Faness Once we have followed those steps to adjust "Today's Balance", do we mark the automatically created line item as "cleared"?

Also, if I am making the full monthly payment (i.e. on my car loan or mortgage), is it safe to assume that the automatically created adjustment line item is equal to the interest I was charged?  Interest does not show up as a transaction within my accounts, so I have nothing to match it to.

Thank you!

Juliana Yes, you can mark that as cleared. Here's a little more on how we recommend tracking loans in YNAB. For many loans, the interest is included in the monthly payment. Is that the case with yours? You can create a balance adjustment like this, to update the balance and account for the interest!

Faness I'm shocked. It's okay not to support a feature, but the user interface is misleading us into thinking that it is or can be supported. They are essentially not linked and the UI should reflect that.

Khaki Octopus Sorry for the confusion there! The investment account data is handled differently by financial institution, so we only expect that initial starting balance to import. A UI change to clarify that in the app is a great suggestion. Can you submit a Feature Request to let our Product Team know? They'd love to hear more about what you'd like to see!

Nicole A better idea for Investment accounts would be to import the current balance every time and automatically make an adjustment transaction.

dakinemaui This! Simple. Straightforward. If the software can see the current balance when first linking it, why can't it see that again and make an adjustment periodically? 

That Mike Guy I've said this repeatedly and had an extended conversation with support advocating for it. They just don't care.

They do not understand that the whole purpose of software is to automate tedious and error prone processes. I always get a not-so-veiled attitude that says "you should be doing this by hand so that you remain in control of your finances. Look at our reconcile feature -- it's easy to use!"

Totally tone deaf -- they can pull balance (as you mentioned, starting balance is accurate), adjusting automatically at every sync for tracking accounts would be really easy to implement. Just ignore ledger transactions in those accounts. Done and done.

But I am pretty sure the creators dislike the very idea of direct import. They think it makes you too passive in your own finances. So they've trained support to make you feel like you're doing something wrong if you're not willing to enter the data yourself. They do not stand by the direct import feature (that they actively market on their website) and will not offer any form of subscription extension or credit, even if it stops working because they changed their provider.

For the premium dollars they ask for this software, I would expect some basic things to actually work (like tracking linked account balances), and for their support to be superb and trained to bend over backwards to make sure users are happy.

That's not this company.

Gold Router That hands-on versus direct import argument is invalid for tracking accounts.

dakinemaui Gold RouterThat Mike Guy  It's a great suggestion, and improvements to the tracking account handling aren't outside the realm of possibilities. It varies by import partner and the product we use. We're focused on the budget side and importing for "cash " type accounts—including checking, savings, and credit cards for the immediate future, but will continue to see where we can improve!

Nicole 

It might help if you

I want to know if you or someone there could explain how it is technically difficult to just check a balance for a tracking account when it obviously is able to check it when first linking to the account. 

We keep going around in circles here and I'm not sure if you think we are asking for full tracking of transactions and interest, etc. 

Can you tell us explicitly how Ynab can see the current balance when initially linking but can't check it after that? That might help. 

Nicole I don't think it varies by import partner.

We are suggesting you ignore 100% of the transactions they present to you on tracking accounts.

Complete and total disregard of transactions that is uniform across partners.

You grab starting balance just fine -- use it over and over and over again.

Its clearly not a priority for you guys, and that's both our point and concern. You shouldn't have a half-baked and misleading feature.

YNAB does not have a culture of owning its mistakes or taking responsibility for its problems. It's driving users away.

And forget investments for a second -- loans don't work right either. Most of your users are trying to manage their debts, and we are relying on the liabilities to have an accurate view of our situations.

It took about four months before I realized that my transfers to loan accounts didn't have an interest charge -- YNAB was lying to me about my loan balances.

It's not acceptable. 

Gold Router agreed, r/ynab is full of people sharing when their net worth stops being negative, and one of the three reports YNAB gives is net worth. Plus seeing your progress on paying down your debt is likely to help you stick with it.

Hi That Mike Guy and Gold Router ! Sorry for the delay here!

Direct import currently isn't designed to continuously pull the starting balance - just the opposite. When an account is linked, we only pull in the starting balance for the first transaction. After that, YNAB doesn't look at the account balance again when importing - it only looks at transactions since the starting balance and how those have affected the balance. That's why investment and loan accounts aren't expected to work, because transactions are reported differently in those accounts and thus don't import the same as a Checking or Savings account. 

I do like the idea of pulling the current balance and then automatically creating a balance adjustment, but currently, that can only be done manually - like this.

We're continuously working to improve direct import but, as you can see from our status page, supporting the Direct Import feature as we have it now is an ongoing struggle for us. We're truly focused on improving the connections we do have now before we open this up to more options - and that includes both the possibility of supporting international accounts and building out a separate function specifically for loan or investment accounts.

You can submit a Feature Request to let our Product Team know you'd like to see this option, but the road to improving direct import is a long one. 

Hi Orchid Lobster ! It's something on our Direct Import partner's radar, and we're looking to make improvements there. Currently, our partner is only able to provide your current starting balance — or only certain types of transactions for most investment and loan accounts.

Since investment and loan account balances are Tracking accounts (with little daily activity), and don't affect your budget—you can create a balance adjustment like this, to make those match! And then you should find that Net Worth report more accurate. 😀

Let me know if you have any questions!

Hi Green Griffin !

Thank you for weighing in here! 

Since the data for investment/loan accounts is handled differently than that of checking/savings/CC accounts, these accounts have always proven a bit difficult when it comes to direct import. We’re currently looking into ways of improving that handling on this end, and we won't give up! As of now though, if the transactions import incorrectly (or don’t import at all), that’s expected behavior.

With that said, we certainly understand the motivation for tracking your net worth, so here's an easy way to manage them without direct import:

1. Use Scheduled Transactions to show your regular contributions or payments. Or, if you have a lot of activity in the account, give File-Based Importing a try in the web app!
2. Update the balance like this as it changes, as frequently as you wish.

I know manual steps may seem tedious, but they're currently the only way to keep some Tracking accounts up to date. Let me know if you have any questions at all! 

Gold Router I have tracked my net worth in YNAB for 10 years but it does require a little work. I don't link any of my tracking accounts but I link all of my budget accounts. For my mortgage, I add an offsetting interest payment each month. Both the mortgage payment and interest payment are scheduled transactions. I found a way to calculate what my interest payments would be each month and I enter a years worth of scheduled transactions at a time. So I only need to do that once a year. Good luck.

Gold Router Either the starting balance is off (which can be effectively fixed with a reconciliation adjustment or manual edit of that transaction), OR the bank is not providing the correct information (not ynab's fault).

dakinemaui I don't deny it can be fixed by manually adjusting it -- but why should I have to do several calculations across 12 brokerage and 4 loan accounts every month when computers could be programmed to do that work?

The starting balance was pulled correctly. The "payments" on a loan show as inflow, but a portion of that inflow is interest. I don't need transactions in tracking accounts. I need YNAB to use that "starting balance" logic every time it syncs. Ignore the transactions. Just report the total account value on every date it polls. Keep the history for the charts. Suddenly, it's useful information without forcing the user to complete totally unnecessary chores.

Stock purchases and sales also just show up naively as inflow and outflow. But the account value, not the cash balance, was the "starting balance" in the accounts. Account value makes sense. Track it over time. No need to get bogged down by syncing and making sense of transactions in asset or secured liability accounts.

Superbone True about the budgeting focus but the current state is so bad because it is misleading. I don't want to see a full fledged tracking of every sale of stock or tracking of all asset values within a fund or whatever Quicken does. Just an added adjustment transaction at the frequency chosen (weekly or daily) would be fine. Shoot. I can do that manually by unlinking and relinking right now so clearly that capability is within easy reach. 

That Mike Guy 

Exactly. It would be better to not link the accounts at all. But they are "tracking" accounts that are linked to track. And it can't event track the balance. It's misleading and broken.

The feature should be done right or not at all. And I do not accept the premise that what they are doing meets any sane definition of right.

That Mike Guy Sure, that would be great. And from what I've read, they're working toward that. I currently keep mine unlinked and update the balance once at the end of each month. If DI would do that, fantastic! I'm all for it. In fact, let's all put in that feature request.

Feature Requests

Superbone I did my part. My request is in. The more that follow suit, the better.

Superbone These features don't fit in with their target demographic for feature improvements per another thread.

nolesrule Can you link to that thread? I'm curious where the discussion went. I'm wondering if the issue was going down the path of what Quicken does (or did, I haven't used it for years) where it tracks every stock sale, dividend, interest calculation, etc.). The sentiment here is that a simple update to the balance is all that is wanted. It doesn't seem like it could be so hard to do. 

BTW, I approve of your username. 

Superbone I submitted my feature request!

Jan Nedelka Checking accounts should update via Direct Import, whether they're set up as Tracking or Budget accounts. If they're not, please fill out this form and our Direct Import team will help you get things back up and running.

I will check in on this, but I believe with Plaid, there's no way for us to decide which institutions are enabled or disabled on our side, so we're not able to prevent you from linking an investment or loan account that isn't currently able to import. I know that can be misleading, and I'm going to see whether we can clarify things there.

Matthew Thanks very much - after making the post, I did chat with support, and they're investigating the checking account that's not updating.

While I'm sympathetic to being held hostage to a vendor's capacities, at the end of the day, it's YNAB's brand and functionality that customers are paying for. So any inconsistency or appearance of bugs falls on YNAB, not Plaid 😕.

A middling solution might be to replace the checkmark icon with a different icon maybe a 🚫or a sparkline or something. Since this discussion implies that YNAB can tell if an account type can be properly updated or not, then there could be a visual designation for 'linked but transactions will not be imported/value us not accurate', and a tooltip could explain that if the icon was hovered over.

Superbone Fair point, I hadn't considered it through the net worth lens. And it is really nice to be able to track that over time. In the end, I think we're in agreement that linking implies a benefit that isn't there - so better not to create false expectations.

I've found Mint to be the best shot at a net worth snapshot - it's not great at much, but it's a solid aggregator for a price that's hard to beat. Mint's only mediocre at tracking it over the long term, it seems to vomit and break something every couple of years. For forecasting I just use a homebrew spreadsheet, which I also pop the debt/net worth numbers into monthly to track them over the long term. But I totally get it that that's more fooling around or an awkwardly fragmented system than others might want.

Jan Nedelka Yes, to me, net worth is the number 1 scorecard when it comes to one's finances. And I love being able to see it month to month over time going way back. YNAB allows me to have this but with a little bit of work. (FYI, the toolkit net worth report is even better!)

I have tried Mint and Personal Capital but like you said, it only tracks the current value and not over time. Plus, I still have to request codes for 2FA so I might as well visit each tracked account once a month where I can review more info about my account as well as get the current balance.

Silver Stallion Tracking accounts, by definition, don't figure into spending decisions, which is the main purpose of YNAB. Can you elaborate on what are you gaining by having them? Have you considered not having them and saving yourself the maintenance effort?

I mean, their sole purpose is to provide a balance. Often the exact same balance is available from a bank statement.

There's no mention of it in the Up Next page, so I very much doubt it's being worked on.

dakinemaui it would just be nice to have all of my balances available, up to date, in one place, and not have to check for them separately on other sites. I'm not sure what the point of the tracking accounts is if they're not going to... track the balance. true it doesn't really affect my budget, but it's just odd that YNAB is able to pull in the starting balance but not keep it updated, even if it was once a day or once a week, that would be cool.

Silver Stallion sadly, it's a matter of priority on YNAB's part. This is the best tool currently available, IMHO, but the glacial pace of improvement to areas that confuse many new users is... disappointing.

Gold Router seconded. I’ve used Plaid before and the account balances are just a single API call away. Crazy this company prefers all this trouble and frustration rather than devoting a day of dev time to add something basic like this.

Gold Router Great question! The integrations aren't built to support the data for investment and loan accounts. I agree we have room for improvement! Making the full financial picture easier to manage is one many YNABers would love. Our Product team would love your insight. The budget side, and accounts that impact your daily spending are our primary focus at this time—but we always have new things up our sleeve.

Here's an example our importing team shared, for a little background:

If you make a 401k contribution, that amount is first used to purchase cash in your 401k account, and then that cash position is sold (an outflow) to buy funds. The financial institution reports that one cash outflow transaction to us, when of course you’d expect to see an inflow.

Nicole I'm not trying to  be a troublemaker on the forums, but I'm subscribed to this thread and updates keep popping up in my inbox – I think it's important to make a note of the ongoing problem here. 

I don't think your answer is relevant to what people have asked for multiple times.

Plaid provides endpoints for investment account balances.

Aside from that, the most basic, beginner's introduction to the Plaid API plain-jane quickstart call to the "account balance" endpoint will return current and available balances for credit, loan, depository, and investment accounts, where the current balance is the total value of assets as presented by the institution. That's all anyone is asking for.

It's disappointing and honestly a little weird that for 2 years the YNAB response to this issue consists of 1.) pretending financial account balances would serve no purpose in a money tracking app, or 2.)  citing technical limitations that don't actually exist.

Just spread the cost of the upgraded contract with Plaid into some kind of YNAB premium option that retrieves investment account balances once a day or so, I'd pay for that. If there's no plan to do anything like that just remove that section altogether. Thanks.

Nicole  please, please, please schedule some time with a technical product manager and review the idea in this thread with them. Even better if an actual engineer is present. Coral Mixer  has a very succinct problem statement and proposed solution.

Something is getting lost in translation, and the result is you have failed to fix an easy bug for over two years.

Coral Mixer No trouble at all! Apologies for the delay, I was out last week. We use the Transactions product from Plaid which does not include that endpoint, and we work with a second provider, MX, to consider as well.

Our team is currently working on bringing Debt Management to the app, and a piece of that is improving how the balances of debt accounts are updated. This will help get us closer to what you, and many in the thread are looking for. We're approaching it from a few different angles, but it will take time to explore.

When you mentioned removing the section, do you mean to remove the option for a Linked account when creating a tracking account? Or something else?

Navy Blue Hammerhead depends on your definition of impractical. I update at my 13 investment accounts manually at the end of every month and it works just fine. I don't need to focus on the day to day values because that's just a distraction, and the report doesn't support day to day values anyway, just monthly. 🤷‍♂️