Future Transactions

So I am testing out YNAB for the first time. I have been using ms money for over 21years now. I found YNAB to be the closest to how I am doing my budget. So far I am liking what I am seeing except for one aspect. Future Transactions...

I do our budget for the next month before that month begins. As soon as I get my last check for the month, I plan the next month. This means that I pay all of my bills at the beginning of the month for the entire month. What I don't like is how YNAB views those bills. They fall into the scheduled transactions as opposed to "this just happened". I could just date those bills for today but according to YNAB's website, they only auto match up to 10 days. Some of my bills are at the end of the month so those probably won't auto match when the bill comes in.

I also don't like how the amount spent is not already removed from the budget line item. The transaction will go "through" in X days but the funds should be viewed as "gone" now.  When I look at the entire budget, I want to see where that category is at "now" as it pertains to that month. I should not have to go into the inspector page to see what it would be after future transactions are reconciled as it pertains to this month. There is a difference between "Scheduled Repeated Transactions" and "Enter Now/Set Future Date". Once I enter the transaction (aka sever it from the Scheduled Transaction), I would like for it to be accounted for in my budget (regardless of whether it is dated for the future of this month). As long as it is for this month and has been entered in the register, count it against that budget category. 

I do my bills via my bank which mails the check. I date my transactions for the dates when the check is slated to be delivered. Those funds should be viewed as spent already.

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  • There are quite a few people that agree with your assessment.  It has been discussed at length before and ynab does not agree.  You can submit a feature request but if this is a deal breaker for you,  you probably want to keep looking for another tool. 

    Reply Like 5
  • Welcome,

    Congratulations on your ability to budget.  You have a great handle on how things happen in your finances.

    YNAB handles things differently from how other programs work.  It took me some time to understand how things work in YNAB, and I'm very grateful I took the time to learn.  

    Regarding future scheduled transactions and when they come out of your accounts, it doesn't really matter.  Once you have the money budgeted to the category, it has been given a job and isn't available for other spending.  

    When a spending opportunity occurs, it is either budgeted for, in the appropriate category, or it isn't.  You no longer check your account balance, you now check the category balance only.  If it's budgeted, it's covered. If it isn't budgeted for, things have to change.  You have time to think what you want to do next.  What category do you want to get the money from, what category is less important than the purchase opportunity?  Or, if the spending is optional, do you want to skip the purchase to save for something that is more important to you?  That has been the magic of YNAB, for me.

    If you can, it's highly recommended that you get one month ahead.  Can you fund everything one month ahead initially?  It would give you breathing space to get a handle on how things work in YNAB.

    I'm sure you already have this, since you have been budgeting for so long, and just to make sure, Emergency Funds and true expenses mess a lot of people up when they start.  Do you have these in place?

    It's a matter of your priorities.  What do you want to accomplish?  YNAB is a tool to help you accomplish your goals, and in my opinion it's the best tool around.

    Hope to see you around for a long time to come.

    Reply Like 1
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 6 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      MicroSpice   MsTJ  Its not that the money is in the account, it is that it is still in the category even though it is already committed.  

      Reply Like 3
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      briefcase You still don't understand the issue and I'm not going to try to explain it any further.  If this thread hasn't made it clear, nothing will.

      Reply Like 1
  • Why in particular is this setup giving you a hard time? Is it because it's "out of sight, out of mind" for you, and you don't want to "see" the money in your account? Are you still deciding how much money you have to spend on things based on what's in your checking account rather than what's in your categories? Are you budgeting to zero like YNAB recommends?

    I ask because it would be helpful to get where you're coming from before a helpful response can be given (at least a helpful one from me).

    Reply Like
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      MicroSpice 

      This is not giving me a hard time. To me, it is not a matter of hard times but rather it is inconsistent to the principles of YNAB. My categories are allocated funds. I have chosen to spend those funds but the funds will be removed from my account within this month but future from where I am at this point in the month. Note the emphasis on "this month". Those dollars have been given a job already for this month. From the budget view, I want to see what else is left over in that category. I should not have to inspect every budget category to see what will happen once that transaction clears my bank. 

      Isn't this like faulting those who can pay their bills in advance? Isn't this the point of YNAB? I can pay my bills 30 days in advance. There is no reason why I should not put the true date the money is delivered for that transaction. I see no reason why my budget should not reflect the true state of my categories. To define true state, it is not what the balance is now but rather what funds in that category are not earmarked for transactions.

      What exactly am I missing? Thanks in advance.

      Reply Like 1
  • MsTJ

    Yes, so far I am fully following how YNAB works. For my budget I actually have 82 categories (Hopefully that is not a fault lol). My budget factors every aspect of my life including Printer Ink, Haircuts, Vacations, Prop Tax, etc. Some funds are only allocated $2.08 a month. My budget is one month in advance and (if I am understanding how YNAB's math works) my sinking funds are 12 months old. Also, yes, I have an emergency fund. Dave Ramsey would shoot me if I didn't. 

    MsTJ said:
    Regarding future scheduled transactions and when they come out of your accounts, it doesn't really matter.  Once you have the money budgeted to the category, it has been given a job and isn't available for other spending.  

     I agree with your assessment but your statement is not true to how YNAB handles transactions. In my mind, to be true to that statement, I give a dollar a name. I then use those funds to buy something. So I write a check which will be delivered 15 days from now. Those funds are gone and should not be available for other spending. I record this transaction in YNAB. I then go to budget to look at the month and see two things which violate your statement above. 1. The funds are not shown as spent in the activity category. 2. The funds are not shown as spent in the available category. 

    Reply Like 1
      • MsTJ
      • Gray_Nomad_f6eeb59e1a1c
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      MS Money Guru 

      How many categories you have isn't a deal breaker.  I also have too many, and have everything I can think of scheduled and funded, today I have 164 categories, some aren't due for several years, think drivers license and passport, and only get a few cents every month, and they will be funded when due.  Set a goal, automatically fund monthly, and forget.

      Regarding scheduled transactions, I would recommend seeing how things work out.  For me, they are non events.  They are scheduled and funded, and occur when they should.  All I do is approve them when they actually go through.  

      Yes, it can be frustrating when getting started with YNAB.  It handles things different than how I thought they should be handled.  I would highly recommend living with the program for a while, and see if it helps you reach your goals sooner.  It has helped me.

      Reply Like
  • Once I got used to it I found a way to make this work. 

    I have my bill categories set up so that each one has enough for it's own bill I have the bills on a scheduled transaction & fund enough to cover the "upcoming" at the beginning of the month. None of those categories are ones I would ever WAM from because I know that all the funds are needed. Sometimes I move them all into one category group to I can usually not look at it, but I have it organized differently right now & just know which ones are those categories.

    Reply Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      adriana01  This is primarily the way i've dealt with this limitation . unfortunately it means that some items that really should/could be the same category have to be separated.  Means more categories and less accuratel reporting

      Reply Like
      • Tobias
      • Toviathan
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      adriana01 MS Money Guru I Second this approach. None of my categories that have scheduled transactions tied to them would ever have regular spending, and would never be candidates for WAMing if the need arose. So in that sense I have never really even seen this as a problem.

      Reply Like
      • ynaber2613
      • ynaber2613
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Tobias Same here, I don't WAM from categories that have scheduled transactions until the end of the month during cleanup.  

      Reply Like
  • Here would be an example (for the sake of full disclosure, this situation could be real but it is not. Hopefully this example will better help explain my point):

    Lets say we have a clothing fund category. Lets say we allocated a monthly amount to this fund of $50 ($600/yr). Now lets also say my wife signs up for one of those clothing services which costs $23 a month. Now we allocate funds for this category at the beginning of the month. In addition to that, I pay for this monthly charge via our bank at the beginning of the month but the transaction doesn't happen until the 27th of every month. As such, I record that transaction with the future date.

    Now when my wife looks at her nice YNAB mobile app (or website) I want the "available" amount to reflect the check/earmarked funds that should be viewed as "gone". It doesn't matter that this transaction is in the future (aka 27th). When she wants to know "hey.. can I go shopping for clothes today? how much do I have in that category", that info should be upfront and in your face without needing the inspector. 

    The same could be true for "fun money" and many more categories. Does this make sense?

    Reply Like 3
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      MS Money Guru  Makes perfect sense.  The solution several are suggesting is you would have a separate category for the clothing subscription.  I find that not to be optimal but it is probably the best solution given the applications limitations.

      Reply Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      MS Money Guru Yeah, that's not a feature of YNAB. I get what you're saying and it makes sense but the inspector is your only option for this at this point. They used to allow future transactions to affect the budget now but that changed with the latest incarnation.

      Reply Like
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 6 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Herman Why can't a feature be added to change the "Available" to reflect the future transactions of this month? I am fine with not accounting for "scheduled transactions" as those are placeholders but once I "Enter Now" and populate the date/amount/etc, that money is GONE lol. 

      In my mind this is like the following conversation:

      • Me: I have a sinking fund to save $600.. I am so excited
      • YNAB: We are so excited for you as well. Great Job.
      • Me: So how much do I currently have for this month?
      • YNAB: Sorry... We can't tell you. You are not there yet.
      • Me: What do you mean? How much do I have now for this month? I am trying to plan.
      • YNAB: See, you are asking about then but we are now. I know you want to know about then but you need to plan for now. We could tell you how you are now factoring then but you need a few extra steps to get there. Factoring then into now is bad.
      • Me: Isn't that the point of planning though?
      • YNAB: Inspector Pane

      It kind of makes me laugh

      Reply Like 3
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      MS Money Guru I have a clothing Master category with categories for Clothing, Professional clothing, New Suit, Goal weight Clothing, and category that holds the money on a clothing store gift card. It may not be "optimal" for reporting, but it does mean I have the info I need when I need to make purchasing decisions. Since informing my purchasing decisions is what I use YNAB for, I optimize for that first, and add workarounds for reporting (usually done in Excel because I can build better charts & searches that way) as needed.

      Reply Like 1
      • Blue Filly
      • YNAB
      • Blue_Filly.2
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney If money is not spent but future dated to be spent, Set up a new category for this subscription and name it " Clothing subscription - 27th"  Put $23 to this category each month and put $27 to your clothing fund category.   You still budgeted $50 to clothing monthly but now your wife is aware that $23 will go to the subscription. Problem solved! 

      What you are asking just complicates matters.

      Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 6 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Blue Filly while this is certainly a solution it contributes to category bloat and is a reporting issue. One must wonder how complicated it must be when it was available in the previous versions of YNAB. And if complicated is the bar, then they should not have direct connect because that's the complicated thing that is constantly breaking down, but how many people would refuse to use YNAB if it didn't exist?

      Reply Like 4
      • Blue Filly
      • YNAB
      • Blue_Filly.2
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      jenmas  I don't think it contributes to category bloat. You just have to be wise about categories and how you use them. If you create categories with optimum usefulness and place them in well-arranged groups, your reports are gonna look pretty good. You just need to spend time and try different techniques to find the best result.  Also, keep in mind that the reporting function is pretty basic in YNAB. I can even say that there is no proper reporting in YNAB.  There is no way that a lack of this feature would cause a reporting issue. 

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • 11
      • Reported - view

      Blue Filly I know jenmas can hold her own, but I have to stop you right here.

      Your solution is having 2 categories for clothing. You're looking at one case in isolation from the overall budget.  Now let's start making things more complicated with differing purchase subscription dates and recurrences with multiple categories. The solution doesn't scale well and is the definition of category bloat.

      Let's look at areas where you might have multiple subscriptions, differing recurring dates, plus regular everyday spending. Like for example Amazon Subscribe and Save for grocery items. Some things are monthly, some things are multiples of months. And we're still going to the grocery store. meanwhile, I want to limit my grocery spending to $550/month including the grocery subscriptions from Amazon. That requires extra math to make it work on the budget screen if I have to split it into separate categories.

      Furthermore, using category groups to keep them together just creates category group bloat, and it doesn't actually take care of the math for you.

      Or, with future dated transaction, I could just enter my Subscribe and Save recurring transactions for the month in the register, and immediately my $550 drops to the actual amount I have remaining for the month. Boom. Done. Easy.

      Reply Like 11
      • Blue Filly
      • YNAB
      • Blue_Filly.2
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule How many subscriptions do you have? How many subscriptions can you possibly have? If you scale up the complexity of your personal finance high enough, even Microsoft Dynamics Navision will not be able to cope with it. I have at least 8 different subscriptions and paying 7 different bills every month. You can increase these numbers to 15 and 14. YNAB can still handle it very well. It is a monthly subscription anyway, Most of these subscription categories will be visited once a month.  As I said before, If you create categories with optimum usefulness and place them in well-arranged groups, your reports are gonna look pretty good.  I do not understand why it is such a  big deal.

       

      Listen to this story, 

      I'm an accountant and we have been using Sage 3X for our business. This finance software cost 700k to implement 5 years ago. It was working just fine a couple of years ago. But now, We are having so many issues because our business has grown and Sage 3X cannot handle our accounts.  So, we are upgrading to Microsoft Dynamics in 6 months. You see, if you think YNAB is not giving you what you need, either find something else or find a way around it. I believe, as an accountant, YNAB is advanced enough to handle one's personal finance with ease. 

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Blue Filly Just looking at my Amazon Subscribe & Save recurring transactions, 14. 3 different categories (Grocery, Home Maintenance, Medical OTC). Recurrences range from monthly to every 6 months. I also have others i haven't gotten around to entering yet, so when I do, maybe 17-20.

      And that doesn't include the other one off subscription vendors.

      Mrs. nolesrule gets a Sephora subscription box that comes out of her spending money category. I'd rather not have to manually delta that one either.

      In total, I'm not really sure how many subscriptions I have that are mixed into categories with regular spending, but it's a lot.

      Blue Filly said:
      You see, if you think YNAB is not giving you what you need, either find something else or find a way around it.

       YNAB4 works just fine. It's what I use. I still use it because it's better. Hands down. I've been  using it for 5 years. From a fundamental philosophical point of view it's the best budgeting software out there.

      But I'll fight the good fight on behalf of the people who are using the new version since they don't sell YNAB4 anymore.

      And perhaps some day if they actually fix these problems I might even consider migrating.

      Reply Like 6
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Follow-up. I have 17 recurring transactions in YNAB that are in categories that are a mix of subscriptions and regular spending.

      And one additional reason I don't want to mix them. If I decide to skip it that month, I don't have to do anything  other than skip the transaction to keep my budget amounts accurate.

      We get single serve milks for kids lunches. One kid likes chocolate, the other likes strawberry (but will also drink chocolate). The chocolate only comes in 12 packs. We typically have 2 on order. The strawberry comes in 18 packs. So every once in awhile, we accumulate more than we need in one of them and skip a month. All I do is delete my transaction when I skip the month, and my Groceries has the correct amount of money in it. No need to go to the budget screen and move money around.

      Reply Like
      • Blue Filly
      • YNAB
      • Blue_Filly.2
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Even though  I don't agree with you, I believe these kind of discussions are healthy. I'm glad YNAB4 works for you. But I wouldn't go back to YNAB4. New YNAB is way more advanced and can handle pretty much everything I think of. 

       

      My suggestion to you is that you should start a brand new budget. Create a category group for monthly subscriptions. You can either have different categories or one category for all subscription. You have to separate them from your variable expenses. Trust me it works way better than YNAB4. You just need to give it a chance. As a rule of thumb, always separate fixed expenses from variable expenses. This is even a general accounting principle for accountants. They have to be treated separately as their nature is completely different. 

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view
      Blue Filly said:
      As a rule of thumb, always separate fixed expenses from variable expenses. This is even a general accounting principle for accountants. They have to be treated separately as their nature is completely different. 

       YNAB isn't accounting. It's budgeting. It's a spending plan.

      I want my total spent on groceries to be $550/month. The subscriptions are just an alternate way of acquiring some of the groceries. Some of the subscriptions are bulk, which means I don't need them every month. But if I went to the grocery store then I would. I can easily switch back and forth because they are a single category.

      Additionally, sometimes I change the frequency of the subscription, because I either have too much or not enough (quantities don't always perfectly align with monthly consumption). But it's still groceries.

      Finally, as pointed out, not all of my subscriptions are Groceries. They fall into a plethora of categories. in which the category amount is determined based on historical average spending.

      What you outlined still doesn't actually address the reality of the situation.

       

      Blue Filly said:
      New YNAB is way more advanced and can handle pretty much everything I think of. 

       It can't handle cashflow management of accounts.
      It obfuscates credit card debt.
      It obfuscates Stealing From the Future.

      It can't handle future dated transactions.

      It can't manage reimbursements.

       

      But at least it can direct import transactions if your bank is supported... when it actually works.

      Reply Like 6
      • Blue Filly
      • YNAB
      • Blue_Filly.2
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Blue Filly That is f'n hilarious. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Crawl back into your hole.

      Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 6 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Blue Filly YNAB has specifically acknowledged that it doesn't handle Stealing From the Future. I think it is ridiculous that they were notified of the issue in 2015 and still haven't rolled out a solution, but they are in fact testing solutions. Jesse has publicly stated that they are working on a way to manage reimbursements. It literally can't handle future transactions because you can't do them in the software and are forced to put them in the scheduler. So no, YNAB doesn't handle it all. And nolesrule might not be a current subscriber, but he has indeed used the software.

      Reply Like 4
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 6 mths ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Blue Filly I've used the web version of YNAB since it was released, and used YNAB4 before that. I've experienced most of the problems that you are dismissing in YNAB. I continue to use it because I learned from experienced users like nolesrule  how to avoid or at least detect the problem. I'm glad you evidently haven't experienced these problems (which have been around since the beginning of this version and some of which have been acknowledged as issues) yet, but if you do the best advice you will get will either be directly from these experienced users or users who learned from them.

      Reply Like 5
      • Blue Filly
      • YNAB
      • Blue_Filly.2
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule You have to chill out, scroll up and read the solution I wrote.

       

      Our discussion has nothing to do with stealing from future or reimbursement or any other things you mentioned. You are talking about these issues because I found a solution to your original issue. Now you have to come up with another problem in YNAB to prove your argument all along which is new YNAB does not work! YNAB does work! it absolutely works better if you give it a chance. As I said 5 times already. Stop comparing YNAB with SAP!  YNAB is a budgeting software ! 

      Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 6 mths ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Blue Filly it's not like you invented having single purpose categories. Throughout the thread it's been discussed before you started commenting as most likely the most viable alternative. And, as is perfectly reasonable, some people are commenting that they find this solution a mediocre stop gap at best and wish for something better.

      Reply Like 5
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Blue Filly I did read your solution. It's not flexible for use cases of varying frequencies and skipping occasional deliveries without additional budget rearrangement.

      If the answer to every missing feature is to use a complex series of workarounds, then perhaps it's time to finally introduce the features the people are asking for so they no longer have to work around the missing functionality.

      This reminds me of the discussions from back when YNAB was introduced. The marketing materials were all about reducing the tedium and reducing the need to do math. But all of these "solutions" are the opposite. I can go dig up my posts in the old forum from November 2015 (soft launch) through about February 2016, when we were having these exact same discussions.

      Reply Like 3
  • I budget the same as you as in budgeting next month as soon as my last paycheck of this month comes in. The current incarnation of YNAB doesn't allow you to enter future transactions that affect the budget now. But if I'm reading you right, your biggest concern is cash flow. I deal with this by using the 3rd party toolkit to enable a running balance and this along with scheduled transactions allows me to see my future cash flow in my accounts.

    Reply Like 1
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone What is the 3rd party toolkit you are using?

      Reply Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      MS Money Guru Search Chrome or Firefox extensions for "Toolkit for YNAB," and you'll find it.  Only works in the browser, not on the phone apps.

      Reply Like 2
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney From what I can tell, it's some of the developers and others freelancing to make YNAB better, and it is free. I don't know why every feature of the toolkit isn't standard, but I've just been here 4 months. 

      Reply Like
  • And here I thought I had been the MS Money relic. Took me about 6 months to stop using it after I started using YNAB4 about 5 years ago. based on a the timeline you started using MS Money 98 around when I did.

    I do agree with OP on the shortcomings. This has been discussed by users off and on for about 3 years now. Future-dated transactions is one of the reasons I still have not transitioned to the new version of YNAB. As I don't use the current version, I have nothing else to add to this discussion in terms of the best way to deal with it..

    Reply Like 1
  • nolesrule Yeah, I heard/read about new/legacy YNAB conversation. For me, to switch to legacy YNAB defeats the purpose of this transition from MS Money. :(  

    All of this started when I decided to build a new computer. I read an article that stated that MSMoney didn't run on Windows 10. I decided to find an alternative solution for my budgeting needs. I spend 1 week to find a solution. Then I spent a couple weeks watching tons of YNAB videos,  migrating my entire MSMoney budget to google worksheets which were YNAB-able (and calculating how much each category needed to start with),and then I opened an account and migrated my google worksheet.

    Now, I am currently running MSMoney and YNAB side-by-side for the trial to see how it goes.

    Did you notice that last part???? Yeah. MSMoney runs on Windows 10 just fine... ain't that a kicker.... lol.. Either way, I need to find something more current so I am continuing down this road. 

    Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      MS Money Guru 

      MS Money Guru said:
      Did you notice that last part???? Yeah. MSMoney runs on Windows 10 just fine... ain't that a kicker.... lol.. Either way, I need to find something more current so I am continuing down this road. 

       Yeah, I still have it installed on my Windows 10 computer. Every once in awhile I load it up to dig up some very old transaction data.

      Only reason I stopped using it was the double data entry.  I found the data in YNAB to be more useful. What new YNAB needs is reporting that emulates the future cashflow module from MS Money, and of course a way to deal with it on the budget page that doesn't require use of the inspector.

      Reply Like
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule did you ever run into a problem installing it? The article I read stated that it was an incompatibility between MSMoney and Internet Explorer. But when I went to install MSMoney, I encountered no such hiccup. 

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      MS Money Guru I don't recall any issues. I've been on Windows 10 for awhile now.

      Reply Like
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney Have you looked at Tiller? That was my close second to YNAB, but no community at Tiller, what a shame. 

      Reply Like
  • MsTJ said:
    today I have 164 categories

     I feel like a goal that I never knew I wanted has just presented itself to me. :) 

    Reply Like 3
  • MS Money Guru

    I hear you.  I feel exactly the same way about future committed transactions.  I want outflows to show as gone from the account, and gone from the budget category.  This information should be clearly reflected on the budget page, where I'm looking when I'm making spending decisions.

    And YNAB kept coming back and telling me to click somewhere else to see that, one category at a time.  Or would it meet my needs if they put in a warning that I screwed up if I spent too much?  No, I want information to *prevent* a problem.  I don't need a warning after the problem is already created.

    I went round and round quite a while,  with YNAB totally failing to acknowledge or understand the concerns you have expressed very well.  The YNAB position was, recognizing future transactions gets people in trouble.  Scratch the surface, and they're concerned that some budgeters will recognize future inflows, budget money they don't have, and get in trouble.

    Effectively, we are being told that because some people cut themselves with a steak knife, we are expected to use a butter knife on our steaks.

    Where I landed:  I have the third party Toolkit, which works with Chrome and Firefox.  It has a feature that allows me to display the amount of upcoming scheduled transactions (which mostly should be future committed transactions, same as you use) on the budget page, in small print next to the Activity column.  Here's a sample of what it looks like:

    That is not as good as what we both want, but it just has to be good enough for the category balance.  In the account register, Toolkit lets me have a running balance (which ought to have been part of the YNAB base package forever, but don't get me started on that rant).  The running balance extends into the future with scheduled transactions, and would be exactly what I needed if I only had future committed transactions.  When I have both future committed transactions and real scheduled transactions (which are typically inflows), I have a bit more work to do to see the conservative account balance I want to see.

    YNAB's stubborn insistence on failing to understand the concerns you raise is quite frustrating, but once I realized that YNAB is designed first and foremost for people living on the edge and in danger of overdraft, I can understand it.  I just don't like how biased the program is toward living on the edge, and how little there is to support things that are useful for people who get ahead of that situation.

    . . . and before you ask, no, the Toolkit doesn't exist for the iOS or Android app.  It only mitigates the issue in browser.  That's not such a big deal for me, since I'm the only person using my budget.  I can see where this would be an issue for a budget used by 2 people, both of whom need to see status on the phone app when making spending decisions.

    Reply Like 1
      • Lego
      • lego
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Patzer Thanks! I had missed the release of that toolkit feature. I just enabled it, and I think that will be helpful for a few categories.

      Reply Like
  • Patzer said:
    Scratch the surface, and they're concerned that some budgeters will recognize future inflows, budget money they don't have, and get in trouble. ... YNAB's stubborn insistence on failing to understand the concerns you raise is quite frustrating, but once I realized that YNAB is designed first and foremost for people living on the edge and in danger of overdraft, I can understand it.

     To me this is a very solvable problem. Keep future inflows in the scheduled transaction but allow outflows to show up. It doesn't seem right to "block" those transactions especially when they are using funds that I have already allocated.

    I will need to look into this toolkit. Very interesting.

    The fact that this has been created leads me to believe there needs to be an "easy mode" and "advance mode".

    Reply Like 4
  • MsTJ said:
    today I have 164 categories, some aren't due for several years, think drivers license and passport, and only get a few cents every month, and they will be funded when due.  Set a goal, automatically fund monthly, and forget. ... Regarding scheduled transactions, I would recommend seeing how things work out.  For me, they are non events.  They are scheduled and funded, and occur when they should.  All I do is approve them when they actually go through.  

     I think this aspect of interactions changes depending on how it is used. For instance, when saving for a one time expense (even if that expense happens every year or every couple of years) seems different than savings in an ongoing bucket that is pulled from regularly.

    For instance saving for:

    • Costco Membership
    • Drivers License Renewal
    • XMas Dinner
    • Amazon Prime

    Is interacted with differently than saving for:

    • Clothing (Each member of the family)
    • Fun Money (Each member of the family)
    • Groceries (Unless cash based)
    • Entertainment (Unless cash based)

    When it is a onetime event, it is much easier since you "dip into that jar" basically once and know you are good. Other categories which you dip into multiple times within a month typically are conducive to closer monitoring to ensure you are on target and within budget. This is especially true when you have three entities dipping into these buckets (bills, husband, and wife). One could argue to migrate to cash based. We actually are doing that for groceries and entertainment since rarely do we carry over those funds. When it comes to other categories which hit us in waves, we keep those within our savings until needed. During those waves, it is nicer to have a more accurate picture.

    What confuses me is that YNAB does have this info and does display this info. Why not go an extra step and bring that info one layer higher? With a single toggle, replace the Available with what it will be after all transactions reconcile (aka the data shown within the inspector pane). Thanks in advance.

    Reply Like 2
  • Guess I complicate things to make them easier for me to understand.  According to YNAB, I have too many categories and category groups, too much of everything.  And, as Patzer says above, I'm the only one using my budget, so you might have to make adjustments for more people using it.  

    Using your earlier example for things like the clothing box that isn't billed until the 27th leaving your clothing category inaccurate for most of the month, I would move the clothing box down to a monthly bill and adjust the monthly clothing category amount accordingly.  That would leave your clothing budget accurate.  I have a separate category group for my monthly living expenses.  This is where I check to see if I have money budgeted for that new piece of clothing that catches my eye, or something on sale at the grocery store, new toy for my pets, you get the idea. 

    For most category groups, like annual and monthly expenses, true and long term goals. I simply select the entire group and fund them when the money comes in (I'm on a very variable income).

    My categories, and what they include, is still an ever evolving work in progress in my budget.  Then, I adjust again come tax time to get them in the order that helps me the most.  

    All this to say, find what works for you.  If that includes more categories and category groups, it's okay with me.  If more categories help me better budget, I don't hesitate to add them.

    It looks like you are working through things.  Hoping you find what works for you.

    Reply Like 2
  • I m still old school. I put spending in when it happens. For instance I for the clothing cat. I put it in on the first even though the actual posting wont be billed until the 27th. I then have to manually match them when it does come through. this way when my wife is out and looks at the clothing category she knows she has $x.xx. This is just a roll over from writing checks.

    Reply Like 2
  • It would be better if they were able to match transactions within 30 days instead of 10. I feel alot of these problems could be solved with "put todays date and it will still resolve. Date will update as soon as it matches"

    Reply Like 1
  • I manually enter all my transactions for the month. I do the same as kevman479 I enter my translations into YNAB on the day I start the process and then change the date when it processes. I didn’t like not having the money come out when I knew it was gone. 

    Reply Like 1
  • I really hope ynab reads this thread as i feel there are strong arguments for having this feature.

    Reply Like 3
      • MsTJ
      • Gray_Nomad_f6eeb59e1a1c
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney Does this mean you are staying?  👋😀

      Reply Like
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney Alternatively, the worthy competition could be reading and know what features are deal breakers. 

      Reply Like
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney If you stay or go, I highly recommend reading the following books (all short): The One Page Financial Plan; The YNAB book; The Behavior Gap. I feel everything can gain some insight from those. Also, of you're mid career-ish, Halftime is really good to get you thinking. 

      Reply Like
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      MsTJ I wouldn't bail after only 14 days. I will give it my entire trial period at least.

      Reply Like 1
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Ben Khaki Storm I will look into. Thanks!

      Reply Like 1
    • Hi RIP_MSMoney !

      We are pretty active in the forum, but the best way to let our development team know what you'd like to see is by submitting a Feature Request. That form goes directly to them for further consideration. :)

      I hope we're able to win you over before the end of your trial. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

      Reply Like 1
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 6 mths ago
      • 19
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

      We went round and round over this some time ago.  Bottom line is, future dated transactions are important for conservative budgeters and YNAB doesn't care.  YNAB believes they are dangerous to newbies, and that's all that matters.  Better features for people who are successful are suggestions that go into a black hole, never to be seen again.

      Or so I infer from YNAB's actions and program functions.  It's okay; if I know that much, I should be able to work around the stuff that's designed to prevent broke people from getting overdrafts, right?

      But really . . . when people who have never used any version of YNAB at all come in and tell you a feature  is important, and that's a feature that was forcibly disabled, compared to prior versions of YNAB, and the long term users complained loudly about its absence, perhaps YNAB should be re-thinking its program functions.

      Future committed transactions are fundamentally different from scheduled transactions.  They should be part of the package, and should have been since Day One.

      Reply Like 19
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Patzer I agree 1000% with 100% of this post.

      Reply Like 2
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 6 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Patzer And  I should add that the workaround I've fabricated: entering now, and purple-flagging future-dated Txs, with the real date in the memo field (as, e.g., "APR 27") allowing me to filter on purple flags, run down the memo fields and update the dates to the real date once it's passed, is so much more work than I like doing, but since YNAB ignores the request for FDTs over and over, I have no choice.

      Reply Like 3
    • Patzer I appreciate you putting up with my prodding! I know we've discussed quite a number of features on several occasions, but I ask because we do care! If there's a middle ground or a topic where we truly need to bend, I want to find it, exhaust it and properly communicate it - like with Stealing From The Future (which we're still working on). 

      Reply Like
  • Faness said:
    We are pretty active in the forum, but the best way to let our development team know what you'd like to see is by submitting a Feature Request. That form goes directly to them for further consideration. :)

    @Faness, pleasure to meet you. Thanks for reaching out. While I think a Feature Request is a great idea I am concerned that it will have little to no affect on the outcome of this topic. With that said, I would love to find this to be untrue. 

    Since posting I have read several threads which seem to have already discussed this issue in detail. It doesn't seem (to me) that any movement has been made on this topic with YNAB. It feels that, and please correct me if I am wrong with this topic, your vocal customer base has not been listened too up to this point. 

    How do we as a YNAB community come together on this topic? From what I understand, this is not a feature that has never existed, but rather, this is a feature that was removed and is being requested to come back.

    I fully understand the concerns of:

    • don't depend on future income until it is received
    • don't spend future income until it is received

    None of that applies to spending income (aka outflow) you already have within a month. If I can pay for a bill at the end of the month with the paycheck that is received at the beginning of the month then I should be able to do so and see it reflected in my budget. Isn't that the aspect of your "Age your money"? When I schedule that payment with my bank on the 1st, record that payment with YNAB, I would like to see it within my budget without needing the inspector pane.

    To define my terms:

    • Scheduled Transaction: Things I have setup to be reminded of for upcoming bills
    • Entered Scheduled Transaction: A scheduled transaction that user has "Entered Now" and updated with bill information. This is now severed from the Scheduled Transaction.

    Could I suggest the following as a middle ground for updating "Available" to reflect "Entered Scheduled Transactions" that are outflow:

    • Allow this feature to be enabled if customers Age of Money is more than 30 days.
    • Auto update the "Available" to reflect if the fund has met its monthly contribution goal.
    • Allow this feature but put a disclaimer on it.

    Currently the category turns yellow as soon as you have overspent (taking future transactions into account). This is half way to what we want. The problem is that this approach is "reactionary". The YNAB goal is to _not_ spend funds you don't have. From the budget view, prior to the purchase being made, there needs to be a way to know how much is left in that category. Visiting each category individually is very limiting.   

    Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

    Reply Like 6
    • RIP_MSMoney Thank you for being so thorough here! It's a great help to know exactly how a feature would be used and what issues it would solve in your budget. 

      Currently, scheduled transactions show in the inspector and don't update the Available amount because those funds are still in your account, for the time being. What happens between the current date and the date the transaction is scheduled to take place can change whether the category is underfunded or not. Essentially, we don't want to penalize you before that spending takes place, but I understand what you mean by that amount not reflecting the month you have planned. We try to avoid toggle features where we can, for a number of reasons, which is a part of why some of the YNAB 4 features weren't carried over.

      YNAB currently behaves this way by design - this feature hasn't existed in the web version of YNAB and currently isn't on our roadmap for the future. If we changed how Scheduled Transactions affected the budget, the total of your Available amounts would no longer match your account balances as a definite - it would depend on how Scheduled Transactions are affecting your account registers and would bring cleared and uncleared transactions into question as well. We don't want YNABers to feel we aren't listening (we are!), but we don't take making changes lightly and this would be a huge adjustment.

      While entering a feature request doesn't guarantee change, it brings the issues before our development team for further consideration. It's unlikely we'll change how the Available amount is calculated, but putting the issue on our development team's radar makes it a possibility. Even if the calculation itself isn't changed, it could spark an alternative.

      Reply Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Faness I don’t think RIP_MSMoney was asking to change the behavior of Scheduled Transactions but was asking for the feature previous YNABs had where you could enter a Scheduled Transaction now (or never even make it a Scheduled Transaction in the first place). It would then no longer be a scheduled transaction and it would affect your budget. I never used this feature  in previous iterations but I see how it could be informative to one’s budget. 

      Reply Like 1
    • Superbone Thank you for clarifying! I was imagining something along the lines of being able to clear a future dated transaction - so that it's still dated for the future but affecting the budget now. Is that more on track? The Enter Now option currently available changes the date, but that's the issue here, correct?

      Reply Like 1
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness What I currently did for the beginning of this month:

      • Selected all of my bills and "Enter Now".
      • I then went to each bill and updated them to the amount I really owed (as I recorded the transaction with my bank) and updated the date it would be delivered.

      What I observed is that the transaction went back to gray and my budget didn't reflect the fact that I had spent money.

      Should I have done this process differently? Before the beginning of each month I (which is fully funded):

      1. Gather all my bills
      2. For Each Bill - Schedule a payment with my bank for that bill for that due date
      3. For Each Bill - Record that payment with YNAB/MSMoney for the correct amount for the same date
      4. Go look at my budget view to see how this month is looking to see if any further adjustments need to be made
      5. Monitor for the rest of the month

      With MSMoney, you would double click on the Scheduled Transaction to open a window to enter that bill. You would update the information for the bill and hit record. Scheduled Transaction would then update to the next time that bill was due and the entered transaction would affect the "Available" as money has been spent. 

      Reply Like
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 6 mths ago
      • 10
      • Reported - view

      Faness This is why I find the decision confusing: YNAB recommends entering transactions manually because sometimes we know about transactions the bank doesn't yet have, but YNAB does not allow entering future dated expense transactions that affect the budget because the bank doesn't have them yet but we do.

      Reply Like 10
      • RIP_MSMoney
      • FinTech Programmer
      • rip_ms_money
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness What would be really neat would be the ability to allow Multi-Select with a menu item of "Edit/Enter Now". This would/could popup a window where I can adjust the date/amount and enter to record.

      Use Case would be:

      • You are one month ahead... Fully Funded
      • You sit down to pay your bills
      • You open your bank website on one window
      • You open YNAB in another window
      • You have your bills in front of you
      • You first verify that the bills YNAB says you need to pay matches the bills you received (important lol)
      • You multi-select all your bills, click the menu, and click "Edit and Enter Now"
      • The screen grays and a modal dialog popups (HTML5 equiv) where I go bill by bill entering the amount and date to be paid (or something along those lines). At the same time I schedule this payment with my bank.
      • I can then go to my budget and review how my month looks
      • BAM. Budget is done
      Reply Like
  • If you REALLY want future dated transactions committed to the register, there is a method that will accomplish what you want.  Most will not want to do it and if you decide to try it, proceed at your own risk.  I've used it many times, it has always worked flawlessly but I haven't tried in a while. 

     

    Let's say you want to commit all scheduled transactions for April to the register now.  Change your computer date to April 30.  Review and approve each scheduled transaction that is now waiting to be entered in the register.  They will now update your account and category balances. 

    Make any adjustments to these transactions you need to then change the computer date back to current day.  If there are any transactions you don't want in the register and you would like them to go back to scheduled, just edit them and save and they will go back to being scheduled.   

    Those you do not edit will stay committed unless you edit them before the date of the transaction arrives.    

    ETA: just tried it and it still works flawlessly.

    Reply Like 2
  • Herman Interesting approach to the problem. Sure hope YNAB takes a quick review of the thread to re-evaluate their position on this topic.

    Reply Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney  I don't expect they will.  Many have tried to explain this to them since the web version was in testing.  They've remained pretty steadfast in their stance.

      Reply Like
  • Well, I have had no movement on this topic. :( I have submitted a "Feature Request". I basically recapped the major aspects I pointed out here on this forum.

    You did say detailed....

    So I am testing out YNAB for the first time. I have been using ms money for over 21years now. I found YNAB to be the closest to how I am doing my budget. So far I am liking what I am seeing except for one aspect. Future Transactions...

    I do our budget for the next month before that month begins. As soon as I get my last check for the month, I plan the next month. This means that I pay all of my bills at the beginning of the month for the entire month (with that paycheck). What I don't like is how YNAB views those bills. They fall into the scheduled transactions as opposed to "this just happened". I could just date those bills for today but according to YNAB's website, they only auto match up to 10 days. Some of my bills are at the end of the month so those probably won't auto match when the bill comes in.

    I also don't like how the amount spent is not already removed from the budget category line item. I fully understand the concerns of:
    *Don't depend on future income until it is received
    *Don't spend future income until it is received

    None of that applies to spending income (aka outflow) you already have within a month. If I can pay for a bill at the end of the month with the paycheck that is received at the beginning of the month then I should be able to do so and see it reflected in my budget. Isn't that the aspect of your "Age your money"? When I schedule that payment with my bank on the 1st, record that payment with YNAB, I would like to see it within my budget without needing the inspector pane.

    The transaction will go "through" in X days but the funds should be viewed as "gone" now.  When I look at the entire budget, I want to see where that category is at "now" as it pertains to that month. I should not have to go into the inspector page to see what it would be after future transactions are reconciled as it pertains to this month. There is a difference between "Scheduled Repeated Expense Transactions" and "Enter Expense Now/Set Future Date". Once I enter the transaction (aka sever it from the Scheduled Transaction), I would like for it to be accounted for in my budget (regardless of whether it is dated for the future of this month). As long as it is for this month and has been entered in the register, count it against that budget category. 

    Lets say we have a clothing fund category. Lets say we allocated a monthly amount to this fund of $50 ($600/yr). Now lets also say my wife signs up for one of those clothing services which costs $23 a month. Now we allocate funds for this category at the beginning of the month. In addition to that, I pay for this monthly charge via our bank at the beginning of the month but the transaction doesn't happen until the 27th of every month. As such, I record that transaction with the future date.

    Now when my wife looks at her nice YNAB mobile app (or website) I want the "available" amount to reflect the check/earmarked funds that should be viewed as "gone". It doesn't matter that this transaction is in the future (aka 27th). When she wants to know "hey.. can I go shopping for clothes today? how much do I have in that category", that info should be upfront and in your face without needing the inspector. Splitting this into two categories (one for the bill and one for spurious spending) would be a pain as we don't want to track two different categories for spending in this area. We also have 5 in our family. 

    When saving for a one time expense (even if that expense happens every year or every couple of years) that seems different than savings in an ongoing bucket that is pulled from regularly.

    For instance saving for:
    *Costco Membership
    *Drivers License Renewal
    *XMas Dinner
    *Amazon Prime

    Is interacted with differently than saving for:
    *Clothing (Each member of the family)
    *Fun Money (Each member of the family)
    *Groceries (Unless cash based)
    *Entertainment (Unless cash based)

    When it is a onetime event, it is much easier since you "dip into that jar" basically once and know you are good. Other categories which you dip into multiple times within a month typically are conducive to closer monitoring to ensure you are on target and within budget. This is especially true when you have multiple entities dipping into these buckets (bills, husband, wife, kids). One could argue to migrate to cash based. We actually are doing that for groceries and entertainment since rarely do we carry over those funds. When it comes to other categories which hit us in waves, we keep those within our savings until needed. During those waves, it is nicer to have a more accurate picture.

    I have been informed online that this topic has been an ongoing debate but I hope that is not true or some aspect is being misunderstood. If is has, then I really feel you should revisit your stance. At a minimum provide more grandularity to your stance. Separate outflow from inflow restrictions. I really see no reason why you would not being doing this for expenses already. To factor those "Entered Expense Transactions" now is a more conservative stance.

    Could I suggest the following as a middle ground for updating "Available" to reflect "Entered Scheduled Expense Transactions" that are outflow:
    *Allow this feature to be enabled if customers Age of Money is more than 30 days.
    *Auto update the "Available" to reflect if the fund has met its monthly contribution goal.
    *Allow this feature but put a disclaimer on it.

    Currently the category turns yellow as soon as you have overspent (taking future transactions into account). This is half way to what we want. The problem is that this approach is "reactionary". The YNAB goal is to _not_ spend funds you don't have. From the budget view, prior to the purchase being made, there needs to be a way to know how much is left in that category. To be a pro budgetter, you want a view that gives you a real world picture. From the one screen I want to know "Category X has N dollars. Is that enough? If not, where can I reallocate from to satisfy." Visiting each category individually is very limiting. 

    TLDR:
    --------------
    *Please allow option to update "Available" to reflect "Entered Reconciled Transactions" 
    *Please don't put "Entered Reconciled Transactions" that are future outflow into Scheduled Transactions. I entered it. It is severed from "Scheduled Transaction". The check is mailed. The money should be viewed as GONE. 

    Reply Like 2
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney Can you write post-dated cheques in the US? We don't really use cheques much in the UK any more but we're not meant to use post-dated cheques. They should be dated with the date they are written and so were entered in any bookkeeping system on the date they were written/sent. The massive drop off in cheque use here has certainly made bank reconciliations easier!

      Reply Like
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger we can write the post-dated checks on our actual bank account, but YNAB doesn't allow those transactions to be entered into the register until the date on the transaction, so it doesn't affect category balances until then.

      Reply Like 2
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      adriana01 Makes more sense now.  Post-dated cheques are against the terms and conditions of bank accounts here.

      Reply Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 6 mths ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger Post-dated checques are not the issue.   Here's the issue:

      I get a bill.  It has a due date.  I go online, and schedule payment for the due date, so as to earn interest on the money as long as I can.  I enter the transaction in YNAB, for the due date.

      Because the due date is in the future, my account balance and my category total available think I haven't paid the bill; but I have done everything I need to do, and if I do *nothing* more the bill is paid.  The budget ought to reflect the fact that I have paid this bill.  Yes, I can change my mind; if that happens, I can EDIT the freaking transaction.  Change is the one-off; the transaction occurring exactly as entered is normal.

      To add insult to injury, when the due date rolls around YNAB expects me to approve the transaction.  If it happens to be paying one of my credit cards, YNAB expects me to approve it twice, once in each account.

      This is a bit of busywork, and a lot of obfuscation of information that should be clearly visible on the budget page or in the account register.   I have my workarounds, but still . . . I am offended that YNAB used programming resources to create the value-subtracted feature of forbidding future dated transactions. 

      Reply Like 8
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney 

      We don't have the facility to vote on feature requests.  For what's it's worth, I submitted another feature request, labeled it as vote for yours, and copied/pasted your text into the box.

      Maybe if we all do that it will get some traction . . .

      Nah.  The programmers are far more concerned with Zapier integrations and cute icons to tells us after the fact that we messed up.

      Reply Like 1
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Patzer Yes, sorry I get that. I was replying to the 'The check is mailed' comment without quoting it which is my mistake. My original response to those comments, which I deleted, were correct for the UK but not relevant to any country where post-dating a cheque is a thing. 

      Reply Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 6 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney Your request makes me wonder if YNAB will ever add options to the software to allow it to work differently for different users. They seem to have gone to a more streamlined version of YNAB from what was available in previous versions. For example, running balances used to be an option you could turn on and off.

      I love your idea of allowing more flexible options after a certain milestone to make sure all beginners are using the method correctly.  Of course, what you're asking for doesn't go against the method in any way. The only reason for the way it works now from what I can tell is so that users don't enter income early.

      For your matching 10 day issue, a workaround is that you can manually match. So when your matching transactions appears, you'd have to match them manually.

      Reply Like 4
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      monkeyhanger I haven't post-dated a check for years :) even though theoretically I could. My more usual use case for future-dated transactions in YNAB is scheduled transactions, as Patzer described

      Reply Like 2
    • Superbone You're exactly right - we've shied away from toggle features and different options in the new YNAB. This was for a number of different reasons, but mostly it's because we want to be deliberate with the features we offer - ensuring they work and support the method for all users. It's possible this could change in the future, but we don't currently have any toggle features on our roadmap. :)

      Reply Like
  • monkeyhanger said:
    Makes more sense now.  Post-dated cheques are against the terms and conditions of bank accounts here.

     Yes, sorry for the confusion. Not attempting to promote post-dating checks :)

    Reply Like
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney So if the check is dated with a current date, why wouldn't you record it in your account register with the date on the check?

      Reply Like 1
  • Patzer said:
    We don't have the facility to vote on feature requests

     We do in a way. On one of these threads I asked support, and they said basically each feature submission is a vote. 

    Reply Like
  • monkeyhanger said:
    So if the check is dated with a current date, why wouldn't you record it in your account register with the date on the check?

    I go to my bank website. I tell it "pay this company x amount on n day". I record that transaction in ynab for the date it will be delivered. That is basically it. I am not actually dating or mailing anything. My bank is.

    Reply Like 4
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      RIP_MSMoney Ah so you're not using an actual paper cheque, you're using  a scheduled payment. Then my misunderstanding is probably just a US/UK translation thing.

      Decades ago, as an accountant, I was always taught to enter a cheque payment into the cash account (or cashbook) on the day it was written. Obviously, it could then take several weeks/months to actually clear at the bank and would remain a reconciling item on the bank reconciliation until it did. I understand that checks are still a thing in the US*, so I was struggling to understand why you wouldn't do the same unless it was a post-dated check.

      I totally get everyone's comments about transactions that have been scheduled at the bank. It was just the confusion over cheques/checks that I couldn't understand.
       

      Reply Like
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