Budget Using Only One Month's Income

Having used YNAB 4's "Income for this month" and "Income for next month", I feel like I'm at a loss since moving to nYNAB. 

I get paid on the 15th and 30th so in YNAB 4, I would put both of those paychecks in "Income for next month" then on the 1st, I can use that money to budget everything. Then during the month, if I'm moving money between categories, it was really easy to make sure I'm only spending last month's income by making sure "To Be Budgeted" is zero. If I'm under budget, it'll be positive and if I'm over budget, it'll be negative, all without affecting spending or categories for any other month.

With nYNAB, I find this workflow no longer works. I understand that it's trying to make your money more fluid by removing the monthly walls but I feel like I'm in less control than before.

For example, if I'm budgeting after my mid-month paycheck, "To Be Budgeted" now contains both last month's incoming as well as income which is slated for next month. This means I can't use it as an indicator of whether I'm over or under budget and makes it really easy to use money that's suppose to be for next month. 

In another words, I think of income as buckets. In YNAB 4, each month had its own bucket and that helps your control spending because the software makes it easy to only use a single bucket per month to fill your envelopes. 

In nYNAB, all of the income goes into a single bucket and with that, it makes it hard to only use one month's worth since there's no way to divide it up.

I understand that some people create their own "buffer" category where income goes but I feel like this just adds extra friction and a risk for errors.

192replies Oldest first
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Active threads
  • Popular
  • Hi Wei !

    Welcome to the new YNAB! :)

    Handling income is a little different than it was in YNAB 4. Instead of sending money to a certain month, we want you to move to that month and budget those funds where you need them. If you're already a month ahead, then when you receive your paycheck on the 15th you can move to the next month and start budgeting those funds there. When you receive your check on the 30th, you'd move to the next month and finish the budgeting there.

    As long as you budget to zero, you can still use your To Be Budgeted to monitor changes (more specifically, the Budgeted in Future portion outlined next to it). Once your To Be Budgeted amount is at $0.00, budgeting more towards your current month takes from your future month - you can move forward to check your future months at any time and adjust as needed.

    I hope that helps, but let me know if you still have questions! :)

    Reply Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 23
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB I think you need to spend some time in a multi-adult household with 4-5 paychecks a month before dishing out such poor recommendations. Maybe even try YNAB4 for a year in that scenario (did you ever use YNAB4?). Then tell me if you could go back to budgeting every single individual paycheck every time it's received when there is a better alternative.

      The official YNAB support advice is very poor when it comes to people that are actually ahead (especially since we're going on 2 years and you guys still haven't fixed Stealing from the Future awareness). Many  users of YNAB4 worked hard to get ahead and have the ability to budget income each month in a single pass and find the budgeting process to be more efficient with Income for Next Month, both in mechanics and in the time needed within the household.

      How about you take the request back to the YNAB overlords to re-institute the Income for Next Month functionality... you might even get more YNAB4 holdovers to convert to nYNAB if you added it. There was no legitimate reason for dropping the functionality in the first place. It doesn't conflict with the process.

      Reply Like 23
    • nolesrule Funny you mention multiple paychecks, I bring in the number you mentioned just on my own (big believer of multiple streams of income) and I'm married, so there's my husband's income streams, as well. I did use YNAB 4 and I don't prefer the next month's income option - everyone has their own preferences and I prefer manually adjusting my funds when I receive them rather than sending them to the future to be handled at a later date. I'm sorry you thought my recommendation was poor, but I'm glad YNAB 4 still suits your preferences - it didn't suit mine as well as the new YNAB.

      I'll have to ask the design team if they prefer the term Design Overlords instead (it has my vote!). Either way, I'll let them know you'd like the option, but it's safe to say not everyone feels the same way (myself included). :)

      Reply Like 9
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 21
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB My point was that with a minor tweak to the software it could be done either way. It never had to be one or the other. In the focus to attract new users, they chose to make changes that alienated much of the current active user base.

      I and many others prefer not to have to budget every time income comes in. There's no reason for it.

      And here is where the budget theory comes in that I think people don't realize and the YNAB company was never able to wrap their heads around (and you can read a lot about it in the older forum)... but it's almost as if when developing the new product they decided to intentionally ignore the feedback of the most experienced and helpful users of the software.

       

      The Old Rule 4 (Live on last month's income) and the functionality (Income for Next Month category) realigns your budget from having to match your income cycle to matching your expense cycle. As a result it reduces the pressure on your budgeting process and allows you to open up and see the bigger picture. It completely changes your awareness of the income>budget>spend cycle. Many users have reported that it enabled them to get out of debt faster or save faster than if they were budgeting every single paycheck.

      It allows you to more easily see right away if you will have surplus or deficit in a given month, and make smarter decisions on what to do about it (and without a need for forecasting). This is more difficult when budgeting by paycheck because you're too busy taking care of the trees to see how the forest as a whole is doing, and even if you are ahead, it just creates extra needless work.

      And no one has still addressed Stealing From the Future, which has been a known issue dating back to November 2015 and the pre-release. A resolution was promised in January 2015 and an update in August 2017 said it was coming soon.  The budget deficit when budgeting in future months should be an in-your-face warning... not something you have to look for in future months. This is still, in my opinion, a major flaw in the software that can lead to credit card debt or account overdraft.

       

      By the way, the idea of the fluidity of the TBB between months is almost hypocritical, because there are artificial boundaries introduced in every other element of functionality in the software. Having completely walled months so that the TBB is no longer fluid allows for more stability and pacing in the budgeting process.

      Reply Like 21
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 15
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB Also, Income for Next Month was the one single piece of functionality that set YNAB apart from all the other envelope budgeting systems out there. It's what sold me, and many other users on YNAB. We thought it was genius.

      But apparently we gave YNAB too much credit. What we saw as genius was apparently just a happy accident.

      On the other hand, why are so many users still recommending workarounds to replace the functionality if it wasn't so essential?

      Reply Like 15
      • Wei
      • weizilla
      • 1 yr ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB Thanks for the advice! I created a test budget but I'm still having trouble getting use to the new workflow.

      Example:

      I have income of $500 for 12/15. On 1/1, I budget $100 for Electricity and $400 for water and "To Be Budgeted" is 0. Great!

      Then I have another income of $1000 on 1/15. Now "To Be Budgeted" is $1000 which makes me think I  have money to spend on other things this month. Taking your advice, I'll budget $1000 towards Groceries for February. Jan and Feb both have "To Be Budgeted" of $0. Still great!

      Now comes the problem that I'm having trouble with. Say I end up over spending in Jan and I'm shuffling money around the categories and miscalculate.

      If I over budget ($425 to Water instead of $400), "To Be Budgeted" is still $0 for Jan. The only numbers that change are "Budgeted in Jan" and "Budgeted in Feb" and the only way for me to know I'm under budget is if I go into Feb, which now has a negative "To Be Budgeted".  This is an extra step compared to before. 

      Additionally,  this method only works if I budgeted Feb with exactly what my Jan income is. If I haven't, it's actually not easy to find what my total Jan income is as "Funds for Feb" will be Jan income minus over budget so I have to resort to doing manual math outside the app. This also forces me to budget for Feb first whereas before, Jan and Feb budgets were independent. 

      If I under budget ($50 for Electricity instead of $100), "To Be Budgeted" is $50 for both January and February, making it difficult to figure out which month I'm under budget and violating the rule of giving every dollar a job. 

      I think I understand how the numbers change and why they are what they are. It just seems like there are more edge cases to remember for common scenarios that can happen.

      Reply Like 8
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 15
      • Reported - view

      Wei You're seeing "Stealing From the Future" in action. Over and over again I've seen YNAB support say that it's perfectly ok because the current month is more important than the future month. They don't seem to believe that a user may have the priority of maintaining revenue neutral months (walled months). Meanwhile, they keep telling people to budget money into future months to get ahead. Of course the farther ahead you budget, the more work it is to make sure you aren't stealing from the future.

      Seems like a major conflict of advice to me and a huge flaw in the application design.

      But you'll never get them to acknowledge that.

      Reply Like 15
      • bret
      • bret
      • 1 yr ago
      • 21
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB 

      I'm with nolesrule on this one. Hate hate HATE the lack of walled months in the new YNAB. Budgeting every scrap of income as it arrives -- about 15 times / month in my household -- is maddeningly tedious. Especially if it means I have to constantly jump back/forth to future months in a UX that only displays one month at a time.  Yuck.

      Worst of all, if I over-budget in the current month, it will silently "steal" from the future and I won't be aware of a problem unless I jump back into the future-most month.  I'm absolutely stunned that this issue hasn't been addressed in the 2+ years since this product was released. 

      Reply Like 21
    • Wei An import part of budgeting towards future months, is to make sure the current month is fully funded first. Having a Budget Template in place can be a great help here. If you have goals in place to help identify how much you need in each category, or Scheduled Transactions in place to alert you of upcoming expenses, you'll see what needs to be covered before moving to next month. If there's a Monthly Funding budget in place for that Electricity category, the Available balance will be orange if you don't budget that $100 needed to meet that goal amount.

      If you have variable expenses near the end of the month (like groceries or other expenses where the exact amount isn't known ahead of time), try to budget more than enough in that category before turning any attention to a future month. Positive Available amounts will carry over, so if you plan to spend $25 and budget $35 just in case, spending $30 will still leave you with an amount that carries over to next month.

      Done in this manner, stealing from a future month will only take place with overspending and when you see the red overspending you can either use the move money tool to fix the overspending in the current month or adjust the future month.

      Reply Like
    • nolesrule The new YNAB did change a number of things and features, but those changes were made to improve YNAB and the budgeting experience. We didn't ignore feedback, we tried to expand upon it - that's why we still collect feedback and analyze it for future consideration. Instead of building walls for each month, we broke them down in a way to still allow users to use that income in a future month. I think the biggest issue with future budgeting is trying to do it too soon. Funds shouldn't be budgeted towards next month until the current month is fully funded. When that's done, stealing from the future doesn't pose a threat. :) 

      As for frequency, like bret mentioned, every dollar needs a job. I know that can be a bit time consuming depending on pay frequency, but it's important. YNAB 4 gave dollars a general job of 'next month' while the new YNAB forces you to give them specific jobs (sans any work arounds). As long as the current month is fully funded, the stealing from future months can be avoided, but there isn't a way around budgeting those dollars - they need jobs, too!

      I'm always happy to pass along feedback, but I wanted to let you know Why these changes were made and how they're meant to help (not hurt) your budget and experience. 

      Reply Like 2
      • Wei
      • weizilla
      • 1 yr ago
      • 9
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB Thanks for the information! Sounds like as long as as I budget in full per month and am careful to only use the move money tool instead of manually adding and subtracting, I can avoid stealing from the future?

      Having money in the "Income for Next Month" category doesn't mean you're not giving it a job. You're just putting off assigning a job until the next month when you have all of the income to budget at once. It's job this month is to not get spent (out of sight out of mind). Plus people who utilize it already have the current month funded.

      Additionally, almost every every aspect of the financial world is on monthly granularity. The reports, goals and UI of YNAB are displayed by month. Most bills are paid on a monthly basis. You track your debt and progress by how much your net worth is by month. It only makes sense that income can be divided by month as well. I mean the official advice that Jesse gives for variable income is to literally take the money and divide it into buckets for each month: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQYjTZGWUDY&feature=youtu.be&t=132 Seems like having a single income bucket is the opposite of what he recommends. I would love to see how his advice is implemented in practice.

      If the future is unwalled income, I think even if there was just a "Total Income from Last Month" display item, that would help. My issues come after the month is fully funded but I end up making category move mistakes so I need the last month income to double check this month's budget numbers. 

      I appreciate your help. I think nYNAB is great and I know that everyone has different workflows but this feels like this is something that's missing for people who are already a month ahead. Please pass this feedback along to the product team!

      Reply Like 9
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Wei 

      Wei said:
      Sounds like as long as as I budget in full per month and am careful to only use the move money tool instead of manually adding and subtracting, I can avoid stealing from the future?

       Haha. You could write this another way....

      If I only move money using the happy path that they've provided, even though they've also provided other methods of editing the budget, I can avoid stealing from the future.

      Which of course then leads to the question of why are there other methods of changing the budget if they can lead to stealing from the future?

       

      But it's a shame their happy path is so limiting. There are many use cases where editing the budgeted amounts directly is a simpler way to move money... pretty much any scenario where you are not doing a straight 1-to-1 movement of money between categories. In fact, I rarely ever have a simple 1-to-1 movement of money to cover overspending  or overbudgeting.

      In those many-to-one scenarios, it's easiest to over-budget to cover an overspent category so TBB goes negative (or intentionally change a single category to a new number which introduces a state of overbudgeting because of an upcoming increase in an expense), and then remove money from categories until you reach the point that TBB is back to zero. But you can't do that when TBB doesn't go negative.

      Reply Like 4
      • bret
      • bret
      • 1 yr ago
      • 15
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB 

       like bret mentioned, every dollar needs a job. I know that can be a bit time consuming depending on pay frequency, but it's important. YNAB 4 gave dollars a general job of 'next month' while the new YNAB forces you to give them specific jobs (sans any work arounds)

      Disagree. It's not important for me to identify a specific future job for the $30 of interest I just earned.  Perhaps it can cover 1.5% of my March mortgage payment? 😉

      Budgeting each scrap of income as it arrives feels like "living paycheck to paycheck", and I'm simply not interested in budgeting that way.   

      What is vitally important to me is being able to make adjustments to the current (in-progress) month and having confidence that I won't accidentally tap into funds that I've intended to set aside for the future. But that requires a lot more effort in the new YNAB.

      Reply Like 15
    • bret nolesrule Wei

      I really appreciate you all tossing your opinions and feedback around, so I hope you don't mind me asking a question! Is it that you dislike not being able to send income to the future in a general context (out of sight for the moment), or that you dislike it's possible to take that money back from the future without more of a warning - or just the combination of the two together? (We somewhat diverged and started tackling both issues here)

      Since it's possible to budget current funds to the future already (even though it's by moving forward to that month and not just selecting for that money to be sent there), would that suffice if stealing from that future month was more safeguarded? 

      Currently, there is a happy path to follow to prevent that issue, but I understand if you prefer a different route. I prefer budgeting to specifics, that way it's more like filling in the gaps when I get income in the new month (rather than budgeting from scratch). That's solely personal preference, but nYNAB allows for both if you create a general category to temporarily hold that income. 

      Just want to make sure I'm correctly identifying the bigger issue here (stealing from the future), so any feature requests mention how to take out as many birds as possible with as few stones as needed. :)

      Reply Like 1
      • WordTenor
      • Arranged the menu, the venue, the seating.
      • WordTenor
      • 1 yr ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB The issue is not an either/or. There's one root cause, but they're both resultant problems. That you think it possibly could be an either/or concerns me with respect to what will ultimately be communicated to those who have the power to fix it. 

      Honestly, most of stealing from the future could've been solved if the suggestions from the alpha testers to turn the current month to a red TBB $0.00 had been implemented. Or just something! All you need is a heads up in the current month that a future month is overspent.  

      Having all your income for the month come in at once is about clarity. I confess that I started using nYNAB at the exact same time that I started a job that pays one a month at the end of the month. Prior to that, I still did budget income as I received it, but there was often a moment where I wouldn't budget the last bit until I really sat down to *budget.*  I also was pretty freaking broke, and every cent I earned was obligated to something. The more play you have in your budget the more you need to be able to see all that money at once before you make any decisions about what to do with it.  

      Jesse says he does this by leaving money in TBB. The thing is that whenever you change the budget without using the move money tool, you run the risk of affecting TBB when you don't mean to. For me, who doesn't have a partner and types in the budget once a month, TBB would work fine. But for others, it wouldn't. Thre needs to be a way to be alerted that the current month has been changed. It's not enough to say, "just don't budget next month until you're done with this month!" because you suddenly become not done with this month the second you type $29.55 instead of $25.99 when you're adjusting the budget by hand.

      if you could lock TBB edits after finishing a month, it would solve both problems. Two problems. Same root. Possibly same solution. But two problems, both important. 

      Reply Like 8
    • Hey WordTenor !

      I asked to make sure I was getting things clear here! :)

      We actually take quotes (anonymously, for sake of privacy) from your feedback and send them directly to our development team. What you write is what we send along, with possible notes to point out key words for analytical purposes.

      Two issues - got it! 

      Reply Like
      • Wei
      • weizilla
      • 1 yr ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB For me, it's about being able to easily compare how much I made last month vs my total budget amount for this month and being able to quickly tell if I'm over or under. How that is implemented is still being debatable (a la this thread). YNAB 4 used walled months with two fixed income categories. Whether nYNAB should have two fixed income categories or a single income category and simply a way to tie "To Be Budgeted" to only last month's income or even just a new UI line item ("Last Month's Income"), is still open to discussion.

      I also had a epiphany when thinking about your question and I think it explains the difference between YNAB 4 and nYNAB and what people are having issues with. I'll try to explain it here.

      In YNAB 4, you had two ways to budget. 

      The first method is budgeting each paycheck as it comes in. In this case, every time you get a paycheck, you budget and fund categories however much you can using that money. For example, you might need $100 for groceries and $200 for electricity for the whole month. When paycheck 1 comes in and is $150, you budget and put $100 to groceries and $50 towards electricity. Then as paycheck 2 comes in, you budget again fill in the rest of the $150 for electricity then use the rest towards other categories. "To Be Budgeted" here is simply asking "Have you given all of your money a job?"

      The second method is if you're on the buffer in which cause you use both income categories. Instead of budgeting each paycheck as they come in, you squirrel them away into a separate pile ("Income for Next Month"). Then when the next month starts, you take all money and budget everything. In this case "To Be Budgeted" is actually "Last Month's Income" or "To Be Budgeted for This Month". You don't want to know if you've given ALL of your money a job because your total income could contain money for next month. You only want to know how your budget this month compares to last month's income. Since YNAB 4 had walled income, this workflow worked out.

      In nYNAB, we only have the first method. All the money goes into a single income category and you keep on filling your categories as each paycheck comes in. When you're done with this month, you just roll over to the next month and start filling it's categories. This is the method you were suggesting. It makes sense because the goal is to fill categories as far into the future as possible.

      The problem is, a lot of us use the second method because we're already a month ahead and want to budget one month at a time.  "To Be Budgeted" still means "Have you given ALL of your money a job?" but we're treating it as "To Be Budgeted for This Month". This is why stealing from the future occurs. It's not a bug because if you treat "To Be Budgeted" as "Have you given ALL of your money a job", it only makes sense that any over budget this month will pull from next month's budget and TBB remains zero. The software is behaving exactly as it should. The problem is for YNAB 4 buffer users is we're expecting "To Be Budgeted" (or some number in the UI) to act as "To Be Budgeted for This Month" so we can compare this month's budget with last month's income.

      This also creates the workaround where you create an extra category for income then empty it at the beginning of the month. This causes "To Be Budgeted", which is still "Have you given ALL of your money a job", to be the same as "To Be Budgeted for This Month" because you're only releasing one month's income at a time.

      Reply Like 5
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 1 yr ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Wei 

      Wei said:
      In YNAB 4, you had two ways to budget.

      The first method is budgeting each paycheck as it comes in. In this case, every time you get a paycheck, you budget and fund categories however much you can using that money. For example, you might need $100 for groceries and $200 for electricity for the whole month. When paycheck 1 comes in and is $150, you budget and put $100 to groceries and $50 towards electricity. Then as paycheck 2 comes in, you budget again fill in the rest of the $150 for electricity then use the rest towards other categories. "To Be Budgeted" here is simply asking "Have you given all of your money a job?"

      The second method is if you're on the buffer in which cause you use both income categories. Instead of budgeting each paycheck as they come in, you squirrel them away into a separate pile ("Income for Next Month"). Then when the next month starts, you take all money and budget everything. In this case "To Be Budgeted" is actually "Last Month's Income" or "To Be Budgeted for This Month". You don't want to know if you've given ALL of your money a job because your total income could contain money for next month. You only want to know how your budget this month compares to last month's income. Since YNAB 4 had walled income, this workflow worked out.

      In nYNAB, we only have the first method. All the money goes into a single income category and you keep on filling your categories as each paycheck comes in. When you're done with this month, you just roll over to the next month and start filling it's categories. This is the method you were suggesting. It makes sense because the goal is to fill categories as far into the future as possible.

      The problem is, a lot of us use the second method because we're already a month ahead and want to budget one month at a time. "To Be Budgeted" still means "Have you given ALL of your money a job?" but we're treating it as "To Be Budgeted for This Month". This is why stealing from the future occurs. It's not a bug because if you treat "To Be Budgeted" as "Have you given ALL of your money a job", it only makes sense that any over budget this month will pull from next month's budget and TBB remains zero. The software is behaving exactly as it should. The problem is for YNAB 4 buffer users is we're expecting "To Be Budgeted" (or some number in the UI) to act as "To Be Budgeted for This Month" so we can compare this month's budget with last month's income.

       Thank you for this insight.  You are absolutely correct.  Those of us who have been arguing that lack of Income for Next Month and the resulting Stealing from the Future issue is a huge honking bug have been wrong.  It's not a bug, it's a deliberate design feature of the program.  I happen to think it's a dumb, counter-productive feature; but my problem is really with the budget philosophy and not with the program implementation.

      I conclude that the YNAB organization is unlikely to change its budget philosophy to suit my tastes, so I will need to do a workaround for as long as I use nYNAB.  My energy would be better spent devising the best workaround I can to implement a budget philosophy that works for my situation, than arguing that the budget philosophy endorsed by YNAB and codified in the web interface should be changed.  It is unlikely that I will be able to get the YNAB organization to agree with my point of view on how the budget should work.

      Reply Like 5
    • Faness The problem with the theory you propose is two-fold. Ensuring that you budget for the current month at the expense of funding that you "assume" you are allocating for the following month is detrimental to your budget. This is why walled funding ensures clear boundaries between "current" and "future" allocations. nolesrule  is trying to make this case. If there are categories that bust the budget, you are making it harder to compensate for this issue, if you are concurrently planning the following month; especially if you are using funds ahead of time. No doubt about that.

      In addition, no two months will have the same budget. They NEVER should, so stating that a budget template will help is inaccurate. It does not help. In addition, you are assuming fixed income, which is not everyone's case. It makes sense to be able to "flesh" out a future budget as income is received. By dropping the walls between months, clearly outlining a future budget has become messy. 

       nolesrule   is correct, experienced users of YNAB4 will find this incomprehensible, and i truly think this will overly confuse new users. But what do we know...

      Reply Like 7
    • Faness I think you can have it both ways. If you allowed incoming funds to be split and allocated for the future and for the current month, with walls in place, then money can be moved from future spending back to the current month, covering any overspending, but by alerting that future allocations are experiencing a negative impact, throwing that budget off and requiring adjustment.

      Reply Like 3
      • MXMOM
      • MXMOM
      • 11 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

       I have a category called Month Ahead where I park the amount in excess of the current month. Then next month I transfer month ahead to TBB and away I go. Or leave it there and just work with the current income.  We tried the budgeting out to the future and my husband didn't like it.  He likes to see the big fat amount in month ahead.

      Reply Like 3
    • nolesrule I'm confused...if you're SO against how this program works...why are you using it? Sounds like you can handle things all on your own without utilizing YNAB  🤔

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 6 mths ago
      • 9
      • Reported - view

      ItsCalledWhiskey Let me sum up for you. YNAB4 > online YNAB >  all other alternatives.

      Hence I continue to use YNAB4. As soon as online YNAB becomes functionally tolerable by my personal definitions as related to wanted functionality from YNAB4, I will start using it, since it is better than all other alternatives except YNAB4.

      Online YNAB does have some improvements over YNAB4, but not enough to make up for the  deficiencies.

      Reply Like 9
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 6 mths ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      ItsCalledWhiskey Some people look beyond their personal needs. There are continually new users who are confused and may even be burned by the various issues. There are obvious efficiency gains to be had as well. Thus the continued press for improvement by knowledgeable users who understand the requirements across the spectrum of use cases.

      Reply Like 6
    • nolesrule nolesrule I agree.  The Budgeting for next month from this months income is much more straight forward than having a huge pile of money (the current bank balance) to look at and budget from.  This is the most confusing function (non-function) of the new YNAB program.  I want my budget this months income for next month feature back!!!!

      Reply Like
  • Wei said:
    I feel like I'm in less control than before.

    Disclaimer:not yet a nYNAB user... wish I could be though.

    As far as I can tell the holding category is the best option.

    I wish 'walled months' was still a thing.  Praying for a mea culpa... some day.

    Reply Like 8
  • Simple work around: create a budget  category called "Money for Next Month".  Put your two paychecks in there in the current month and when the 1st of the new month hits, release those funds back to TBB and budget.  I prefer this because I like to budget the whole month at once, but it's actually way better on another front because by not pre-budgeting the month ahead, your TBB will actually go negative in the current month if you overspend, thereby making it easier to catch an overspent category.

    Reply Like 7
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      NotMyName Yeah, it' simple. But a workaround is a workaround. There shouldn't be a workaround.

      Also, you need to do it in a way so as not to mess up the Income/Expense reports, and that means the Income should be categorized directly to the holding category and then when you're done with the current month you re-categorize all of the income transactions for next month back to "Inflow: TBB" and budget them.

      Reply Like 7
      • NotMyName
      • Notmyname
      • 1 yr ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Sorry, you're incorrect on this.  You're trying to do something different than the system was designed for, so indeed you need a work-around.   nYNAB is different than YNAB4 and if you're trying to do something different than nYNAB was designed for, a work-around is what is called for.  Also, you're making this wayyyyy more complicated than it needs to be.   The checks that come in during the month need to be tagged TBB and then moved to the category (sorry for not making that clear, but it seemed a given), then simply release the money at the beginning of the month.  There is no need to category directly to the category and then change it around later- indeed, that would be the thing that would mess up your reports.

      Reply Like 3
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      NotMyName  You are right. I misspoke about the reports. i was holding too many thoughts in my head when I wrote it. I was thinking about a different topic.

      But the reason to categorize them at the transaction level up front is so you don't have to manually budget each income event to a holding category individually.  The transaction itself will do that. Then when it's time to budget your next month, you simply do a mass recategorization in the All Accounts view by filtering on that month's inflows assigned to the holding category and then switch it to Inflow: TBB. 

      I don't know about you, but I typically have 4-5 paychecks and about 20-30 other income events throughout the month.

      After multiple trials and errors among several long-time YNAB users they found that it was the most efficient method.

      As for the reporting, yeah, it's innacurate during the month, but it's accurate for all past months. I don't really look at the income/Expense report for the current month because it's always still in progress (although the sums would be accurate).

      Reply Like 3
      • Hal Sitt
      • haloony
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule NotMyName

      I am trying to figure out how to align my reports with the "Budget for next month" workaround. 

      I get a paycheck for $100 on 1/15 and set it as TBB. I then budget this $100 to a category I've named "For Next Month." As mentioned a few times in this thread, I can then release this money into February and budget accordingly. 

      When I go into my income-expense report, however, that $100 is reported as income for January because that's when the transaction was. I want to see that $100 included in the February Income-Expense report. 

      Am I doing something wrong? Am I thinking incorrectly? 

      Thanks, 

      Hal 

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Salmon Keyboard The income and expense report is based on transaction date. Income received in January will appear in the report in January. And that is correct behavior.

      Reply Like 1
      • Hal Sitt
      • haloony
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule 

      Hmmm... correct me if I am wrong but I think I recall that in YNAB4, money budgeted for next month would show up in next month's income-expense report 

      Maybe I am completely misunderstanding the function of this report 

      Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Hal Sitt Nope, in YNAB 4 the Income vs Expense report is based on transaction date.

      Reply Like 2
      • Hal Sitt
      • haloony
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      jenmas nolesrule

      I know this is tangential to the main topic of this thread so I apologize. I guess I am mistaken about this being a deviation from YNAB4 in how the Income vs Expense report works. The way I was thinking about it was that I should compare January's expenses with the income set aside for January and not the income received in January 

      Reply Like
      • AJ Morrow
      • essentiallyaj
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      NotMyName New to YNAB and trying this for the first time. How do I do the "release those funds back to TBB and budget" from "money for next month"? 

      Reply Like
      • NotMyName
      • Notmyname
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      AJ Morrow   So what I do is this:  Because I am fully budgeted for October by October 1st, all the money I make in October goes in to To Be Budgeted (TBB). I then put it in a budget category I created "money for next month".  Then on October 31, I will release the money back to TBB- I do this by simply changing the budgeted amount in the category to $0.  Then, all the money I made in October will be available in TBB.  I click over to November and budget it all.  The trick is having enough money to get there (also called "fully buffered" or "living on last month's income").  For me, I know I had to take some funds out of my house down payment category and use that to budget a month ahead the first time, but being buffered made budgeting so much easier that it was totally worth it!

      Reply Like
    • AJ Morrow The release should be matched to how you put money in. If you categorize as TBB, you need to do something with transactions to release. If you budget into TBB, you need to do something in the budget.

      Personally, I categorize directly to the holding category (e.g., Income Next Month is what I've called it) because that's typically automatic (scheduler or Payee rules) and one less action for me to do manually. More importantly, I know exactly how much to release. If you go through the budget, early-month income will mix with last-month's income, which is a problem if you don't get around to releasing at the "right" time. (Even that is error-prone if you're importing transactions.)

      To release, I search for IncomeNext Month in All Accounts, select all those with the correct month in the date, and recategorize as TBB.

      This is the easiest procedure that I've found that keeps reports accurate AND preserves the budget headers (e.g., Budgeted in <month>) AND prevents those funds from being pulled back with an errant budget entry during the month.

      Reply Like 1
      • Marla E
      • Marla_e
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      This is the easiest procedure that I've found that keeps reports accurate AND preserves the budget headers (e.g., Budgeted in <month>) AND prevents those funds from being pulled back with an errant budget entry during the month.

      Completely agree; this is the workflow that I prefer as well. When you recategorize the "Income for Next Month" transactions to TBB to release those funds, the original transaction date is preserved, so historical income/expense reports will be accurate.   I would also add that it sounds more complicated to execute than it actually is; in practice it is quick and easy after you've done it a couple of times.

      Reply Like 2
  • Faness at YNAB said:
    everyone has their own preferences and I prefer manually adjusting my funds when I receive them rather than sending them to the future to be handled at a later date

     Walled months doesn't prevent you from budgeting when you receive money.

    Out of curiosity, how long did you use YNAB4, and what value over walled months does no walled months provide you? 

    I'm genuinely curious as I honestly don't 'get it'.  Until someone beats me over the head with a 'no walled months bat', I really just don't get how it's better and how anyone can actually feel good about their budget (re: stealing from the future) without the walled months.

    Reply Like 6
      • jayne_m
      • jayne_m
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Joel One of the few things I liked about nYNAB was the lack of walled months. I went back to 4 after using nYNAB for a year. I find the income for this month or next month limiting.  If I have a check for $2,000 and I need $1,000 for this month and $1,000 for next month, I have to do a split transaction. In nYNAB, I just flipped over to the next month and budgeted the $1,000 to a category. Also, if I want to use this month’s money two months out, I can’t do it in 4. Stealing from the future wasn’t an issue for me and it would be pretty much a non-issue if they had more than one month on a screen. That for me was a huge drawback that sent me back to 4.

      Reply Like 1
      • a_different_joel
      • Amused by the incorrigible nYNAB
      • A_different_joel
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      jayne_m Thank you for replying!  I looked for a long time for an app that let you put money into a month, when I found YNAB(4), it was awesome.  But really, I was a little disappointed in only being able to use This or Next month.  I wanted to just set a Month and Year!  So I definitely see your point there.  But I actually like splitting the 2000 into this and next months because I know this is meant for this month, and that is meant for that month. 

      People were requesting 'Income for X' for a long time.  So, YNAB, in my mind, did what a lot of companies do sometimes, and try to overdo and overthink.  In my opinion.  People want feature X... so instead of providing it, they thought, ok why do people want feature X, ok so how can we do something so radical that it makes the request of feature X obsolete because we thought of this whole new way to think about it.  So now we have no Income for X because you can just budget anything anywhere... well... that certainly removes the ability for me to ask for Income for X when there is no 'Income for' options now, but I also lose walled months, can steal from the future, and feel less in control of my money.

      Reply Like 2
    • Joel I used YNAB 4 and the new YNAB side by side for three months when I was just starting out. I liked being able to try both without bias and experience them both on an even playing field. While I liked YNAB 4, the new YNAB won out in the end (for me).

      As Jayne_m mentioned, there's an extra step for handling income in YNAB 4 if you're splitting it between certain months. I didn't like splitting that income as a now vs. later thing. In the new YNAB I'm able to see everything together as I move through the month. I actually feel more in control that way.

      I mentioned it above, but stealing from the future isn't an issue if the current month is fully budgeted for - though I do second Jayne's mention that side-by-side month's would be a great combination there. 

      Reply Like 1
      • a_different_joel
      • Amused by the incorrigible nYNAB
      • A_different_joel
      • 1 yr ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB thanks. 

      I still don't see what was stopping you from taking the "accumulation of a number of things." and just putting them into "savings" and "rent" right then...  But oh well.  I think it's something just beyond me.  The simplicity and ease of something earmarked for this month and next  month has forever blinded me.

      Reply Like 3
  • Faness at YNAB said:
    YNAB 4 gave dollars a general job of 'next month' while the new YNAB forces you to give them specific jobs (sans any work arounds).

     Leaving aside the whole walled months/no walled months discussion, I think the implication that a general job for funds is bad is problematic. YNAB materials have repeatedly stressed the idea of just learning to let your money sit is a good thing and that the job of "wait right there until I come up with a concrete plan" is a legitimate job for one's dollars. That's why I have a Loss of Income category for 6 months of minimum expenses (mortgage, utilities, food, COBRA, and the like) rather than budgeting those things out right now. And I'm saying this as someone who really likes a granular level of categories (I have about 70 right now), so I certainly respect the importance of specificity of jobs in the budget. But it's not always called for.

    Reply Like 9
    • jenmas I agree that having dollars sit is a Good thing, but I prefer they sit with a specific purpose. In YNAB 4, when I sent funds to next month, it wasn't Just savings or Just rent, it was an accumulation of a number of things. I didn't prefer having that income lumped together and then later piecing it out again - it was easier for me to form that plan as I received that income.

      Not that that's the "right" way (or wrong, per se), it was just easier for me to process as I went along and to make changes if they were later needed.

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 11
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB Interesting, because I think most people who embrace Income for Next Month find it easier to formulate a plan when they can view an entire month as a whole. After all the majority of the expense cycle is based on monthly spending or multiples of months. Even the advice to break down True Expenses is based on saving monthly amounts. The goal system is based on monthly amounts.

      The income cycle, on the other hand, does not match up well with expenses and the cycle. In our house I've got income events from one person occurring every two weeks and income events occurring every 15th and last day of the month.

      This is where I think YNAB didn't do enough to truly understand the benefits of Income for Next Month in budgeting theory. The entire meta purpose of income for next month has become the ability to separate budgeting from the income cycle with multiple income events which ultimately allows aligning income with expenses and saving.

       

      And finally, I will posit that if you are budgeting paycheck to paycheck, you are still living paycheck to paycheck. You are still having to decide which categories to fund when based on your paycheck cycle... just with a larger bank account. And really, what's the point of that when you already have the money to fill them all at once? It's most certainly not awareness.

      It would have been nice if YNAB had actually talked to long-time YNAB4 users about why they felt income for Next Month was so valuable. because maybe then they would have understood. because i don't think from the answers we've gotten that YNAB does undertand. Like I said, the old functionality was apparently a happy accident.

       

      I'm sorry you never had the moment of epiphany that so many of us had with "Income for Next Month" functionality.

      Reply Like 11
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      And finally....

      Stealing From the Future

       

      Fix it already!!!!!

      Do I need to link to my old YNAB forum on the topic? It hit me in the November 2015 nYNAB trial, and as soon as I discovered the bug, which still isn't fixed, i swore off even considering an upgrade. People are coming up with work around after workaround to prevent it.

      It's sad that there have to be so many workarounds for what used to be simple functionality.

      And don't tell me it's easy to avoid. One of my fellow old YNAB Forum members accidentally spent over $1000 in the current month that was intended for a future month because of the bug.

      Reply Like 5
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      And one final, final thought. You can still budget each paycheck with Income for Next Month. So that should be a non-starter as a reason to eliminate it.

      Reply Like 1
    • nolesrule I asked a question above about these two and level of importance/would one fix the other - I hope you'll chime in! :)

      As for the income frequency, my husband gets paid weekly, I get paid bi-weekly and monthly, and we both have a few loose ends that come in up to twice a week. I understand the time that can take, but I prefer the multiple small sessions to the few larger sessions - I'm also the type to work on (ie. Stare at) my budget when nothing has changed. 😅

      I'm not saying budgeting income to next month in YNAB 4 didn't work (it definitely did and some users prefer it), it just wasn't my favorite option. 

      Reply Like
  • Faness at YNAB said:
    I'm also the type to work on (ie. Stare at) my budget when nothing has changed. 😅

     Believe me, I get that. I think a lot of us can identify with that.

    But in our case Mrs. nolesrule is busy and doesn't have the time to deal with frequent decision making... and there have been times I've made some decisions on my own and she wasn't happy about it (she agreed with the decision, she didn't like I made the decision without her input), so I've stopped doing that.

    What I have found with using Income for Next Month is that because we live below our means, we've come to a general agreement on what to do with all our money each month. And even with every category planned out, we still end up with leftover money from our take home pay as well as bits here and there from cash back rewards and bank account interest, as well as unused money in everyday categories.

    So we have, in effect, a surplus each month (and in months where the wife gets 3 paychecks, it's a huge surplus). We use that surplus first to cover/cashflow anything unexpected, and then whatever is left at the end of the month-- and 99% of the time all of it is still left-- the money gets divided up based on a formula we agreed on.

    If I were to go back to budgeting by paycheck, it would be harder to identify the surplus. I'd be having to make decisions on whether every single category is funded properly as each income event happens, and making decisions on how far out to budget.

    Being able to see the surplus by budgeting monthly allows us to make other better financial decisions faster beyond just the short- and intermediate-term saving/spending, which is the zone where YNAB excels. It allowed us to quickly see that we could jack up our 401k deferrals to max out our contributions. Something we never did before Income for Next Month. And we now have a brokerage account with a higher value than our Income Replacement category.

    I think when the income vs. spending is much tighter than what we have, it's even more important to be able to identify the monthly delta, and formulate a good financial plan to take advantage of it.

    Reply Like 11
    • nolesrule Just adding my agreement with this. This is my situation as well. I just wish YNAB wasn't one way or the other. I would love a product that allows for users to choose how they want to handle certain things like this so that they can budget the way they want to budget, not the way we're forced to budget. Flexibility adds complexity, but if achieved properly it can increase satisfaction and user base.

      Reply Like 5
    • nolesrule 

      When I was using YNAB 4, looking at all my month's income at once was slightly daunting. I had the feeling of 'Here's everything you have to work with, don't drop it'. With how you explained it I can see how that bigger picture would actually be a helpful overview rather than the overwhelming feat I saw it as. It's why I prefer budgeting when I receive income - smaller steps towards the big picture - rather than all at once. I felt like tackling the entire month each month was a lot to bite off - I did it, but it took me more time to analyze Everything vs the one interest payment today or paycheck tomorrow.

      That being said, Mrs. Nolesrule chose well - happy wife, happy life and a budget plays an important role in that equation somewhere. I don't mind taking the time for the more frequent budgeting steps, but I understand your point and the others made on this thread - convenience and ease, got it! :)

      Passing this along to our development team!

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      jenmas And you don't have to be a high earner to get there. You just have to live below your means.

      There won't be any gaps if you live below your means.

      Reply Like 6
    • jenmas nolesrule

      When I mentioned gaps I was referring to categories that haven't been budgeted for in that month yet. This is sans carryover; specifically categories that weren't budgeted for in the future month during the previous month. For instance, maybe all necessities were cover for February in January, but in February there's nothing budgeted in Car Repairs for the month of February, I'd call that a "gap". There's probably a better word for those than 'gap' or 'category I haven't gotten to yet', but those are usually where I send leftovers.

      Reply Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB I have to agree with jenmas ; if you live below your means, eventually gaps as you define them become rare.  For me, a gap is something like needing to rebuild my Unexpected Expenses category because last month something unexpected happened.  Or, like this month, I could have the opposite of a gap (an overlap?).  When I was working, that meant funds could get thrown out of the budget to an investment account.  In retirement, that means I need to draw less from an investment account for next month's budget.  This is *much* easier to manage budgeting once a month (i.e., re-creating Income for Next Month) than it would be budgeting 4 times a month as the money comes in.

      Reply Like 2
    • Patzer What would you refer to a category as if it doesn't need attention but has nothing budgeted towards it? For instance, if you fully funded one of those Unexpected Expense categories so you don't need to budget for it in the current month - I call it a gap (even if fully funded) because the Budgeted column is empty, but I see how that's misleading (especially when I sometimes add to those categories).

      Reply Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 1 yr ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB I don't have a label for categories like that, though I have some of them.  Unexpected Expenses does not get any funding in a normal month.  Most of the time, it just sits there fully funded at $2000, a number scientifically chosen in 2008 after my daughter drove my car with $1000 deductible collision insurance into the side of my garage with $1000 deductible homeowner's insurance.

      Less dramatically, I don't usually put funds in the Postage category; it sits there with a dab of money in it in case I need to buy stamps.  After I buy stamps, I re-fund the category.

      In other cases, I have categories where my "normal" funding is greater than an average month of expenses.  These tend to be lumpy expense categories like Auto:Service.  A repair can be costly, but isn't frequent.  I have a cap for that category and a par budget amount for rebuilding.  If the category is at cap, I salvage budget funds for other purposes; but if it's below cap, I want to rebuild it at the rate of the par budget so I can handle a repair that might arrive more quickly than they do on the average.

      This is perhaps slightly more nuanced than the goals as implemented in nYNAB, but it's okay if I don't have a programmed goal telling me how to do this.  It's something I can manage without colored highlights.  It's also something that can be done if I can live below my means, and something I never *thought* of doing before I found YNAB.

      I suppose both Unexpected Expenses and Auto:Service are what nYNAB would call True Expenses; by dollar weight, my budget is dominated by True Expenses.

      Perhaps this sounds a little complicated, but I really was budgeting in less than 30 minutes a month in YNAB 4.  I'm not there yet in nYNAB, but I think I can get there . . . as long as I have a reasonably efficient workaround to re-create Income for Next Month.  Doing it while budgeting this month (or next month) piecemeal as inflows arrive just isn't as time-efficient.

      Speaking of which, the program really ought to do Income for Next Month automatically like it did in YNAB 4, YNAB 3, and YNAB Pro (though it had a clumsier name like "Primary Income" back in YNAB Pro days.)  Some day, many of the people who start out budgeting paycheck to paycheck will improve their skills and financial position to the point where the time savings from doing the budget once a month instead of 2, 4, or 15 times a month will allow them to focus on other ways to improve their finances.

      Reply Like 6
    • Patzer 

      I've never thought of which section of my budget holds the most weight, but I have to agree with you - my True Expenses is buffered to cover a number of "maybes" or "just in cases", so it's my savings that isn't actual savings.

      I can't imagine budgeting in 30 minutes a month. I spend more time than that just staring at my budget (outside of work!). It sounds like you have your budget down to a complete science, after years of experience with the YNAB program - which is a high level of impressive! :)

      I think handling income as Income for Next Month sets up a streamline to handle everything in one sitting instead of dividing things throughout the month. With practice, I can imagine cutting that once-a-month time down, but I'd personally miss all the quality time I spend with my budget.

      However, I hear you loud and clear and I'll pass this along to the development team! 

      Reply Like
  • This discussion reminds me of the discussions we used to have with Jesse back in the YNAB 3 days.  Users such as Joel and myself maintained that there was a huge bug that let the user create or destroy money by not budgeting to zero.  Jesse maintained it wasn't a bug, because it wasn't an issue when the user followed the methodology correctly.

    Okay, the steal from the future issue isn't as bad as the old YNAB 3 create/destroy money issue; but it's still pretty bad.  The user can undo future budgeting he has done *without realizing what he has done*.  In broad theory, YNAB (any flavor of YNAB) is supposed to be helping the user control his money.  Anything that happens behind the scenes to materially change the budget picture without warning the user of what is being done is a huge honking problem.

    The way it ought to have been designed:

    - All income categorized as To Be Budgeted

    - A special category exists, To Be Budgeted - Future.  Money can go there if the user categorizes an inflow to this successor of Income for Next Month, or if the user *budgets* to this category

    - To Be Budgeted stays in the current calendar month, clearly showing the user whether he has budgeted above, below, or to zero.

    - When the user makes a *conscious decision* to budget some of TBB to TBB-Future, that money becomes TBB in the next month forward.  It can then be budgeted in the next month forward, or rolled further forward by budgeting it to TBB-Future again.

    - When the calendar rolls from January to February, TBB for January is automatically transferred to TBB for February.  Absent the user consciously deciding to budget future months, this does not happen until the first of the month arrives.  This is consistent with the nYNAB prohibition of future dated transactions; simply make the roll of TBB to next month a scheduled event rather than the future dated event reflected in the program right now.  (Rant about the stupidity of not allowing future dated outflows omitted; I'm trying to work within the intellectual framework of nYNAB.)

    Predicted results:  Budgeting to zero becomes truly budgeting to zero.  Budgeting in the future is allowed, but there is a wall preventing the current month from stealing amounts deliberately budgeted in future months.  Whack-a-mole keeps the necessary characteristic of TBB showing how far from zero the budget is, and in which direction.  Users are not forces to drag and drop money in the one-to-many or many-to-one budget adjustment scenarios.

    Stealing from the future would be allowed, but it wouldn't happen automatically.  The user would have to transfer fund from TBB-Future back to TBB, and presumably would then be aware of the consequences.

    I have fixed the lack-of-walled-month and steal-from-the-future problems for my own budget with workarounds; but they are *workarounds*.  My workarounds are just fine for someone with 10 years of YNAB experience including the Bad Old Days of figuring out budget theory while using YNAB Pro; they could be a bit much for new users who are just learning to budget.

    As to pay frequency, right now my budget is paid 4 times a month:  Pension arrives on the 1st, Social Security arrives on the 3rd Wednesday, interest is paid at end of month in several pieces, and transfer from investments to budget happens once a month whenever I do it.  In YNAB 4, it's all Income for Next Month.  In nYNAB, it's all run through a workaround to manually create the effect of Income for Next Month.  I don't want to budget 4 times a month, and see no reason this should be necessary.

    Reply Like 10
  • Patzer said:
    This discussion reminds me of the discussions we used to have with Jesse back in the YNAB 3 days. Users such as Joel and myself maintained that there was a huge bug that let the user create or destroy money by not budgeting to zero. Jesse maintained it wasn't a bug, because it wasn't an issue when the user followed the methodology correctly.

     Ah, the old not-budgeting-to-zero issue! What a treat it was that that was finally addressed in YNAB3 :)

    Jesse Mecham , do you ever come through and personally review/consider/comment on these new YNAB forum posts, as you used to back in the old YNAB Pro days? Would love to hear you weigh in here on this topic, as I was always so impressed at your hands-on "in the trenches" approach to product feedback back in the day.

    Reply Like 2
  • Faness at YNAB said:
    I think the biggest issue with future budgeting is trying to do it too soon. Funds shouldn't be budgeted towards next month until the current month is fully funded. When that's done, stealing from the future doesn't pose a threat. :)

    There's a fundamental problem with this statement, Faness at YNAB : one cannot be *certain* that the current month's spending is 100% fully funded until the very end of the month, because real life happens.

    This is the entire reason Rule 3 exists, and what sets YNAB apart: the acknowledgement that no matter how perfectly we try to anticipate things, we can't possibly always get it right (as Jesse Mecham says, there's no such thing as a "normal" month!).

    So given that reality, your statement implies that one shouldn't budget towards next month until the end of the current month (since that's the only time you can actually be certain the current month is fully funded) - which then conflicts with the new Rule 4, since that *encourages* budgeting ahead to future months.

    Reply Like 12
    • Resistant Punch Roller I would definitely say sans emergencies (or unexpected happenings) - I should've included that bit initially! Those are definite cues to rework your budget and arrange to cover those spendings, which would also be cue to watch for how that affects your future months.  

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 10
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB The cue to watch how it affects your future months needs to be in the current month header. How do I maintain the TBB of zero if the header doesn't give me a true zero that includes what was budgeted in future months?

      This is one of my biggest problem with the restrictions that the new YNAB has placed on how things work. The cues that there were issues all used to be right in front of you. But now you have to check future months or look at the inspector to get information that used to be available right in the current month's budget with no extra looking around just to see if maybe, just maybe, you messed something up.

      I mean, now you can't even rely on your category balance to make spending decisions. You have to check the inspector first to make sure that the scheduled transactions (that you can't move to the register because they are future-dated) won't cause your category to be underfunded.

      That's the definition of tedious extra work. It's making it harder to be aware with accuracy, which is the opposite of what YNAB should be doing for your budget. They should be striving to be able to determine accuracy at a glance without all sorts of extra investigation.

      Reply Like 10
      • WordTenor
      • Arranged the menu, the venue, the seating.
      • WordTenor
      • 1 yr ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB as I said above, you can be as finished with the month as ever, completely locked and loaded, and the moment you move money manually and make a typo, you've drawn money back from next month. Depending on what it does to the category, you may or may not notice. 

      Honestly, I prefer the permeable month boundary in nYNAB. I think it makes it much easier for new users to figure out how to become buffered. But without awareness into what'a happening next month, it can quickly become a problem. 

      At one point, Jesse said that a fix for TBB was being held off for the fully functional mobile app. That made perfect sense--it involves the calculation engine in a pretty big way and obviously you'd have to incorporate that. But now we have the apps and the fix clearly got scrapped. That's pretty frustrating. 

      Reply Like 5
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 1 yr ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB

      Faness at YNAB said:
      Resistant Punch Roller I would definitely say sans emergencies (or unexpected happenings) - I should've included that bit initially! Those are definite cues to rework your budget and arrange to cover those spendings, which would also be cue to watch for how that affects your future months.

      To paraphrase Resistant Punch Roller , there's a fundamental problem with this statement.  Before the month is over, you *don't know* that there will be no emergencies (or no additional emergencies) in the month.  And right when that unanticipated emergency happens is a Bad Time for paying attention to lots of details that must be watched in different places.  Your recommendation comes down to, "Don't budget February until January is over."

      That puts me in a position of being forced to violate one or another recommendation.  Either I budget forward, and I have the stealing from the future problem; or I don't budget to zero, and I have the problem of remembering just *how much* I should be leaving in TBB at this point in the month; or I manually work around to re-create Income for Next Month, which was Jesse's most brilliant idea.

      To be fair, it makes no difference to the flow of my budgeted expenses whether I budget on last month's income or this month's income.  Right now, I have about half of a budget month sitting in a 6 month T-Bill at Treasury Direct.  That T-Bill could just as easily sit in my off-budget brokerage account.  I could move another half month of budget there, and go to budgeting as the cash flows in.  But that's just plain more labor, and it would obscure my planning process for how much I need to draw from investments for the budget.

      Jesse originally thought that budgeting on last month's income was a financial buffer.  It is that, sort of, with obvious limits like an end of month paycheck not being much of a buffer.  But the big deal is, it lets the user budget with real money *and* only have to budget once a month.  The old tag line was, "Budget in 30 minutes a month."  It was kind of a joke on the forums that people really spent a lot more than 30 minutes on their budget.  But guess what?  If you don't count the time spent recording transactions as they occur, I went from about 2013 to mid-2016 doing my my monthly budget in less than 30 minutes.  The promise was delivered.  And then nYNAB wants to take that away by asking me to budget however often money comes in, even assuming I can gloss over all the other problems that YNAB Support does not admit are problems.

      Reply Like 2
    • Patzer WordTenor nolesrule

      Thank all of you for further explaining! :)

      I've gathered that there are a number of reasons stealing from the future isn't a favorable thing here - not just that it's occurrence causes inaccuracies that have to be addressed in the future, but also that its prevention takes more work. We want YNAB to make budgeting easier so, while workarounds exist and can be managed, I understand they aren't ideal. 

      As for Income for Next Month, I see how it can help cut back on budgeting time. While I personally prefer budgeting as I receive income, I admit cutting back the time it takes to budget isn't a priority of mine. Budgeting in 30 minutes is an impressive feat, but it would leave me with even more time to do more staring at my budget. That doesn't mean I don't understand why others would find this important.

      I'm sending both of these points (in a number of variations gathered from this thread) over to our development team.

      If there's anything else you'd like to tack on, or any parts you don't think were fully covered in other comments, just let me know!

      Reply Like 1
      • maylou
      • maylou
      • 1 yr ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB The issue seems to be that nYNAB allows and indeed encourages people to budget the way you prefer, but it makes it very hard to budget the way others prefer. YNAB4 allowed people to budget either way - you could assign all new income to Income Next Month and then immediately budget it, or you could leave it sitting in Next Month's ATB (TBB) until Next Month became This Month, and then budget it. It facilitated choice in a way that nYNAB doesn't.

      I almost always wait until the bulk of a month's income is in before I budget it. I still use YNAB4 for several reasons but this is a main one. Sometimes, however, I get excited and budget in dribs and drabs. For instance, right now I have £539.15 in March's ATB in YNAB4. I could, if I wished, budget £400 to Mortgage, £100 to Council Tax and £39.15 towards Insurance (I'd have to add 85p when I next got income, because Insurance needs £40). Equally, I can leave it in ATB until the 26th when my wife gets paid, by which time almost all of February's income will also have arrived, and budget the entire lot in one go. Or I can do one and then undo it and do the other. No matter which I choose, it won't be affected by or affect February's budget, other than if I overspend in February and don't adjust February's budget to cover it.

      Reply Like 3
    • maylou Thanks for weighing in here! You're absolutely right - YNAB 4 provided the option for both while the new YNAB has a workaround (which I know isn't the same as an actual option). I've added this to the list of feature requests sent over to our development team. :) 

      Reply Like 2
  • Kudos to you guys still fighting the good fight. I miss the days when my opinion and experience mattered to YNAB.

    Reply Like 7
    • Hi Joel !

      We're still listening! We hear you and the feedback we receive gets forwarded to our development team. 

      They collect it in a database, code it, asking questions like Where is this person in their budgeting journey? What problem are they wanting to solve? Then, in regular research cycles they analyze all this collected feedback to plan for what’s next  in YNAB. :)
       

      Reply Like
      • negrcian
      • negrcian
      • 1 yr ago
      • 8
      • Reported - view

      Faness Jesse Mecham promised that the stealing from the future would be addressed in a holistic manner. If input from the founder, and CEO doesn't make it to the top of your developer priorities then the promise that you make all the time that the feedback is important and carefully tracked is just not believable any more. 

      Reply Like 8
  • Patzer said:
    To paraphrase Resistant Punch Roller , there's a fundamental problem with this statement.  Before the month is over, you *don't know* that there will be no emergencies (or no additional emergencies) in the month.  And right when that unanticipated emergency happens is a Bad Time for paying attention to lots of details that must be watched in different places.  Your recommendation comes down to, "Don't budget February until January is over."

     Agree, but I wouldn't even characterize it as "emergencies." I typically make small tweaks to my budget up to the last day of the month to handle the normal (unanticipated) overspending that always seems to happen. It's Rule 3: Roll with the Punches.

    As if on cue, I just received a marketing email from Jesse Mecham where he shares this wisdom:

    I've been budgeting every single month since 2003 and I'll tell you the months where we didn't overspend:

    ...

    That's right. Not a one.

    There are basically three components to spending:

    • Plan what you want to spend.
    • Spend.
    • Adjust your plan.

    There's the rub. In accordance with Rule 3, I need to make adjustments to my budget all the time, so my budget is never really complete. I need a way of doing that without accidentally tapping into funds that I want to reserve for the future. The new YNAB makes that a lot more difficult.

    Reply Like 9
    • bret EXACTLY, yes, thank you for the perfectly queued Jesse Mecham quote! :)

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      bret Overspending isn't even the source of all adjustments. That's reactionary.

      If you recall when I initially called out SFTF on the old forums over 2 years ago, it was because I had a monthly bill amount where I'd gotten the notification that it was going up about $0.86/month. So I changed the budgeted amount and TBB was still zero. Talk about a head scratcher.

      Reply Like 4
  • I’m just going to note that I really hate these forums as you can’t logically follow a thread in the order that posts occurred. 

    Reply Like 8
  • I, too am a YNAB4 user from the past and was very active on the forum. I decided to try nYNAB for 2018. This is my first month rolling over. I just can't get my head around how to do it, no matter how much I read. 

    Faness at YNAB please don't think this thread is just a bunch of old YNAB4 fogies who don't want to change. As was said above, we are noticing a serious bug (SFTF) and loss of functionality (Income for Next Month). nYNAB users shouldn't need an audit trail, buffer workarounds, or second-guessing what amount YNAB has decided to adjust without letting us know.

    Reply Like 6
    • Granny Bogle I assure you, the word fogies never crossed my mind! :)

      While I don't want to refer to this as a bug, I think everyone on this thread has made it quite clear that Stealing From the Future is an issue and Income for Next Month is sorely missed. While I'm here to help and I can guide through how that feature is meant to work, I understand there isn't much appreciation for it. Definitely noted and passed along to our development team! :)

      Reply Like 1
  • I also want to add support for the idea of thinking about income in buckets/months. We (me and my fiancée) are payed at the 25th of each month and update our budget about weekly (not because the income has changed, but to re-prioritize and "roll with the punches"). January's paycheck goes to fund February. As there is less than a week of overlap "stealing from the future" is not a big problem for us.

    However, the "fluid months" style just doesn't make very much sense to us. We don't really use YNAB to avoid "living paycheck to paycheck" or "budgeting for the future". We use YNAB as a way to distribute our income according to our priorities. We put money into the categories as appropriate. Some categories will grow from month to month (e.g. goal-oriented savings such as for vacation or an emergency fund), but we never actually use the "Next month" button and explicitly budget money in the next month. We'd rather put that extra money in an off-budget investment account and assume that future income will fill cover for the future expenses. That also clearly forces us to solve any overspending or other minor unforeseen expenses within the budget for that month.

    The behavior I just described relies on the fact that we have a sound financial situation, stable jobs and predictable paychecks. Obviously emergencies or job loss can happen to us as well, but I feel putting money into the Rent category of next month and the month after that doesn't really protect us from that – an emergency fund and  long-term savings do.

    While I could possibly see the value budgeting for future months if I had very irregular income and was in a tight financial situation, it just doesn't make any sense to micro manage the future for us.

    Perhaps that's what this is all about? YNAB needing two modes for "my finances are on fire and I need help to survive" and "I've got stable finances but want to think about how I spend my money"?

    That's my two cents (or "öre" as they are called in Sweden). :-)

    Reply Like 5
  • First let me say that I think the best option is to make TBB "global" - and by that I mean, there should be some indicator in this month whether you are "stealing from the future."  This seems like the most straightforward thing that will work for most situations.   I get paid once per month & I'm not buffered (yet) so income for next month was never useful for me even when I used YNAB4.  However, in YNAB4 and now in nYNAB, I do use a deferred income category.  I'm on a tenth month salary so  I need to save money to cover expenses for those two months when I don't get paid.   I don't currently budget that in the future b/c I'm worried about "stealing from the future" so deferred income category it is.   I think a "deferred income" option (i,e, "income for some future month") option would be better than income for next month, I think.  I want to "hold" that money until July when I don't get paid.  I'm sure there are other people who get paid quarterly or whatever, so a more generic "income for the future" would work for them too.  I wouldn't need that "income for the future" option & would happily budget it in the future month if the TBB would warn me if I'm taking money from the future.  [I'm glad I don't have multiple income streams/checks - I can't imagine changing budgeting amounts every time a new paycheck came in - that would drive me bonkers.  The budget template makes it easier for the current month, but I would find it tedious for the future months.]

    Reply Like 3
  • This is my first time posting here but I really wanted to give my perspective as a brand new YNAB user who never tried any previous version of the software.

    I came to YNAB after years of using Quicken. I was really just looking for a cloud-based Quicken replacement, but once I started digging into the tutorials and classes, I recognized that YNAB could do so much more for my financial well-being than Quicken ever did. I was in love with it, but I had one big stumbling block. Budgeting in increments of less than a month just did not work for me.

    My billing cycles are monthly, I think in terms of spending or saving $x/month in my categories, but our income  arrives in multiple irregular installments throughout the month. I needed a way to set aside that income as it arrived, so that we could budget it all in one session at the beginning of each month. Trying to do it the way YNAB seems to want was driving me crazy. 😵

    I was not going to continue with YNAB past my trial, until I found the workaround of categorizing income directly to an Income for Next Month category, and then recategorizing it back to TBB at the end of the month to allow it flow into next month's budget.  This works well for me even though it makes the current month's reports incorrect. 

    With this workaround I am able to budget in a way that feels natural for me and enables me to make good decisions by looking at the whole month in my monthly budgeting session. It saves a lot of time too. I don't understand why this workflow isn't baked into the program -- as I said, I gather that it was a thing in YNAB4, but I never experienced that. I'm just sharing how YNAB didn't click for me until I found out how to hold my income for next month.

    I would love it the Design Time could make this a native feature and not so workaround-y.

    Reply Like 12
  • Faness at YNAB kudos on your professionalism and positive tone within this thread even when some of the comments are pretty rude/combative.

    Reply Like 3
    • Agreed, and apologies, Faness at YNAB , if I've been at all rude. I certainly don't envy your position of simultaneously fielding Support and PR issues! Thank you for listening and trying to understand where we're all coming from.
       

      Reply Like
    • MP Goodman Thank you very much for your kind words! YNAB users can be passionate, but I think that says a lot about what the program means to them. I know there are good intentions behind those words. :)

      Resistant Punch Roller Absolutely no need to apologize (but thank you for that)! I love seeing how everyone utilizes YNAB, how it suits the needs of each user and where there's room for improvement. There's no better way to see that than hands on in the community, so thank you for being here! :)

      Reply Like
      • Matt Tanner
      • Khaki_Sidewinder
      • 1 yr ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      Faness at YNAB Just throwing one more log on this fire. Logged into YNAB this am. Every dollar I earned in January has been allotted. Raised my Gas budget by $50 (because I had to fill up once more than I thought) and now it is a complete mess. I know the workaround(s), but goodness this seems so simple to fix. 

      Please send along one more vote for your developers to bring back "Next Months Income". Strongly considering Dave Ramsey's solution if not changed soon. 😔

      Reply Like 7
    • Matt Tanner Done and done! Thanks for weighing in here! :)

      Admittedly, I have not tried the Dave Ramsey app. I may take a quick peak to see how it's handled there.

      Reply Like 1
  • Yeah! This is a great idea! It'd be easier to understand than the current way. I hate how every paycheck messes up my "to be budgeted" number while i'm trying to increase the Age of Money.

    Reply Like 4
  • (@faness_ynab)

    Late to the party here but my 2 cents as a new user and for requirements gathering. I'd love to be able to get my check for next month (4th Monday of every month). I would then love to be able to take that check and spend it ONLY in next month budgeting. If I wanted to I'd love to take down walls but if I just wanted to budget it for ONLY next month I want that option. Later on I might want to even go 2 months ahead (if I am really ahead of the game). When I go back to this month I don't want to see my categories messed up financially (eg should not reflect next month's dollars). All this could be handled by more option buttons/user settings in a config. 

    Reply Like 6
  • Holy smokes! I knew I couldn’t be the only one confused on this. I spent hours trying to figure out what was happening. I could have sworn my wife and I budgeted ALL our available income on the 1st. On the 16th I opened the app and it said we had money to be budgeted. Huh, what? How? We budgeted it all already.

    When I realized it was from my check the day before, I went budgeted it all in the future month because I figured that must be how nYNAB wants it to work. Fine.

    Later, my weekly automatic credit card payment overpaid my card (fine my me). At this point nYNAB said I had budgeted too much so I added more to the credit card budget... and it let me steal money from the future without realizing it. I’m an experienced budgeter and it took far too long to realize what occurred and why.

    You guys are losing people to this “feature”. You’re helping people overspend the current month rather than save for the future.

    I have been preaching and teaching YNAB4 consistently for years. I had budgeting classs with three of my sisters in the past two weeks! I bought the book just to let people borrow to try to get them to use YNAB.  I love YNAB, but I can’t recommend nYNAB until this is fixed.

    I’m a software guy, so I get that this isn’t a “bug.” But when you have this many people using your budgeting software in a way that’s causing them to spend more and save less by stealing from the future, there’s a problem and you should address it in the software.

    I’m going to try using the workaround of adding an “Income for Next Month” category but until this is addressed I can’t recommend nYNAB for any more of my friends or family.

    Reply Like 10
  • I've been a YNAB user for 10 years -- it truly changed my life when I first started using it.  I was so comfortable with YNAB4 I held out on switching over to the newest version until I could no longer manage the inconvenience of not have an app that works any longer (my app stopped syncing with YNAB4 about 6 months ago and I wasn't able to fix it myself).

    To say that I'm confused and disappointed in the changes would be a really big understatement.  After 10 years of 'budget next month' and 'live a month ahead' ideology, I seriously cannot wrap my brain around this new version.  Wonderfully, my husband got a new job and with the increase in income we've decided to now upgrade to this version - however, the combination of the dramatic change in income and using this new YNAB is just way too much to wrap my brain around - I've watched as many videos as I can tolerate, and have been sitting with a calculator half the morning try to figure out where the heck some of the numbers at the top of the budget this month vs next month come from and how I can budget ahead. 

    Perhaps YNAB just isn't right for me now that I'm no longer living paycheck-to-paycheck - I just can't imagine how budgeting ahead a few months is a bad thing (considering that each month, including this one, we are putting ample money in savings), and I really don't understand how creating 'monthly funding goals' through a 'budget template' is any different than just putting the darn number in the budgeted box for the income I'm 99% sure will be coming in two weeks from now and would like to responsibly plan ahead for.

    I am very close to abandoning this and switching to Mint -- but it leads me to ask if anyone can point me in the direction of videos or trainings on here specifically for long-time YNAB users helping us make the leap between the 'old' way and the 'new' way.  It's a last-ditch effort before YNAB loses me for good.

    Thanks!

    Reply Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Orange Mixer If you want to make nYNAB work, there are workarounds to wall off income for next month. Or you could do what many of us do and stick to YNAB4. I'll be honest, I rarely, if ever, look at the mobile app. But if you need it, I'm sure some people can help you troubleshoot the YNAB4 mobile app on the old forum.

      Reply Like
    • Orange Mixer I'm more than happy to try to help you make nYNAB work for you, even though I agree with everything you said and am upset at YNAB for these silly changes ;) Even with these flaws, I still feel like nYNAB is the best option out there right now. Mint is fine for answering "how much did I spend last month" but terrible at assisting you plan for the current/next month.

       

      I tested setting up a "TBB - Next Month" category. Every time I get income throughout the month it is now auto-assigned to "TBB - Next Month". Only once the month is over, and we have completely finished the previous month's budget, do we change all the "TBB - Next Month" transactions to be the normal "TBB" category. Then we can budget for the current month.

       

      It's silly that we have to spend that extra 3-5 minutes when it should be built this way, but it's worth it to us to avoid stealing from the future.

       

      While we're on the topic, there are a few other things with nYNAB that drive me nuts that may bother you too. One is the removal of the Running Balance category. Luckily there's a Chrome plugin that adds this back in for you. I honestly don't get how people can fully reconcile without a Running Balance category, but somehow people must be doing it? Here's a thread that discusses the Running Balance missing and has a link to the Chrome plugin: https://support.youneedabudget.com/t/63pn1s

      Reply Like 1
      • briefcase
      • A rack of ties, a travel mug, telephone, briefcase filled with papers
      • briefcase
      • 1 yr ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Orange Mixer Specifically re: the numbers at the top of the screen, Funds for Month is the sum of anything budgeted for the future from a past month and any income flagged as TBB in the current month.  The rest is fairly self explanatory, but the funds for month number can be a head-scratcher for a new user.

       

      Faness I would like to add that the Stealing From the Future issue is a math problem, not just a workflow problem.  You have to reduce the equation in TBB to below 0 for it to be an issue to begin with, but for some reason there was a choice to obfuscate that from view in the current month.  If 0 doesn't equal 0, the software should let you know, regardless of what month it occurs in.  Technically, over-budgeting in the current month is what actually drops TBB to below 0, so it should reflect that truth immediately.

      Reply Like 4
  • Thanks everyone -- generally speaking, is it ok if I post a few more 'adjustment' questions here (ie adjusting from 4 to the new version!) or do I need to find the individual forums where they'd apply? 

    It would help if I could post them in a lump in one place, I have screenshots and such, and  nolesrule I'm thinking based on your user name you may be a helpful person to ask ;)

    Reply Like
    • Orange Mixer I'd recommend posting a new thread since this one is already so full, but you could probably post a single thread with all your questions! :)

      Reply Like
  • Another long time customer here just now trying to switch. The fact that you've received so much feedback and haven't offered a solution leaves me dumbfounded. Budgeting one month ahead was something you beat into your customers for years, and now it's gone? It was so much of the YNAB brand that it was the one thing I would always mention when telling someone about the software, and I would tell them how easy it makes budgeting once they can get one month ahead. After going through everything and deciding to move to nYNAB, I'm pretty bummed about this... Back to Classic I guess, is there a mailing list or something I can be put on for when this product is fixed and I can give you money?

    Reply Like 7
  • Just sat down to reconcile my budget for end of month and AGAIN ran into this nightmare. I thought I was over it, but just got angry all over again. It should not be this hard to use this product. (I find it especially annoying that this comment is considered ANSWERED).  Faness ? Taytay Does anyone actually care? I know I'm only giving you $5 a month, but help me out here. . . 

    Reply Like 2
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Matt Tanner The comment has indeed been answered.  Some of us don't particularly like the answer, but there is an answer.  In brief, don't hold your breath waiting for Income for Next Month to return to web-based YNAB.  If budgeting a full month at a time is important to you, the reasonable choices are to stay with YNAB 4 or to do a workaround to create the effect of Income for Next Month in web based YNAB.

      Right now, I'm running YNAB 4 and web-based YNAB in parallel.  I don't quite have everything worked out to make web-based YNAB as easy to use as YNAB 4, but if YNAB 4 breaks tomorrow it will not be a disaster for me.  FWIW, I use a workaround to create walled months and budget a full month at a time.

      Reply Like
    • Matt Tanner We're listening and we do care! I've been keeping an eye on this thread and passing along the feedback as it continues to grow. You've all made it very clear you'd like to see improvements in this area. For now, I'd suggest buffering the current month enough to prevent the issue you're running into. If that last tank of gas for the month is always the deal breaker, try budgeting more for gas this month so it doesn't affect next month.

      Also, in case you missed it, there's now a Feature Request option in the forum! You can send your feedback and requests directly to our development team! :)

      Reply Like
Like29 Follow
  • Status Answered
  • 29 Likes
  • 4 wk agoLast active
  • 192Replies
  • 13268Views
  • 74 Following