychological response! I'm 47 and this is my first credit card. My husband had a lot of credit card debt when we got married though, and even after we started YNAB, he was very, very bad about using the CC when he could have instead been spending through our bank accounts and not accruing additional interest charges. So there I was snowballing payments trying to pay down the cards while he's still secretly spending on them, and I'm left wondering why the balances are not going down. It was infuriating! Thankfully that stopped and we've now paid off four cards. We have two left to go. In the meantime, I just wanted to build up my own credit score and get some cashback rewards. That's why I got my own card. Maybe after I've used it longer, I'll relax a bit on paying it back immediately, but for right now it just makes me feel better. :)

      Like
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo That's as good a reason as any. 

      Like 2
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger I ended up watching several YouTube videos on using YNAB with zero balance CCs and cash back rewards/refunds. I decided it's just way more convoluted than I want to deal with. There's so much adjusting you have to do in the budget that it just isn't worth it to me. My CC is now set up as a checking account.

      Thank you again for all your input!

      Like 4
    • WordTenor
    • Can we agree that goals are dumb and immature? Sure.
    • WordTenor
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Also relevant: you can dump nYNAB data out into CSV and back into YNAB 4. 

    Like
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      WordTenor 

      That is very good to know. Thank you. One big reason I've been hesitant to make the switch is because my husband doesn't like learning new tricks. It took me a long, long time to get him using the program correctly (at least a year).  My worry is that we'll migrate over and I'll be back at square one with him and I'm not sure I have the patience for that again! LOL  Knowing that we can go back if he has me crying uncle helps a lot.

      Like
    • WordTenor As I recall, split transactions did not come across going back to YNAB4. Is that correct?

      Like
    • MsTJ
    • YNAB has given me back my future
    • Believer_in_YNAb
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I have PIF credit cards.  All I do regularly is verify my available amount and card balances are equal but opposite.  Then set up my cards to pull the balance due, when due.  No fuss, no muss,  works flawlessly, for me.  I use them for most of my purchases, for the rewards, and only adjust the balance due when the new statement arrives.  I love how nYNAB handles them.  Sorry you had to go to a checking account to handle them.  

    Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      MsTJ What's there to love? The checking account method is even easier. Cuts out the middle man and the extra step of babysitting verifying the payment available amount.

      Like 4
      • MsTJ
      • YNAB has given me back my future
      • Believer_in_YNAb
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Superbone to each their own.  I like the way YNAB handles credit cards and it works perfectly for me.  

      Like 1
      • MsTJ
      • YNAB has given me back my future
      • Believer_in_YNAb
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone You are more than welcome to argue for your limitations.  I choose differently.

      Like
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Having done both: starting with CC accounts, switching them to checking accounts, and back to CC accounts, I like the latter now. I never have problems with returns or credits messing up balances. I pay statement balances on the due dates,  and although I know I can always pay the full balance, I love seeing that green available amount offsetting the negative balance amount in the accounts themselves.

      I guess if I did start having mismatch problems, I might consider switching back the checking accounts for CCs, but after months of doing it this way with no trouble, I'm a happy glamper with them as CCs.

      Like
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      JoeDid 

      To make sure I'm understanding the steps for rewards, this is how I believe it works:

      I get a $50 statement reward. That shows up as TBB. I budget it to groceries. Now I spend $50 on groceries. If my CC is set up as a checking account, I'm done at this point. The account is $0 and my budget screen is correct.

      On the other hand, if I have it set up as a credit card, now when I go to the budget screen, it says I'm overspent $50. So now I have to move $50 from the CC payment to TBB and put it back into my budget again. 

      I don't understand why the $50 reward doesn't show up on the budget screen as a  negative $50 payment so that when I spend that $50 on groceries, it just zeroes out and I don't have to juggle things around on the budget screen again. 

      So I'm wondering if there are benefits that I don't realize about having it set up as a CC that makes it worth going through the extra steps. Right now my account is empty so deleting it and switching back and forth is no problem, but I'm sure changing it down the road will be much more challenging. So now's the time for me to get smart. :)

      Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      JoeDid Thank you for the explanation. I could see that.

      MsTJ  I didn't mean to offend. I'm glad it works for you.

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo Not speaking for JoeDid  but as long as you always pay your statement in full, I believe the only benefit is what he mentioned about always seeing that matching balance in green. After I ran into a few of the outliers that messed up this payment amount, I switched to the checking account method and it has been bliss ever since. That was about a year and a half ago.

      Like
      • MsTJ
      • YNAB has given me back my future
      • Believer_in_YNAb
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo I take my rewards as a transfer to my regular checking account.  I don't count them until they arrive, and are spendable, from money I have on hand.  As long as the rewards are only a number in my card account statements, it is not spendable, and therefore is not added to my budget.  I also don't use the rewards to make my card payments directly.  The rewards card I use gives 1% on spending and 1% on payments.  If I just used the rewards to pay the balance, it would not earn the rewards.  This doesn't make much difference, given my spending, and even little bits help in my budget.  

      Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      MsTJ I agree and do the same and have the same card. I do this with all my cash rewards cards.

      Like 1
      • WordTenor
      • Can we agree that goals are dumb and immature? Sure.
      • WordTenor
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo The only benefit that I see is that you can avoid fully pre-seeding reimbursements with a credit card account type. If you regularly receive reimbursements, you can leave CC overspending to hold the rest of the budget steady while you wait to be paid back. 

      Like 1
    • WordTenor regarding reimbursements, not offsetting the category is departing from the original assumption of paid-in-full status.

      That said, there are easy procedures for reimbursements (other than an offset category). They are equivalent in effort to the Temporary Debt approach with a credit account.

      In other words, there is no appreciable difference for either type of representation.

      Like
      • WordTenor
      • Can we agree that goals are dumb and immature? Sure.
      • WordTenor
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui Sure, technically, if one wants to get super pedantic about it. But if one wants to get pedantic about it, most of the things the standard handling does accurately represents what's happening in the relationship between the card and the budget and so using a checking account type isn't necessary. 

      Why use a checking account to represent a CC? Because it streamlines some things. Why use the CC handling to handle reimbursement? Because it streamlines some different things. 

      Depends on what someone wants streamlined. 

      I confess I have yet to see a version of reimbursements aside from pre-seeding that I find as straightforward as temporary debt for my use case, but I also confess that my eyes cross whenever someone makes a post about how to handle reimbursements that has four paragraphs of text about tracking accounts, so maybe I'm missing out on something that would be even simpler, but I doubt it. 

      Like 1
    • WordTenor My point was the CC account representation does not streamline reimbursements, the offset category does. If one chooses to not offset the category, both representations are equally as cumbersome, requiring budget manipulation in the event the reimbursement crosses months (or equally as transparent if it doesn't).

      Like
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Superbone That's pretty much it: the green available balance, a reassurance that I'm good; with the added element that I have never had problems with them set up at CCs. I don't deal in reimbursements; rewards and returns are easily dealt with. 

      Mind you, I am not now, nor have I ever, advocated for the CC version versus the checking account version. To all their own, and since this works for me, that's where I sit.

      Like 2
  • KaraBoo said:
    I don't understand why the $50 reward doesn't show up on the budget screen

    Because the budget is solely comprised of cash, and a reward in a credit account is not technically cash.

    If you represent your CC with a checking account, the technicality that you incur debt until you make the payment is swept under the rug. It's just not an important detail for a paid-in-full card.

    Much as your speed driving down there highway is closer to 67,000 MPH (because the Earth is also going around the sun), but that's just not an important detail.

    Like 2
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui Did I miss something? This thread is kind of all over the place, but in my case rewards do show up on the budget screen because I enter them as Income: TBB, and distribute from there. Some CCs may not allow cash distributions of rewards, meaning they will only credit the CC account. That's not the case with me (although that option exists.) I prefer to get the cash and work with that.

      Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      JoeDid Yes, we're talking about the reward issued as a statement credit. The default CC handling in YNAB complicates that slightly, usually requiring an adjustment in the budget to get the reward to actually show up in TBB. Discussion is further complicated by a positive CC account balance, which causes its own set of issues with TBB.

      Like 1
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui Got it.

      Like
  • KaraBoo said:
    On the other hand, if I have it set up as a credit card, now when I go to the budget screen, it says I'm overspent $50.

    It shouldn't say that.

    Bottom line: using a checking account implicitly reserves money for the entire account balance at all times. (The very definition of paid in full status, BTW.) Overspending is taken out of next month's TBB since increasing (post-payment) CC debt is not possible.

    Like 1
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui I added screen shots of what I'm talking about. The only transactions in my AmEx CC are a $50 reward and a $50 payment. And when I do that, the budget screen shows negative $50 to be budgeted and a $50 payment to the CC even though the CC balance is zero. So I would have to move the $50 payment to TBB to be back to $0 again. 

      Like
    • KaraBoo I don't think you're comparing apples to apples. You budgeted more money than you possess in this case.

      My earlier statement also assumes the purchase is a budgeted purchase, as that's the only kind a PIF user will make.

      Like
    • KaraBoo Also, I notice you are also taking the CC positive with the reward. FTR, a positive CC account behaves EXACTLY as a checking account. I mean that purchase doesn't need to be paid back, right?

      Like
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui I'm not sure I fully understand your point. I got a $50 reward. That came in as a positive $50 to be budgeted. I budgeted that to groceries. I then went and spent $50 on groceries. So, yes, I treated it just as if it were a checking account. But when I go to my budget screen, it now shows negative $50 to be budgeted because it moved that $50 from the groceries to my CC payment, even though the CC is now at $0. If the budget screen were treating it just like checking, they would have just zeroed each other out.

      Like
    • KaraBoo report that as a bug, then. The CC Payment category Available should NOT increase for a purchase made with a positive CC account.

      Like
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui It's my understanding that that's exactly how it's supposed to function, which is why I didn't want to set it up as a CC and have it as a checking account now.  This YouTube video explained it all and my setup is functioning just like his. I just don't like it. ;)

      (At timestamp 1:22 he walks through the reward as a statement credit)

      Like
    • KaraBoo If you redeem your reward prior to making your CC payment, you'll never be in this situation.

      Like
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui If by redeem you mean that I should convert my reward to cash and have it deposited into my actual checking account, I can't do that. With my card, your rewards only come in the form of statement credits or gift cards with specific vendors.

      Like
    • KaraBoo No, I mean redeem as in tell the CC to apply it to your account. You would see you don't have to pay as much and wouldn't wind up overpaying the CC (taking it positive).

      The video doesn't have TBB go negative, so again, I don't think you're comparing the same situation with the two representations (or with the video). You also mentioned overspending originally, which is what I meant shouldn't happen, but I didn't see that in your screenshot.

      Like
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui His is not going negative because 1) he already had money budgeted to the category prior to the reward money coming in and 2) even though he set the reward as TBB, he didn't actually go to the budget screen and budget the money before he made the purchase outflow. But it's still functioning the exact same way as mine is.  Here's my screen recording (first run through, I budgeted the money first. Second run though, I didn't budget it and just spent on the card):

      Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo Thanks for the video, it was helpful to see exactly what your doing. I'll think about it further, but at the moment I'm at a loss. It looks like a bug to me.

      Hopefully one of the others can shed some light on it.

      Like 1
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui I'm so glad that helped! I use lots of words, but I'm garbage at actually explaining things. I'm glad you can see what I'm talking about now and why I'm so confused. :)

      Like
    • Hi KaraBoo !

      It looks like this is a date issue. Since you're receiving the reward and spending it on the same day, it isn't registering that the reward came first (and thus shouldn't result in spending moving to the credit card category or overspending). If the reward is dated for 11/1 and the spending is 11/2 you'll see a different reaction in your budget. Sorry for the confusion! 

      Like 1
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness Thank you. So basically I'll see this any time I input a reward and also use my card for spending on the same day? Is this a bug?

      Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo If the CC Payment category is increased for a cash purchase (i.e., while the CC account is positive), it's a design flaw since that purchase clearly does not need to be paid off. I think the best thing for YNAB to do when multiple transactions are present on a given day is to consider inflows first and outflows from smallest to largest second, just as a normal bank does. (Banks do this to minimize the number of overdraft transactions.)

      Again, though, this issue is only an issue because you're taking the account positive in your example. In actual usage, the CC account typically remains negative (assuming you're paying the statement balance and using the card).

      However, even if you choose to pay the entire working account balance, you can easily take the reward into consideration and pay correspondingly less such that the account is $0 AFTER the payment and reward are applied.

      Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui 

      dakinemaui said:
      (Banks do this to minimize the number of overdraft transactions.)

       Only because they got caught churning fees and were slapped for it.

      Like 1
    • nolesrule I knew there had to be a reason. It didn't strike me as being in the bank's best interest to do so. Avoiding another slapdown makes it clear. 😉

      Like
      • WordTenor
      • Can we agree that goals are dumb and immature? Sure.
      • WordTenor
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui Yeah it’s back from when the CFPB actially P’d C’s Fs. 

      Like
    • KaraBoo Currently, this is expected behavior because transactions in a register with the same date are processed from largest outflow to largest inflow. dakinemaui is correct that in day-to-day use this doesn't usually pose an issue, but sorry for the confusion here!

      Like
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness Just to clarify, this only applies to CC accounts, correct? Because when I run this same scenario with it set up as a checking account, it works as I would expect without overspending on my budget screen.  

      Like
    • KaraBoo The transactions will still be processed in the same order, but because money isn't moved between categories when using a checking account you won't see the overspending issue.

      Like 1
  • KaraBoo said:
    I'm wondering if there are benefits that I don't realize about having it set up as a CC that makes it worth going through the extra steps

    Not in my opinion for a PIF CC. Less effort and less potential for confusion.

    Like 3
    • JoeDid
    • Remember: It is To Laugh
    • Purple_rain
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    KaraBoo said:
    On the other hand, if I have it set up as a credit card, now when I go to the budget screen, it says I'm overspent $50. So now I have to move $50 from the CC payment to TBB and put it back into my budget again. 
    I don't understand why the $50 reward doesn't show up on the budget screen as a  negative $50 payment so that when I spend that $50 on groceries, it just zeroes out and I don't have to juggle things around on the budget screen again. 

    This isn't what happens when your CC is set up as a credit card account. I don't know why you say it shows up as overspent $50. Is the $50 budgeted in your groceries category before you enter the transaction? It should be.

     My rewards show up in my checking account as credits; I enter them as Income; To Be Budgeted, and then allocate them to whichever category I want.

    Spending $50 on groceries (or whatever) either from any CC or my checking account has no bearing on what I've just done with my rewards/income/TBB. As long as my groceries category is fully funded (it always is) that $50 I pay out does exactly what it's supposed to do: deducts $50 from my grocery category and adds that $50 to my credit card payment/available amount. The rewards have nothing to do with that.

    I hope that makes sense.

    Like
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      JoeDid Thanks for your response. You'd have to watch my AMEX CC screencast above to see what I'm running into in my testing and why I was so confused. 

      Like
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo Thanks for pointing me to that screencast; I had missed it. I see where it is a problem, and it looks like a bug related to transactions not sorting according to entry order. That problem has been brought up before, and maybe there have even been feature requests to have the time stamp on transactions figure into the sort order.

      I experience the same when income and outflows -- not even related to rewards -- appear on the same date: Often it results in a false overdraft and it's annoying as hell. The "solution" to false-date the income to appear a day earlier than the outflow is poor poor poor, as it doesn't reflect reality.

      Like 1
  • We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.      T. S. Eliot

    Wow!  That was a lot of discussion on chequing account versus credit card account methodology.  You can see, KaraBoo   , why I chose to go with the chequing-account methodology.  I kept running into weird stuff that no one could adequately explain to me. It didn't help when some insisted I must be doing something wrong. It wasn't always me; sometimes it was the software.

    Like 3
      • KaraBoo
      • A goal without a plan is just a wish
      • KaraBoo
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      HappyDance Yes, this whole experience has definitely reinforced my decision to set up my CC as a checking account. If I run through the same exact scenario where my CC is set up as a checking account, it works correctly regardless of the date of the inflow/outflow. I don't end up with my budget falsely showing that I've overspent, and I don't have to do any messing around with back dating entries either. 

      Like 2
      • HappyDance
      • YNABing consistently since 2014
      • HappyDance
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      KaraBoo 

      There is a limitation in setting it up as a chequing account:  you can't easily carry debt (something credit cards are designed to let you do and that the YNAB cc methodology would accommodate).

      If I overspend, regardless of whether it's cash or credit card, the category goes red.  If I don't address it by moving funds from another category, the overspent amount is subtracted from TBB in the next month, resulting in less to budget next month.  Personally, I see this as a plus.

      Like 3
      • WordTenor
      • Can we agree that goals are dumb and immature? Sure.
      • WordTenor
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      HappyDance As dakinemaui  points out, if you are carry debt, you aren't paid in full. 

      :tongue in cheek comment: 

      Like 2
  • JoeDid said:
    maybe there have even been feature requests to have the time stamp on transactions figure into the sort order

    The better order for same-date transactions is inflows first then outflows from smallest to largest (ignoring any time-stamp). All the banks I've ever dealt with do it this way to minimize the number of overdraft transactions when funds are tight.

    Like
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui I guess that's true for those who import transactions; I don't. I enter everything manually and always enter inflows before outflows.

      Like
    • JoeDid I don't believe it's limited to import users.

      Like
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui I'm not sure what you mean by this. What isn't limited to import users?

      Like
      • nolesrule
      • Stealing From the Future fix is an improvement but is incomplete....
      • nolesrule
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      JoeDid The order in which the internal logic can/should sort transactions.

      Like
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Ah, okay. I'm just saying that since I don't import transactions, I would like them to appear in the order in which I enter them manually. For me and my manual entry, that's the best option, every time, because it reflects my reality.

      Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      JoeDid Yes, and we were saying that an order of Inflow then Outflow ascending amounts is the best criterion, which is exactly what you use. But that order of entry is not what others use, and they would benefit from that order being "forced" on them.

      Looking at it the other way, if YNAB used entry order, users other than yourself would likely run into trouble, because they wouldn't necessarily know to enter Inflows first then Outflow ascending.

      Like 1
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