Moving from Mvelopes ...

Greetings,

 

I am in the process of evaluating YNAB as long time Mvelopes user..

I am in good talks with support but can anyone else who has made this transition share their experience?

I would say that I like the Mvelopes approach but I am finding that my old habits are quite entrenched. 

I can see that I may have to give up a few things that I am used to. I am willing to change may ways but since my current system is quite entrenched the transition is bigger than I thought.  Here are few comments:

1) I live on last months pay. All my current pay goes into the "Income Cash Pool".  Each month I "fund" my envelopes using a saved funding plan. The ICP is now zero until my next paycheque.  I think that I see the same functionality in YNAB.

2) I have a funding plan for the next 12 months.  Mvelopes allows me to essentially have a 12 month budget. This is very handy as I can allocate special months where my income is higher like on those 3 paycheque months.  I like the 12 month view as well along with yearly totals.

In YNAB I see "budget templates" and  assume they are  similar to a funding plan in Mvelopes  for for only a single month.

Also with the YNAB is there feature roadmap that is published that as future subscriber I get a a sense of some of the functionality that might be added?

Any help would be appreciated..

Thanks

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    • Ben
    • Toolkit for YNAB Designer & Developer
    • furiousfalcon
    • 10 mths ago
    • 2
    • Reported - view

    Welcome! I'm not an Mvelopes user, but:

    1) I image that this should work pretty similarly to Mvelopes. All income is categorized as "Inflow: To Be Budgeted", then budgeted out to your categories until the TBB is zero. You can use goals or the quick budget buttons to create a budget template and speed up the budgeting process: https://www.youneedabudget.com/how-to-create-a-budget-template/

    2) YNAB only has the single month view (you won't be able to see all 12 months on one screen), but you can budget out as far ahead as you need to.

    Two things to note, though:

    -- You can budget ahead as far as you like, but you need to have something budgeted in the previous month (just a single cent, for example) before the next month becomes available for budgeting. If you want to budget for Feb 2019, you have to have something budgeted in Jan first. I believe this is to prevent you "losing" money by budgeting it out to a super-far month and then forgetting about it.

    -- YNAB is focused on the money you have in your possession right now, and generally asks that you don't budget out future money that you expect but don't have yet. Basically, it doesn't want you to make questionable current financial decisions based on a potentially incorrect or an overly positive financial picture. If you want to budget for December 2019 and have that money available, great! But YNAB won't allow you (at least, not without a big negative To Be Budgeted number and a much murkier understanding of your current financial picture) to forecast that month's budget with money you don't have in your possession. When you budget money in YNAB, it's with the understanding that the money in your budget is available in your accounts right now.

    3) YNAB has a somewhat irregularly updated roadmap that lists some of the things they are tackling in the near future. In general, YNAB has been hesitant to provide a more complex roadmap because development timelines or priorities may change and they don't want to underpromise / overdeliver. https://www.youneedabudget.com/up-next/

    Reply Like 2
      • Ben
      • Toolkit for YNAB Designer & Developer
      • furiousfalcon
      • 10 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Ben - Oops, meant "overpromise / underdeliver" in #3.

      Reply Like
  • Beige, I am doing the same thing, trying this out compared to Mvelopes. I am  also a long time user, probably 12 years or more, but they are so slow to make changes.I do exactly the same thing with Mvelopes, I am basically a month ahead, I let all my paychecks accrue in the ICP and then Fund the next months envelopes with a saved funding plan. YNAB is not making total sense to me either. With Mvelopes you can budget money in envelopes each month for quarterly bills, but in ynab when I go to change the money available for a particular budgeted item, it changes the budgeted amount for the month also. I am trying this out along side using my mvlelopes, not sure I am going to be able to figure it out though. Definitely noticed ynab is not clunky like Mvelopes ( the current version). The beta 5 feels Mvelopes seems much smoother, but they have been working on that over a year and it's still in beta. They said hopefully this February it would finally launch, but we will have to wait and see.

    Reply Like 1
    • Hi Turquoise Mask !

      The Budgeted column shows how much you've set aside for a particular category in the current month. When you increase the Budgeted amount, the Available amount goes up as well. There isn't a way to add funds to the Budgeted column without increasing the Available amount because that would mean the math in your budget is incorrect.

      Is there a certain reason you're looking for that option? There may be a better way to accomplish what you're aiming for here. :)

      Reply Like
    • Faness with Mvelopes, say you have $30, for gas, left over in your envelope, from December. When I fund January's envelope with $130 I would have a total of $160 to spend. Maybe that's how YNAB will work after I use it more than one month. I suppose just starting out this month in YNAB I would fund the gas budget with $160, correct?

      Reply Like 1
    • Turquoise Mask 

      Hi , I have only been using it for a bit more than 2 weeks, but for example in my fuel category I had $5 left not spent in December and when I added $25 to start January it said my available was $30 so I think it's working the way you would like.  

      Reply Like 1
    • Turquoise Mask That's exactly right and exactly how it works! If you have $30 left over at the end of the month, then you'll only need to budget $130 to bring it back up to $160. Once the month rolls over, you should see things start to fall in place. :)

      Reply Like
      • Rita W.
      • ritapavlovna
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Mask  I am in the same boat. I've been using mvelopes for a little over a year. It has helped me a ton with managing my money, I was awful about it before. But you are so right, the website is so clunky. The interface could be improved drastically and I feel like it sticks a lot. My biggest issue right now is my checking account has not been linked for over a week. I submitted a ticket, followed by an email and finally a phone call, where I ended up leaving a message. No one has contacted me to fix it! So here I am with every thing fully linked to ynab but its challenging to switch to the ynab method. I really liked the funding plan concept but I find I am not making as much progress as I'd like. We will see what happens after 34 days on ynab I guess! Hope you are successful.

      Reply Like
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Tomato Banjo please sign up for the classes. I skipped those,  tried to teach myself, but understanding the thinking behind the 4 rules is important. 

      Reply Like
      • Rita W.
      • ritapavlovna
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Ben K. Thanks. I definitely would like to do that. Hopefully the classes are a little more straight forward. I found some of the youtube videos to be more confusing because of the long winded analogies. If you have any courses you recommend let me know!

      Reply Like
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 9 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Tomato Banjo I've taken like 8 of them. The best part is you get to ask questions, ask early so your not at the end of the list. I don't think there's a best one.  The major hurdle, I was close to a mvelopes user long story, was the change in thinking. Good luck! 

      Reply Like 1
    • Turquoise Mask version 5 of Mvelopes actually seems worse than v4 to me.  The big graphics like blocks take up so much screen space that you can't even get a good picuture of things.  

      Reply Like
      • Beige Yeti
      • Beige_Yeti.9
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Rita W. I found Nick True’s videos on YouTube really helpful for getting started.

      Reply Like
  • I'm too am a current (almost former) Mvelopes user looking for a new budget home. My wife and I get paid semi-monthly (1st and 15th) . Switching from an envelopes based program to a first come first serve program (at least that is how I perceive it) is giving me great anxiety, not sure why. Any words of advice are appreciated. 

    Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Ozarkham each category in YNAB is an envelope. It is your job to figure out how to distribute your income into your various envelopes. But you can only distribute the money you actually have. It is like the original envelope system when people would cash their paychecks and sit down with a pile of envelopes and divvy it all out until there was no more money on the table. 

      Reply Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 9 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

        Ozarkham , your perception is off. YNAB is a zero sum based envelope budgeting system. First come, first served? No, you decide what your priorities are and how to divide up your income into categories (envelopes). And if you don’t get it quite right on your first try? Move funds from one category to another. (Rule 3, Roll with the Punches.) Relax and give it some time. You will learn to love it. There is no better way to maximize your income.

      Reply Like 1
  • Same here - Mvelopes user since 2011 (and Microsoft Money before that until they shut it down).  Seriously evaluating YNAB after seeing the disaster that v5 was last week.  I'm thankfully rolled back to v4 so I can figure out a better system.

    I think we are looking for a funding plan, which is what Mvelopes has.  I take my monthly spending plan (aka budget in my world) at the beginning of the month and determine how to allocate each paycheck over the month, depending on when certain bills are due.  How does YNAB help with that planning approach?

    I do see that I can set up scheduled transactions, which is really helpful.  Do those then move into budget categories (to be funded) on those dates?  How do they match with actual transactions when they come in?  

    I also see the concept of setting up goals.  This makes perfect sense for those expenditures that aren't monthly.  How does setting goals work on for monthly expenses?  Do you reset the same goal each month?  How is that tracked when the month rolls to the next one?  It seems like this goal concept would also help with those erratic spending months by making me think about them ahead of time and plan for them.  

    There are many features that I see so far that I think will be better than Mvelopes, so I'm looking forward to digging in and learning about YNAB.  

    Reply Like
      • Ozarkham
      • Coral_Deer.2
      • 9 mths ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Just Joan  since my last post I’ve become a real YNAB fan, especially their mobile app which is awesome. I will tell you I had to rearrange my thinking. My wife and I get paid twice a month. With Mvelopes I divided every bill in half and funded the envelopes accordingly. I kept on trying to force YNAB to do this and finally came to the conclusion it doesn’t do it that way. I then laid out my bills by date due. Putting that date in the category name really helps. I then fund only the bills due in that pay cycle. Money left over goes into the categories in the next cycle. That’s about as far as I’ve gotten.

      Changing my budgeting approach gave me a lot of anxiety at first.  The term “budgeted” kept on tripping me up. I see it more of an allocation as it deals with present and not really the future. The goals section really helps seeing where you’re headed and is the real compass to the program.  but YNAB method so far has given me more control over my immediate money and where i want to be in the future which is a good feeling. 

      Reply Like 6
      • Just Joan
      • just_joan
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Ozarkham  that’s a great idea!  I saw a different category name hack to add your monthly planned to the name so you can see if you end up moving money because you spent more.   

      I’ve got the app too, and like it so far.  I’m looking forward to when I can spend a few hours on this later in the week. 

      Reply Like
      • Just Joan
      • just_joan
      • 9 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Ozarkham I just listened to the Budgeting workshop on YouTube and that answered a lot of questions. I saw that date-in-the-category idea in action!  

      I’m definitely switching.  I can see how user friendly this is (and which other workshops I need to listen to). Just need to sort out getting my data from Mvelopes. 

      Reply Like 1
    • Hi Just Joan  — you said you‘re used to taking your monthly spending plan (i.e. budget) and planning that out...  Me too!  I’ve been using YNAB effectively  just a few months now...  But as others have said, YNAB is about cash in hand...  I was struggling with this concept and found a tip somewhere on the forum that i started using...  One of YNAB‘s strengths seems to be flexibility in making the process our own.

      I get paid bi-weekly so the dates never align with the month. Here‘s how I‘m getting my full monthly income into YNAB, even before I‘m paid, to budget the full months expenses:

           - I setup a new budget category:  Paychecks Expected

          - on the 1st of the month, I add up my paychecks coming in and enter that as a negative amount...  Warning: This budget category will always be red / over-budget to the extent of future income and so I always have the message, 1 category over-budget. 

          - this drives my TBB (to be budgeted) up to cover all income for the month

          - i budget until TBB is zero and my month‘s spending is covered.   (Income Expected remains red/over-budget at the total amount of all my paychecks in the coming month)

        - when i get paid, the income goes to the Income Expected category rather than TBB.  So after the last paycheck, Income Expected is now also at zero. 

      I found i had to take this super slow to get my head around this, but now that it‘s in place I‘m comfortable with knowing i have the month covered. For sure this is a process - I‘m thinking that at some point in the future (a year out?) my finances will be such that I don‘t need to do this...  but for now, this is where I‘m at...  

      Good luck! :-)

      Reply Like 2
      • satcook
      • satcook
      • 9 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Alice Blue Sidewinder this suggestion means you can never trust your category balance in YNAB as they are backed by money you don’t have so you run the risk of overdrafting. It also means all of your reports are incorrect as you are inflowing money straight to a category and not TBB. 

      Reply Like 2
    • satcook  you‘re right -  I do have to purposefully spend only what‘s in my Accounts, not my Budget.  It also means I can‘t budget months ahead — but I need to learn patience, go slowly, budget a month and let it happen for now anyways...  my money aging is in days during these baby-step budgeting days. 

       As for the reporting - there‘s no spend reporting in the app anyways. So that option’s not available to me...  (I don‘t have a PC and only work on the app — I‘ve entered feature requests for the app to reconcile and provide spend reporting. I truly don‘t get why they think people have to be dependent on a PC in this day and age.  And I’m not about to go spend money on a laptop just so i can budget. The browser on iPad forces you into the app - sigh of disappointment)

      I do think that in the future I‘ll be transitioning away from this, but this is what i need for now...  It made me waaaaaay too nervous to not be able to plan the month...  So when i saw someone else doing this, it made sense for me. For the first time, I feel like I have control over my money...  The priority for me in these baby-step budgeting days is to plan the month out.  I suspect that once my debt is paid off and my money starts aging, I‘ll be able to let this go. For now, this is what I need...  

      Thanks for the callouts...  

      Reply Like
      • WordTenor
      • Arranged the menu, the venue, the seating.
      • WordTenor
      • 9 mths ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Alice Blue Sidewinder  I might suggest having two budgets if you feel the need to hold on to fake income to see the whole month. That way you can use the YNAB method in one budget, and harness the power of using your categories to guide your spending, but still see your whole plan laid out in another budget that you can switch to with just a click or two. 

      The category spending is why YNAB is so killer. Dragging out the expected income/slap myself for being bad kind of budget just delays your ability to experience the level of success you’ll have using the method. 

      Reply Like 5
    • Alice Blue Sidewinder That is a great idea!

      Reply Like
  • Another question:  can I backdate when my transactions are pulling from my accounts so I can start from Jan 1st?  Or is my only option to manually enter those transactions so I have a complete year for 2019?

    Reply Like
      • TheTabby
      • Just a common cat trying to budget uncommonly well.
      • TheTabby
      • 9 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Just Joan Now that you've been importing, I'm not sure.  If you open a new account and set the "opening balance" date to 12/31/18, it'll import everything since then.  You'll have to go through and re-categorize everything though.

      Reply Like 2
    • Hi Just Joan !

      We don't suggest going too far into the past, but you can import those past transactions.

      After linking an account, if you decide to import past transactions (since the first of the month, for example) you can change the date of the starting balance transaction. You will also need to adjust the amount of the starting balance.

      Let me know if you have any other questions, I'm happy to help! :)

      Reply Like
      • Just Joan
      • just_joan
      • 9 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness  and  TheTabby thank you for your input on this.  I wouldn't mind doing this because it would give me a complete calendar year for 2019.  I'm relieved to know it's possible! 

      Reply Like
  • We used Mvelopes for about 10 years before switching to YNAB. We love how smooth YNAB is and how quickly needed updates happen. But, there is some functionality we greatly miss from Mvelopes, to the point where I am holding out hope they fix the V5 bugs so we can go back (we're Mvelopes lifetime members). For example, I loved having our budget built in Mvelopes and being able to track when an envelope was funded or see the trail of moving money between envelopes. With YNAB, we have to keep a separate budget spreadsheet and track how much of it we have funded during the month. It's just more work.

    Reply Like 1
  • I am also struggling to get used to YNAB coming from Mvelopes.  V5 of Mvelopes blew my mind so much that I have almost lost hope in it (all but they will allow you to revert back to v4 if you prefer).  I am currently using Mvelopes, GoodBudget, and YNAB trying to see what works best.  GoodBudget is a lot like Mvelopes but all transactions must be entered manually.  YNAB is so much smoother and never seems to have the glitches that are daily in Mvelopes.  Mvelopes, however, has the best setup for planning ahead really knowing where you stand financially, overall.  I really wish that someone at YNAB could do a workshop to help all us Mvelopes fans train our brains to work with YNAB.  I have watched all the video tutorials, attended how to setup YNAB workshopes, etc. but the concept of YNAB is just so different from Mvelopes that I feel lost.

    Reply Like
    • Purple Snow Yes, I was just wondering if Mvelopes will survive, after the mass exodus with the introduction of v5. I was reading the reviews, in the Apple App Store, and people are just disgusted with Mvelopes right now. Hope they can turn it around!

      Reply Like
    • Hi Purple Snow !

      Welcome to YNAB! :)

      The best intro to the YNAB method is the Learn the Four Rules workshop. YNAB’s Four Rules are at the heart of everything we do. With those in mind, I think it'll help turn your Mvelopes way of thinking. :)

      Reply Like
      • Rick
      • Mvelopes to YNAB Convert
      • ricka47
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Mask 

      It's such a shame what they've done to Mvelopes.  I've been a happy Lifetime Member for a long time and just started using YNAB yesterday.  I like the interface and the fact that some of the things that they took away in V5 are here.   But, the basic envelope system is what I liked about Mvelopes and having been using it via software or paper for many years.

      We'll see if I end up staying after the trial period us up.  But, at this point, I'm just very frustrated with Mvelopes and what they did to it after all of these years.

      Reply Like
  • Another Mvelopes ExPat here.  I've been in YNAB for about 2 months now, and I still am feeling a bit off my game.  I still miss the paycheck profiles, and the ability to track envelope to envelope transfer history.  However, I think I will stick with YNAB because the age of money metric is intriguing.  I think it also gives me a clearer picture of what I actually have.  I thought that I was budgeted a month in advance with Mvelopes, but once I switched to YNAB, I realized I was still living paycheck to paycheck for things like groceries and fuel.  I want to get ahead of ALL of my expenses.  

    The think that is giving me the most heartburn right now is the "Roll with the punches" rule.  When I have a surplus on a category that has a Monthly funding goal - there does not seem to be a good way to transfer that money to another category without the app yelling at me to fund more money.  I don't understand why I can't use the excess without messing with my funding goal?  Mvelopes did not link these concepts at all.  

    Reply Like 2
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 7 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti btw, I'm 4 mth user coming from the grandfather or maybe great grandfather of Mvelopes, called Crown Money Map Financial Software. 

      Reply Like
      • TheTabby
      • Just a common cat trying to budget uncommonly well.
      • TheTabby
      • 7 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti A few thoughts:

      Age of Money is... intriguing.  I'll give you that.  I'm afraid I don't find it to be particularly useful though.  Maybe I just don't understand what it's for though.  Okay, ignore this paragraph, it has no purpose.

      Roll with the Punches is permission to adjust to things as they happen, because sooner or later, life happens, and you have to adjust something.  Think of it as institutionalized grace for the fact that you don't have future sight and therefore can't actually plan for every single thing the time that it actually happens.

      Your frustration with your monthly funding goals and your wish for tracking of inter-category transfers are actually linked together.  Because YNAB doesn't track inter-category transfers, it doesn't realize that you DID fully fund your Thingamabobs category before you moved some of the extra over to Widgets.

      Personally, I got annoyed enough with categories turning orange for little to no reason (by which I specifically mean because I didn't meet the monthly funding goals, or I did, but then moved money later in the month) I've removed all of my monthly funding goals.  The only ones I use are target amount and target amount by date.

      Reply Like 2
    • TheTabby I agree with your analysis,  which is why I'm considering removing the funding goals myself.   I'm toying with the idea of just using recurring transactions as a guide for monthly funding. 

      Reply Like
    • Khaki Storm
    • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
    • Khaki_Storm.1
    • 7 mths ago
    • Reported - view
    Orange Yeti said:
    there does not seem to be a good way to

     Don't know why, but clicking on the category dollar amount, typing in the amount to move, and selecting the category to move it to, seems to work best for me without affecting the TBB number and metrics. However, I was first trying to simply subtract say change amount budgeted from 50 to 40 from one category and add  it to another, say 0 to 10 and sometimes it was fine and other times the TBB went negative, or the credit card balance changed, and other weird stuff. 

    Reply Like
    • Ben Khaki Storm It's not the TBB number that's the issue, it's that the category I move money from is now no longer fully funded according to my goal, even though I'm ONLY moving the excess that rolled over from the previous month. 

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 7 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti Because the goal criterion is "monthly funding goal", and if you move money out of that category, you're reducing the amount of money you've funded for the month. It makes sense to me.

      Reply Like 1
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 7 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti I have a chrome extension called Toolkit for YNAB enabled, and one of the options I use colors the "unmet goal" bubbles blue instead of orange. It is less stressful that way. I already know I changed my mind about that goal, so orange is an excessively strong warning color to use on it 🙂

      Reply Like 2
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 7 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      adriana01 I do agree on that point, and use that myself.

      Reply Like
    • bevocat I don't get it, because I did already fund for the month.  What I'm trying to move is the excess money.  

      Reply Like
    • adriana01 It doesn't seem like changing the color should be necessary, because I already met the goal, I just want to use the excess elsewhere.

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 7 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti By moving the money you have no longer met the goal, and that's what YNAB is telling you.

      Reply Like 2
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 7 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti  It sounds like you want a "fund x a month until the balance is y", but all YNAB offers is "fund x a month", "fund enough to get to y by date" and "target balance y". These goals don't fit all circumstances, so we've learned to either live with the color or find a different way to track how much we want to budget to a category each month. 

      Reply Like 2
      • Orange Yeti
      • Orange_Yeti.1
      • 7 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      adriana01 Thanks for the perspective.  I guess I'm trying to put a round peg in a square goal (chuckle).  I'm considering forgoing the goals altogether, since it seems to complicate things.  

      Reply Like 1
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 7 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      adriana01 People have been asking for that goal type to be added for 3+ years.

      Reply Like 4
    • Orange Yeti The work-around I use is to move the money in the previous month. Then I don't have the underfunded signal staring at me. So if my monthly funding goal for groceries is $400 and at the end of March I have $42 left in the category, I move the money in March then fund $400 at the beginning of April. The way YNAB does the math on a monthly funding goal is based on the amount budgeted (far left column) not the category balance (right column)

      Reply Like 2
      • adriana01
      • adriana01
      • 7 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I know, I'm one of them who has submitted it (probably multiple times....that form is a black hole) :)

      Reply Like 1
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 7 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      lebdavidson2 It doesn't matter.  It'll still be there... waiting. (bonus points for anybody who gets that reference)

      Reply Like
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 7 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti yep, that happens too

      Reply Like
    • bevocat I understand that the money is there either way. But if I do the moving around in the previous month, the warnings show in the previous month. That way I can work with my current month and not see the "underfunded" color coding. 

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 7 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      lebdavidson2 Oh, I know, and I like your idea very much! I'll probably use it myself, should the occasion call for it.

      Reply Like
  • Orange Yeti said:
     I don't get it, because I did already fund for the month.

     Let's say the funding goal was $100 which you funded. But now you realize you have $25 too much so you move that to another category. Well by moving the $25 you have reduced the funding for that month to $75. $75 is less than $100 so you did not meet the funding goal.

    Reply Like
    • jenmas I still don't understand because that $25 was carried forward from the previous month.  I funded the $100.  Now I should be able to do whatever with that $25.  

      Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 7 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti - the only way you can move money out of a category is to enter a negative amount in the budget column (left column) - this is what happens even if you use the move money tool and don't touch the left column. So even if you budgeted 0 this month, if want to reduce the available balance by 25, you must enter -25 in the left column (granted if you use the move money tool, all you do is say move $25 to Category X, but YNAB does this by entering -25 in the left column).

      Reply Like
    • jenmas I think the fog is starting to clear now.  I expect the money to be debited from the available column, but it's actually coming from the budgeted column.  Even understanding that, it seems counter intuitive.  Totally opposite to what I would expect.  

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 7 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti They are, in fact, linked. You decrease the amount in the available column by subtracting it from the budgeted column.  If you add money to the budgeted column, the reverse is true, and you will see the available column has increased.

      Reply Like 1
    • bevocat I guess what I didn't expect is that adjusting the budgeted amount is the ONLY way to update the available column.  

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 7 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti It isn't. Spending activity modifies the available column without touching the budgeted column.

      Reply Like 1
    • bevocat moving money also affects the available column. 

      Example you had $50 roll over in a category and you budget an extra $100. You now have $150 available. If you decide to move that $50 to another category, it will lower your available to $100 while leaving your budget at $100 as well.

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 7 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Captain Taniele No. That is not correct. When you do the move money, it will lower your available to $100 and lower your budgeted amount to $50, just as I said above. I just did it again to verify.

      Adding/removing money to/from your budgeted column adjusts your available column. Adding/removing money to/from your available column via the move money tool adjusts your budgeted column.

      Spending transactions (or returns categorized to the spending category) affect the available column, but not the budgeted column.

      Reply Like
    • bevocat said:
      Spending activity modifies the available column without touching the budgeted column.

      bevocat Yes, but that's not in the context of the "roll with the punches" adjustments we are talking about here.

      Reply Like
  • A monthly funding goal means how much is added (budgeted) in that month. It is based on the number in the left column. There are a number of workarounds possible. The one I usually use is in my reply above. 

    Reply Like 2
    • lebdavidson2 thanks - that seems to work, except now it says I didn't fully fund the previous month.  *sigh*.  

      Reply Like
    • Orange Yeti  That's the expected behavior. The goal function is not as sophisticated as you imagine it is. It is not at all tied to what you have spent. A monthly funding goal is not at all related to what total amount you have in the category. If the number budgeted this month (left column) is less than your goal number, the program gives you a warning. I prefer to stick the warning in the previous month so I don't have to look at it in my day-to-day budget work. 

      Reply Like
    • lebdavidson2  Yeah, I'm starting to understand money moves from the budgeted column, not the available balance per category.  It's counter intuitive, but I understand. 

      Reply Like
  • Orange Yeti said:
    and the ability to track envelope to envelope transfer history. 

     That's what I miss most about Mvelopes.  I wish I could see what has happened to the budgeted amount after it gets into the category.  If I could see a history, I might remember why I borrowed some from a certain category, and then know if I wanted or didn't want to add more this month.

    But Welcome to YNAB.  I've been here about as long as you, and I'm definitely staying.

    Reply Like 1
      • Orange Yeti
      • Orange_Yeti.1
      • 7 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Bruce Yeah, I would love to have that feature back.  But there are soo many other frustrating things about Mvelopes, and v5 just tipped me over.  YNAB comes highly recommended, so I'm going all in.  

      Reply Like 1
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 7 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Orange Yeti Yes, V5 is what pushed me over the edge too. It's been a couple months now, and I've never looked back. I'm totally loving YNAB.

      Reply Like 1
      • Rick
      • Mvelopes to YNAB Convert
      • ricka47
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Bruce I would also like to see the history of moving money from one category to another and did submit a feature request for it.   But, compared to all the things now missing from Mvelopes V5 that is a minor concern at this point.

      Reply Like 1
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Rick as a follow on, I've not seen any way to trace reconciliation adjustments in YNAB. 

      Reply Like
    • Ben Khaki Storm While you can't trace the movement of money between categories, you can search for balance adjustments in your accounts to see any changes made when reconciling. :)

      Reply Like
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness That's good to know.

      Reply Like
  • Very happy to see so many "mvelopes ex-pats"    I've been an mvelopes user for many years.  Like all of you, loved the concept, hated the shoddy application.  I was very excited to see v5, but then when it totally bombed (after years of waiting and empty promises),  i switched over to ynab a couple of months ago.   Still learning the nuances of this system, but overall very happy with it

    Reply Like 2
  • Also a very long time (Lifetime Member) Mvelopes used who just started with YNAB yesterday.  It's a shame that V5 has forced us out.  I have to wonder what was discussed in the meetings when they decided what to remove from V5 (things like the rules and reconciliation) and to make the interface more challenging to use.

    I'm all set up in YNAB but will use the trial period to see if I will make the switch permanent or stay with Mvelopes and hope that they fix all the things that they broke.

    Reply Like 1
  • I'm also a lifetime MVelopes member since 2010 and am extremely frustrated with the MV5 debacle. I've set up YNAB and think I can change the way I think to get it to work. Even if the put the missing features back into MV5, the YNAB interface is so much cleaner and smoother and the amount of help is so robust that I think I may stay with YNAB.

    Reply Like 3
      • Rick
      • Mvelopes to YNAB Convert
      • ricka47
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      sgarelick I'm with you.  It's only been a few days and I can't see going back.  Mvelopes now feels and looks clunky.  It's also much slower and still missing major functions that it used to have.  

      I with that I hadn't become a lifetime member but never would I have imagined that they would have messed it up as badly as they have done.

      Reply Like 1
      • sgarelick
      • sgarelick
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Rick totally agree. Really sad because I was a huge evangelist for mvelopes over the years. They screwed up big time. 

      Reply Like
      • Rick
      • Mvelopes to YNAB Convert
      • ricka47
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      sgarelick Same here - I've been recommending it for years in classes and individually.  I cannot do that now.  I would like to know what took place in the planning meetings when they decided to take so much functionality out of well-working program.

      Reply Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Rick It sounds like they really screwed up badly. We've seen a max exodus away from Mvelopes in these parts since the change.

      Reply Like
      • Khaki Storm
      • YNAB book topics online: https://support.youneedabudget.com/r/q5w48j
      • Khaki_Storm.1
      • 6 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Superbone which should be a big message to ynab, listen to your users or they will find something else. 

      Reply Like 4
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Ben Khaki Storm Most definitely.

      Reply Like 2
      • Rick
      • Mvelopes to YNAB Convert
      • ricka47
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Ben Khaki Storm Very true - and a lesson to be learned for the competition.  It's a shame what happened to Mvelopes as they had a very good product.  It would be a good (but sad) case study for an MBA class.

      Reply Like 2
  • Reply Like 1
  • Another Mvelopes xpat here.  The disastrous v5 migration started me looking at other alternatives despite their migrating me back to v4.  Loving YNAB so far, although it definitely requires a different way of thinking.  The thing I miss most is being able to create your zero-based budget complete with a funding plan tied to your payperiods/paychecks.  This just made it so simple for us biweekly folks.  On the other hand, the Mvelopes Funding Plans made budgeting and funding so easy it sort of became a "set it and forget it" operation and stopped evaluating my budget each month with the intention it deserves.

    One of the big things I'm really liking in YNAB is that your budgeting is right there alongside your spending (remaining).  In Mvelopes the planning of your budget was sort of removed from the execution of your budget or your spending.  Also, really liking the features for moving money around.  YNAB makes this so easy.

    Finally, I just have to give a shout out to the YNAB training and publication folks.  There training and documentation far exceeds Mvelopes and other Personal Finance vendors.  They seem to do a great job of not just covering the basic, dug-I-already-knew-that, kinds of stuff, but anticipating and covering the tougher scenarios folks hit as they plan and execute their budgets.  Very impressed with YNAB!

    Reply Like 4
  • Decided to make the jump to YNAB 100%!   Love this system, love the web app, love the iOS app, love the community, help and workshops.   

    Went to cancel my Mvelopes subscription (member since 2011), but no Cancel link as described in their help.  Just the sort of thing that's making me jump ship...that should be the simplest thing to do if I so choose!   Gotta' contact their support to cancel my subscription.  

    Anyhow, excited to be a YNABBER!  

    Reply Like 3
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 6 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      jamesx4 Welcome! (From one software engineer to another. 🙂) I've been using YNAB steadily since 2010 (first bought it in 2008 but that's another story) and it has been a life changer. You'll find the forum here is really friendly if you have any questions.

      Reply Like
  • "Also with the YNAB is there feature roadmap that is published that as future subscriber I get a a sense of some of the functionality that might be added?"

    I somewhat new to YNAB  (6 months) and feel it is probably the best product available for my needs right now, but from what I have seen "product development" is not a priority for them. I have seen zero features added in 6 months and most users requests here for changes or improvements that I have seen were met with a response of either A) "we hear, but here is why you are wrong" or B) "We'll add it to our development list, but it is not a priority" (e.g. bank sync outside the U.S.), or both.

    Reply Like
  • For those of you who are Lifetime Mvelopes members who are making the switch to YNAB, what are you doing with your Mvelopes accounts? I don't know if I should cancel my account or just let it sit (since it's a lifetime membership it doesn't cost me anything). Part of me is curiously interested in checking out the application periodically to see what changes they end up making). Any downsides to just leaving the account active?

    Reply Like
      • Bruce
      • Software Engineer
      • Bruce
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      sgarelick I've left mine just sitting there. I haven't touched it in the three months or so since I've joined YNAB, but like you said, there's no charge, so it won't hurt anything. Personally, though, i doubt I'll ever go back. I saw the shortcut to Mvelopes on my browser, and realized I have absolutely no desire to click it and see what, if anything is different.

      Reply Like 1
      • Rick
      • Mvelopes to YNAB Convert
      • ricka47
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Bruce Same here - a Lifetime member with no plan to go back.  I found myself dreading logging on and using V5.  With YNAB, the "chore" of keeping up with things is so much easier and less burdensome.  I'll keep my account.  Who knows, maybe someday there will be V6 which will amaze us all.

      Reply Like 2
  • Bruce Rick It was a slightly hard pill to swallow to start paying for something I haven't paid for in years (YNAB is now a line item in my budget) but I'm glad I moved over. In fact, I wish I would have looked at YNAB years ago, seems so much more thought out and well supported. Good luck in you new YNAB adventures!!

    Reply Like 2
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