Support for YNAB 4 will end October 2019

If you're using the new, web-based version of YNAB, this message does not apply to you.

 

We released YNAB 4 seven years ago, and we’ve loved hearing all of your success stories over the years. YNAB 4 was a great product, and it’s been an honor to be able to support it far longer than we anticipated. However, Apple recently announced its newest Operating System, called Catalina, will not support 32-bit apps.

YNAB 4 is most definitely a 32-bit app, meaning if you upgrade your Mac to Catalina, YNAB 4 will not open. 

Because our support team uses primarily Macs, the Catalina upgrade means they will no longer be equipped to open, access, or troubleshoot for YNAB 4, even if you are using a device other than a Mac. This news forced us to make some hard decisions. 

As of October 31, 2019, we will no longer be able to support YNAB 4. 

Don’t worry, your budget data is safe and there are several ways you can access or use it moving forward. Head to the blog for more details and please do reach out to us if you have further questions. 

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  • And people say macs are better than Windows computers. I can still run DOS programs from the 1990s on my Windows 10 computer.

    I'll migrate to online YNAB when it achieves feature parity.

    So how exactly are you supporting online YNAB for people using Windows if you don't have developers using Windows computers? There are subtle differences in browser behavior between the two OSes.

    Reply Like 1
    • Your Macs vs. Windows. comment reminded me of this commercial. Makes me laugh every time.

      Our support team are the ones who are primarily on Macs, development runs completely separate from us, so I can't speak to what they use. The web version of YNAB allows support to troubleshoot online regardless of what operating system our team, or the customer use. Our support specialists need to be able to open the software, which is how we came to the decision that we won’t be able to support YNAB 4 any longer. We aren't announcing this to push you into the new version, but more to give our team the ability to focus only on one product. 

      Since you have a Windows computer and often don’t have questions about the software, you will still be able to use YNAB 4 for the foreseeable future. 

      I think it's important to be transparent here and mention that complete parity to YNAB 4 is not our expectation as our team pushes to release new features in YNAB. Our product team is working with customers every day through email, phone calls, in person meetings, and our feature request form to determine how we can best serve them now. That’s not to say that the pain points you mention won’t ever be solved, but I don’t want you to feel like you should wait for something that may not get to the top of the priority list.

      Reply Like
      • nbhms
      • nbhms
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Veronica at YNAB Sorry, but put me down as someone else who won't be switching until parity with YNAB 4 is accomplished. As I've said before on these forums, I'm not paying more for less functionality.  And saying you have no plans for parity just shows how little you care for your original customer base.

      I really am getting tired of this new trend in software development . . . "well, now that you've grown to depend on our product, we're switching to a web based subscription model that's missing half the features you need.  But don't worry, we'll add a bunch of new features you don't care about and use that to justify the exponentially increased cost of a subscription model."

      The are still options when Catalina comes out - easiest would be just don't upgrade to Catalina  (I've got several Macs around the house that can't upgrade to even the current OS), run Windows in  VM with YNAB4 installed in it, etc.

      Reply Like
  • Follow up question. When is Stealing From the Future going to be fixed? Shouldn't take four years.

    You shouldn't ending support for a working product while the current version is still fundamentally broken.

    Reply Like 7
    • nolesrule also needing steeling from the future

      Reply Like
    • We’ve beta-tested fixes for this, but they haven’t been successful yet and our team is working on other options. Also, we’re looking at ways to make future-budgeting more intuitive overall, especially through UI changes, and this may tie into active-deferral. I can't promise that the fix will come in the format that you'd like to see, or that we would refer to it as a fix for Stealing from the Future, but it is an overall issue we're looking to solve. I don't have a timeline in place for this. 

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Veronica at YNAB The betas failed because they tried to get too fancy, only to make things worse. It's really not all that hard. They were provided with a TBB calculation that is accurate and accounts for future overbudgeting years ago and they ignored it.

      Or they could just do something simple like add the negative future TBB to the header as a separate line item like the Toolkit does.

      It's just not that hard. Maybe YNAB needs to hire an applied mathematician to supply the necessary formulas since they don't seem to trust the formulas provided by intelligent customers who understand how it's supposed to work?

      Reply Like 5
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I think the beta failed because there are some that focus on the edge cases and never 'good enough'.  I still have the beta functionality and it would have been a far superior experience to the current experience for those without the beta.  A shame they didn't roll it out to everyone and then focus on a better experience.  

      Reply Like
      • bobbucy
      • Tomato_Snow_237e7f17927
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I created an income holding category from the very beginning and simply move that money back to TBB when I'm ready to allocate funds to the next month.  While I agree it's a workaround that shouldn't be necessary, it is a very simple workaround that seems to resolve the SFTF issue.  Is that not the case?  Maybe it's just because our budget and accounts are pretty simple but I have no problem with SFTF.

      Reply Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 9
      • Reported - view

      bobbucy You're absolutely right. However, YNAB does not teach people the work around, so it's pretty easy for someone, especially a newbie, to get bitten by the SFTF bug. The whole thing counter-intuitive to the provided user experience, where a negative number is supposed to tell you something is wrong. There is a negative number when SFTF happens, but it's not visible to the user.

      I continue to bring this up not for me, not for you, not for any of the experienced people who know how to avoid it, but for all the new users they are constantly onboarding who aren't aware. Learning the hard way is not how it should be learned.

      Reply Like 9
      • briefcase
      • A rack of ties, a travel mug, telephone, briefcase filled with papers
      • briefcase
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Veronica at YNAB This is really good news to my ears, especially the part about active deferral which is what I've wanted for years.

      Reply Like 1
  • Will budget migration (from a Windows device) and the 10% discount still be available after October 31st? I have no desire to move now, as YNAB4 is still the superior product for me, but might consider it once the appropriate features/fixes are added in the future, such as proper handling of reimbursements and a fix for stealing from the future.

    Reply Like 4
    • Agamede thought reimbursements and steeling from the future are the same thing? 

      Reply Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Lavender Sander The issue with reimbursement is the "payback" within the budget after the money comes back.

      Stealing from the future is a flaw in the planning stage whereby funds can be double-booked without warning, yielding misleading guidance for spending decisions. 

      Sort of opposite ends of the timing spectrum.

      Reply Like 2
      • Agamede
      • Agamede
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui You expressed it perfectly!

      Stealing from the future is a flaw that makes it impossible to trust the budget without constant double-checking. It's the mission-critical issue that prevents me from leaving YNAB4.

      Reimbursement handling is just a nice-to-have feature. I could live without it if the benefits of the new YNAB (automatic transaction import, online access, better phone app) came to outweigh the missing features (offline access, reimbursement handling, automated Income For Next Month) from YNAB4.

      Reply Like 1
    • Agamede Yes, that discount is always available to you. You'll need the key from your YNAB 4 software or the receipt from the original purchase to get access to that discount, but our support team will be happy to set that up for you anytime you'd like to try YNAB on the web. 

      If you continue to have access to YNAB 4 through Windows, migrating won't change and you'll always be able to do that as long as you can open YNAB 4. If you lose the ability to open YNAB 4, our team will release a method for importing your budget into the new YNAB without opening YNAB 4. Just send us an email when you're ready to give it a try and we'll figure out which is the best option for you at that time.

      Reply Like
      • Agamede
      • Agamede
      • 1 mth ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Veronica at YNAB Great, thanks. I have my key and don't anticipate any problem running YNAB4 in the future. Windows is really good about keeping things compatible, and the program itself has been remarkably trouble-free for me.

      Reply Like 3
  • Open source? Api? Gotta ask. 

    Reply Like
    • Lavender Sander Never hurts to ask, right? 

      I haven't heard of any plans for this, so my initial reaction is that it's probably not an option. I'm happy to dig in more and get back to you on this.

      Reply Like
    • Veronica at YNAB thanks! True story 😅

      Reply Like
    • Lavender Sander My initial thoughts were confirmed and I'm afraid we won't be offering this option. 

      Reply Like
  • nolesrule said:
    Or they could just do something simple like add the negative future TBB to the header as a separate line item like the Toolkit does.

     My thoughts exactly, why not simply make the user aware that a future month has a negative TBB.  This should not be difficult.  

    Reply Like 1
  • 64-bit Adobe AIR was released prior to online YNAB. YNAB4 should have been updated at that time.

    Reply Like 1
  • No feeds from banks outside the US?

    Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Tan Saxophone some Canadian and I think maybe a few UK banks are able to do direct connect.

      Reply Like 2
    • Tan Saxophone Good question. I am confident that International bank importing (besides Canadian banks) will not be an option before Catalina is released. Your best bet is to make a decision based on the app as it stands now. That said, we do have a great group of users making progress with our API and we have a list of integrations that work with YNAB officially if you wanted to give it a try. 

      Reply Like
  • I'll have to have a real think about this. I dislike paying software subscriptions and the YNAB subscription is pretty expensive (a 1 year subscription is more expensive than buying YNAB4 outright) considering exchange rates, even with the discount. Particularly where I will not be getting access to bank syncing. I may have to look for a different option.  

    Reply Like 1
  • Hi Guys, I hope you're all well.

    I have used YNAB4 for a number of years and did try the new web-based s/w a while back but didn't get on with it as, although not best practice I like to input all my regular outgoings and incomings for 12 months, in order to keep track of things. Is this still the case with the web-based s/w, or will I be able to input 12 months of ins and outs as I do on the current YNAB4 platform?

    Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Magenta Hammerhead future dated transactions will not show up in the web based version. Though you can budget money you don’t have into an infinity, even though that’s a pretty terrible idea.

      Reply Like
      • Vibrant
      • No more counting dollars, we'll be counting stars
      • vibrant
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Detail Devil Scheduled transactions can be set up to be recurring, but only the next scheduled instance is shown in the ledger (i.e. I can only see my upcoming October rent payment; once the scheduled date hits and it's moved to the active part of my register, the November payment will be visible). If you scheduled each one separately instead of using the recurring date setting, you would see them all.

      However, it's important to understand that scheduled transactions aren't handled the same as future dated transactions - they do not affect your budget until the scheduled date when they move to the active part of your register. They are basically reminders, and help with quick budgeting (there is a "budget for upcoming" option). 

      Reply Like
  • At the risk of starting a raging brush fire, I'm going to throw out an idea because it's bouncing around in my head.  I understand the disappointment of long-time YNAB4 users to see support for the product end completely.  I also understand that it is not realistic to expect YNAB to provide ongoing perpetual support for an end of life product.  The 10% discount is obviously still out there for those still using YNAB4.  What about the possibility of a better 1 time offer to encourage remaining YNAB4 users to make the switch.  A larger discount for the first year?  6 months free?  I'm just throwing it out there for consideration.

    Reply Like
      • Annieland
      • YNABbing every day since 2009!
      • Annieland
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      bobbucy The idea that has been bouncing around in my head, even though highly unlikely, is a dual pricing model:  A lower price for those who do not use direct import.  I use personal finance software (similar to Quicken) to track all the big stuff with a verrrry long history.  "Direct Access" has always been an optional subscription, even though the software itself is paid, with occasional discounts for major upgrades.  Without the optional subscription you can still import manually or via OFX formats if your institution allows.

      The direct import providers are a major expense for YNAB, which is subsidized by everyone, even those who still only use manual entry and reconcile on their own, or even users outside the U.S. who can't.

      Reply Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      bobbucy It's a shame the original pricepoint isn't still available. Even with the 10% discount, the jacked up price is too expensive for what you get. YNAB4 cost less. Annualized, YNAB4 cost a lot less. Originally the promise that came with moving the subscription model was that it would not cost any more than annualizing the cost of paying for version upgrades. Considering the retail price of YNAB4 was $60 and you could expect about 3 years out of it, nYNAB is way way way overpriced, even after accounting for inflation. Accounting for inflation, the subscription cost should be around $2/month.

      Reply Like 6
  • And as an aside, YNAB should have known nearly a year ago that this MacOS issue would come up.  So I'm surprised that they made this decision so last minute.  Several old apps of mine have been warning about this since the last major OS upgrade.  I even have a piece of major hardware (my scanner) that is going to have issues I'll have to deal with.  I wish people wouldn't knock Apple for this, though.  It's a "real" computer that is focused on improving its operating system for the better every time, which is why most Mac users are excited to upgrade to its major OS upgrades.

    One other thing.  I don't know if the Windows version of YNAB4 is still downloadable, but a Mac user can always run it in a Windows emulator.  I have Windows 7 on my Mac that I use to run a couple of crazy ancient unsupported programs with no issue.

    Reply Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Annieland ynab and practically every user has known this day is coming.  For the last 2 years any support ynab has provided for ynab 4 has been part of their promise to "support as long as they are able".  Official support ended long ago .

      Reply Like 1
  • Veronica at YNAB What went unanswered in all this, considering YNAB4 will still work on Windows...

    What about continued support for the migration tool? Will you make sure that it still works down the line? Or will you cease to maintain it at some point? Seems to me most of the work happens on the server and YNAB4 is just sending the data to an end point on the server.

    Reply Like
    • nolesrule While the current migration flow begins in YNAB 4 and sends the budget to the new YNAB, our team is currently exploring other options that would allow the migration to begin within the new version of YNAB and pull the information from your locally stored budget without having to open YNAB 4.   As of now, we don’t have any plans to change the migration flow for Windows users, though we haven’t ruled out that possibility in the future. In that case, we would still communicate that out so you would have warning time to migrate over. 

      Reply Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 1 mth ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Veronica at YNAB Good to know. Thanks.

      Reply Like 1
  • Also, I was originally grandfathered into the $45 price point, and it stuck around even after the increase in price. In fact, we were originally promised that the $45 price point would be available to YNAB4 users no matter when they decided to subscribe. But when YNAB implemented their data retention policies, they, they deleted my original account and I lost access to the grandfathered $45 price point.

    Would I be able to get that back?

     

    On a side note, when they deleted my account, I was able to keep going on the support forum as if nothing had happened. That is, until I tried to use the forum on a different computer. At that point  I was able to re-register using the same account information and gained access to my original support program profile on the new computer. Seems like that could be a security risk. Someone else could have registered with my email address after the account deletion and essentially start posting as me.

    Reply Like
    • nolesrule I'm going to speak to your side note first here:

      I do know about this issue and it's a very unique one. Our CTO is looking into the security issues specifically and we are working on figuring out the best sign in flow that confirms users have YNAB accounts, but also don't pose any strange risks like this loophole seems to. I know that's not a direct answer to the issue, but know that it's on our minds and we're looking into options that keep the entire community secure.

      Your pricing question is an interesting one and that's simply because your issue is rare. I took a quick look at your account, but I'm not the best person to determine which pricing structure you should have. We have a dedicated User Accounts support team that would be happy to do a more thorough review. Let me know if you'd like to do that and I'll set you up in an email thread with them directly. 

      Reply Like
  • Well I've just migrated my budget to the online one, on the free trial. Sorry, I won't be signing up. I'm another awkward person who likes to input my transactions 12 months ahead and the online thing is doing my head in already. Also I'm not happy about an annual subscription when I paid for YNAB4 outright. I'm old and obstinate! Can I just check, although I have migrated my old YNAB budget over, can I still continue to use the old system beyond the free trial deadline, or have I shot myself in the foot? ETA who the heck is Gray Packet?

    Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Gray Packet YNAB 4 is software that lives on your computer. As long as your computer can handle it, you can use it. The next OS upgrade for Macs will mean that you will not be able to open YNAB4 on your Mac. It should continue to work just fine on a Windows machine. Gray Packet is the automatically assigned forum name if you didn't go in to pick your own.

      Reply Like
    • jenmas Thanks for the quick reply. Well looks like I'm a bit buggered then as I'm on a mac. Oh well I'll struggle on until I need to update and then I'll try and find another way of budgeting. 

      Reply Like
  • Well as in youth all good things must come to an end. So I suppose I can change if I have to but. . there is always a but.. I use YNAB for the reports feature a great deal. Especially at the end of the year for tax reporting. How complicated is it going to be to transfer back to YNAB4 at the end of the year for this purpose? And if this is not the correct thread to discuss this I apologize in advance. MC

    Reply Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Mr. Micawber Have you tried the nYNAB reports? Also, the toolkit has their own set of reports.

      Reply Like
  • RIP. It was the YNAB we wanted, but not the YNAB we deserved.

    Reply Like
  • Well for me, it's the end of the road.  I've gone back to look at iCompta and since I left it back in v4 it's made some good progress, and whilst it might not be the budgeting tool YNAB is, it's a better solution for me to manage transactions and transfers across multiple accounts.

    And as a one-off £25 + £3 for the mobile app it represents much better value for me, potentially saving me hundreds of pounds over the next few years.

    I still miss Microsoft Money if I'm being honest, which seemed to do this stuff much better all those years ago!

    Anyway, thanks for the YNAB4 journey.

    Reply Like 1
    • Hi Tan Saxophone !

      We're sorry to see you go, but we completely understand your decision! I hope you find a tool that better suits your budgeting journey! :)

      Reply Like
  • Of course YNAB 4 couldn't be supported forever, but it seems like a cop out to use the new Mac OS as the time to end it.  YNAB Support doesn't need to upgrade to the new OS as soon as it is released.  Apple will still support Mojave for quite some time, meaning YNAB support can support YNAB4 for many more years.  I realize YNAB4 support has to come to an end, but have some guts and and pick your own date.  Don't pretend Apple is forcing your hand.

     

    - 5 year YNAB4 user

    Reply Like
    • Hi Fulltime !

      This decision has been in the making for a while now. We stopped officially supporting YNAB 4 at the end of 2016, which we announced at the end of 2015, but have continued to unofficially support the program for almost three additional years. Our newer support reps are no longer trained on YNAB 4 and our development team hasn't updated the program in years, so Apple's initiative seemed like the perfect time to officially stop unofficial support (and any other kind). :)

      Reply Like 1
      • Fulltime
      • Khaki_Device.3
      • 1 mth ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

       

      Oh I understand. I lived through all of that as a faithful YNAB user. But to say you CAN’T unofficially support YNAB because of Apple is just disingenuous.  As you mentioned this has been coming for a long time. It would have been quite easy to pick a date and Announce it well in advance. It is what it is. I just think you could have been more honest in your communication.  That’s all. 

      Reply Like 2
    • Fulltime Thank you for taking the time to explain! While we didn't mean to be disingenuous, it's helpful to know it came across that way. This was the push we needed to make that call and we truly feel it's the right call to make. We want to be more transparent in the forum and across our other platforms, as well - we'll continue to work at it! :)

      Reply Like
      • Fulltime
      • Khaki_Device.3
      • 1 mth ago
      • Reported - view

      Thanks Faness .  I appreciate that!

      Reply Like
  • As others have mentioned the lack of feature parity, I'll add my two cents. 

    I've been trying to get YNAB to care that in 2015 when they unveiled their web service, they specifically said a desktop version would come.  I switched over and paid for the new service for TWO YEARS before I realized no desktop version was coming.  I emailed YNAB repeatedly about it, and it became pretty obvious they didn't care.  I would've respected them, and possibly stayed with nYNAB, if there had just been some honesty..  Just admit they decided not to do a desktop version after all and offer some kind of apology.  I requested a refund for the 24 months subscription I paid and I went back to YNAB4.  I'd be happy to switch back again if they would just deliver what they promised.

    And yeah, it feels like YNAB no longer cares about its original loyal customers.  My first YNAB was the spreadsheet about 15 years ago (?) and I sang its praises ever since.  I told everyone who would listen, I gave copies of the first book to friends and family, I posted about it on Facebook, I wore a YNAB t-shirt....  and now I just feel foolish and disappointed they stopped listening to their most loyal customers. 

    Reply Like 4
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 wk ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Cheetah Fulltime Adapt or move on. Unfortunately, there is no alternative I've found to date that mimics the YNAB method which has changed my financial landscape. There is no plan for feature parity at this point. It is what it is with slight modifications over a very long timeframe. Also, I wouldn't say they treat long time users and differently than new users. They listen to us equally. ("Put in a feature request!" followed by <silence> 😋)

      The good news is that with some workarounds and the toolkit add-on, you can get an experience that is very close to the pinnacle of the software that was YNAB 4. Sure, you're going to pay more over time for the experience but until somebody comes out with a cheaper alternative that utilizes the YNAB method to your specifications, there aren't many choices.

      Note: For perspective, I've been a YNAB user since YNAB Pro.

      Reply Like 3
      • Fulltime
      • Khaki_Device.3
      • 2 wk ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Exactly.  I'm adapting.  I'll use an old windows laptop I have.  I expect to be using YNAB4 for many years to come.  I could be a paying customer at a better price point, but it doesn't seem like YNAB is viable as a business at that price point.  Thus the almost doubling of price in a world where software generally stays flat or goes down.

      Reply Like 1
    • Hi Turquoise Cheetah !

      I'm sorry we weren't able to deliver a desktop version of YNAB. When we launched, we did intend to follow the online version with a paired desktop version. However, our priorities shifted and we had to remove the option from our short-term roadmap. That isn't to say we'll never offer a desktop option, but it's not currently planned. We are still listening, this just wasn't an option we could fit in to the current plan.

      I'm happy that YNAB 4 stills suits your needs in the meantime. We'll continue to work on improving the YNAB experience and we hope you'll give it another try in the future.

      Reply Like
      • nbhms
      • nbhms
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone While there aren't any I've found that use the "YNAB" method, there are alternatives that use the "envelope" method.  I came to YNAB4 from the envelope method, and used YNAB because of great interface, feature set, and it basically used the envelope method (and not because of the "YNAB method").  When YNAB4 no longer works, I will go looking for one of those if nYNAB is still stubbornly holding onto it's refusal to put back in the features users need.  I won't be paying an annual/monthly fee for a product that doesn't do what I need it to do.

      Reply Like
    • nbhms As I see it, the YNAB "method" is simply common sense summarized. Rule 1 is inherent to any envelope budgeting approach. Rule 2 is an easy way to plan for non-monthly outflows (to avoid the last minute scrambling). Rule 3 just says as your plan becomes obsolete, just change the plan. We do this all the time in non-financial matters! (When expecting 6 for dinner and 7 show up, you obviously don't insist on the original plan of only 6 plates!)

      The current Rule 4 isn't worth discussing as it's not even actionable. Classic Rule 4, though, may not be common sense (unless you're paid monthly on the last day of the month), but it sure makes sense once you can achieve it. 

      Reply Like 3
    • Faness   Well, thanks for the reply and for YNAB finally admitting there just won't be a desktop app.  It could've been handled better by just saying so in an email, or even editing the 2015 article saying there would be a desktop version... as new features were added, that list was updated with all the accomplishments, but never was it made clear to people like me who had signed up with the promise of a desktop app and actually waiting for it, that YNAB had abandoned it.  Honesty would've gone a long way towards keeping your most loyal customers.  Just pointing that out.

      And I didn't actually say YNAB4 still suits my needs, especially since this entire thread is about the fact it won't work with Catalina.  So this means I can't update my operating system until I can find a suitable YNAB4 replacement... and I have been searching for about two years already, ever since I figured out no desktop app was coming.  I can't find anything else that really comes close :(

      Reply Like
      • Annieland
      • YNABbing every day since 2009!
      • Annieland
      • 13 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Turquoise Cheetah Do you use Banktivity for general finance?  I use it side-by-side with YNAB for about 10 years now.  I soooo wish I'd ever test-driven its new-ish envelope budgeting function just to provide feedback and comparisons for the loyal YNAB crew, but I never did because I always made do with YNAB4 or nYNAB.  If you're not familiar with Banktivity, give it a look.  Maybe you can be the guinea pig we Mac users need.

      I ain't pulling the trigger on Catalina just yet as I'm more worried about my scanner software and Office suite going kaput right now.  I need a weekend to map out my upgrade path for a whole bunch of archaic apps.  My 15 yr old son on the other hand, already has half the macs in the house upgrading as we speak.

      Reply Like 1
      • nbhms
      • nbhms
      • 13 days ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui Yup, YNAB is just "envelope method" plus "common sense".  Which is why I'm not tied to YNAB.  I use YNAB4 because I like their user interface for the way I do the envelope method.  Since their interface for nYNAB does not, I won't be using it.  Which reminds me, I should got check out how the product I was using before YNAB4 is handling Catalina.  For now, I'm just not upgrading to Catalina.  I've got Macs in my house still running on OS X Lion due to hardware incompatibilities, so not upgrading to Catalina isn't a hardship.

      Reply Like 1
  • So true.  The reality is YNAB has left us long time users behind.  They won't admit it, but it's clear to see.  I would pay $45 for nYNAB now that I hear it works, but no way I'm paying $87.  I don't have a single piece of software that costs me that much annually.  As they say, business is business.  And YNAB seems to only be worried about the almighty dollar.  That's ok though.  I'll continue to use YNAB4.  I can buy a virtual machine on a ONE TIME basis for cheaper than one year of nYNAB.  Maybe one day I'll check out alternatives and then sing their praises just like I used to sing YNABs.

    Reply Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Fulltime I believe as a YNAB 4 user, you should be able to get the $45 price point. But don't quote me on that.

      Reply Like
      • Fulltime
      • Khaki_Device.3
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone That's a no go.  I contacted support and they said they don't honor that price anymore.  I even pointed out how bad nYNAB was in the beginning (something even Jesse recognizes) and I essentially couldn't switch when the price point was $45.  Still no go.  I realize YNAB has to make money like the rest of us.  It's just too bad there's no viable path to nYNAB for me.  Can't justify $87/per year when I can still use YNAB4 and could recreate the system myself.

      Reply Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Fulltime Gotcha. Sorry to hear that.

      Reply Like
      • Vibrant
      • No more counting dollars, we'll be counting stars
      • vibrant
      • 2 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Superbone I believe the deal for YNAB4 > nYNAB users has always been that you lock in your nYNAB rate at 10% off the current subscription cost at the time you signed up, which for *very* early adopters would've been $45/yr (10% off the initial YNAB subscription price of $50).  If you switched after the price went up, you'd lock in at $67/yr or whatever.

      Whether they are still offering that discount now to the very late adopters, or if it's been discontinued, I don't know.

      Reply Like 2
      • Fulltime
      • Khaki_Device.3
      • 2 wk ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Vibrant Yep.  I have 10% off whatever the current price is locked in.  Hopefully when YNAB4 finally stops working for me the nYNAB price won't be something like $200/yr.  lol.

      Reply Like 2
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Vibrant OK, that makes sense. I locked it in and got a subscription just before the first price change.

      Reply Like
    • Fulltime That's exactly what I did, just bought an update on my parallels desktop license for 49,99€ from PD 8 to PD 15 and every thing works like a charm. I use the money money app to get the information about my bank accounts, which also works with European accounts with PSD2, which is not supported by YNAB online an will not be supported in the near future!!!! This allows me to stay with YNAB4 and money money for only 49,99€  money money has a direct export to YNAB :D

      Reply Like
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Nope. I tried. :(

      Reply Like
  • Turquoise Cheetah said:
    requested a refund for the 24 months subscription I paid and I went back to YNAB4.

     24 month subscription?! Did you get a special deal? I thought it was sold a year at a time.

    Reply Like
    • Superbone   No, sorry for the confusion.  It was 2 years that I paid for nYNAB, patiently waiting for the desktop version they promised.  I just meant that I had paid them for 24 months (2 annual subscriptions) before I finally realized something was wrong and the desktop app wasn't coming.  Not only was I irritated for paying for the service for 2 years under false pretenses, but also for putting up with the online version for that long.  It was a real inconvenience relying on the new service that long.  The reason I need a desktop is because I don't always have internet access.

      Reply Like 1
  • I too was under the impression that the $45 grandfathered pricing was available to all YNAB4 users, regardless of when they joined nYNAB.

    "Here is what you need to know about YNAB 4

    • The new YNAB is a paid upgrade. Five dollars per month, or $45/year for you, because you’re a YNAB 4 customer. (If you purchased YNAB 4 recently, you’ll get the new YNAB free for several months.)"


    I'm reading that some people were able to still access this price point, not because they had subscribed to nYNAB, but because they had a trial of it all those years ago. With all the glitches that comes with a new program, I didn't jump at the chance to do a trial of nYNAB nor subscribe. Had I known even doing a trial would secure the $45, I would not have hesitated to sign up for a trial...

    With exchange rates, and less functionality (since I can't link my bank etc), paying upward of AUD$110 a year is a stretch at the best of times.

    Reply Like 1
  • Hi all,

    If you're a YNAB 4 user switching to the current version, you're eligible for the lifetime discount!

    All you need to do is sign up for the web-based YNAB with the same email you used to purchase YNAB 4. When you subscribe via our website, you'll see the 10% lifetime discount applied to the annual subscription. Please note that we aren’t able to provide this discount to subscriptions managed by any other company.

    If you’d prefer to sign up with a different email, don’t see the 10% discount, or have questions about which pricing structure applies to your account—please send us a message in the app, or to help@ynab.com.

    Our dedicated User Accounts support team would be happy to look closer!

    Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 13 days ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Nicole It's not worth 90% of the current price. It's not worth 90% of the launch price year after year given the lack of any real progress with the SaaS model. We shouldn't be paying the developers to spend most of their time fixing issues with Direct Import. I think it's about time you guys just drop Direct Import and put the resources everyone else is paying for on features that will help them budget better.

      Or give me a lifetime subscription for $100 and I'll consider subscribing.

      Reply Like 6
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 13 days ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I don't think direct import is going anywhere. I use it and if I'd have to guess, over 50% of all nYNAB users (in the US and Canada) use it. I worry more about how many resources are going to classes and training, something that a seasoned YNABer isn't going to use. But I do have the original YNAB 4 user price point which makes it much more palatable. I can't imagine I'd stay at the higher price point. I do know that the glacial rate of changes would bother me a whole lot more if I was paying $84 a year.

      Reply Like 3
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 13 days ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Tiered pricing. Those that can't use Direct Import because their bank isn't supported or it just plain doesn't work or people don't want to use it should not subsidize the costs of those who do use it.

      Yes, I know that people will go to the ala carte argument of feature sets would make pricing impossible, but in this case, the feature is from a third party vendor and not something YNAB provides themselves, and it has a monetary cost that gets passed on to the third party vendor.

      Reply Like 5
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 13 days ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule I also just want to point out we were told by a certain founder of what used to be a financial education software company before release that it wouldn't really be any more expensive than YNAB4. I paid $45 for YNAB4 in 2014. The retail price was $60 . That's $49 (or $65) in 2019 accounting for inflation. Let's say the release cycle was every 2-3 years. Being generous, that works out to about $1.50 to $3 per month.

      And they are charging the monthly subscribers $12/month? That would pay for a YNAB4 release in 4 months. And the annual subscribers are being charged the equivalent of $7/month?

      Are the nYNAB users really getting $4 to $9 more per month out of nYNAB than they got out of YNAB4?

      Reply Like 2
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      And again, it should be pointed out that any YNAB4 user who created a trial account prior to the price increase is still grandfathered into the old price even if they never subscribed. YNAB4 users who never created a trial account are not grandfathered in.

      But there is a caveat for those who did create the trial account. if you use this support forum and try to log in from a computer you've never used the forum on, due to YNAB's data retention policies it actually deletes your account under the hood. In order to re-establish your ownership of account , you then have to do a hard delete of your account and re-create it, which changes the price point for your account from the grandfathered price to the current price.

      Reply Like
      • Fulltime
      • Khaki_Device.3
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Not true.  Jesse is quoted as saying he promised 10% of for life, not a certain price point.  I've gone through this with support already.

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Fulltime Don't tell me it's not true. The evidence exists. Read my description above. There are users who have provided screenshots showing they can still subscribe at the original pricepoint even though they've never subscribed. What I described above in my second paragraph is the use case that caused the original pricepoint to be lost.

      Agamede care to provide your screenshot here? Or can I?

      Just because support said one thing, the screenshots don't lie. I personally still had the original pricepoint showing in my account  until about 6 months ago. I tried logging into the forums with this very account on my phone to reply to someone. I usually use my desktop to access these forums. It wouldn't let me in. The only way to get in was to re-register my account even though it was active on my desktop computer (by the way, this is also a major security issue, because someone could steal your forum identity). When the account was re-registered, the old pricepoint was gone, replaced with the new one.

      So which is wrong? Support, or the users who had trial accounts that still show the old pricepoint?

      To me that's not actually fair to those who haven't subscribed but have actively supported the community on multiple devices that were forced to override because they changed devices.

      Reply Like
      • Fulltime
      • Khaki_Device.3
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule lol.  Hit a nerve did I?  Yes your description of the caveat is correct, but I don't see how the customer should be held responsible for this glitch in the YNAB forum.

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Fulltime The customer should not be held responsible. YNAB should.

      If they are honoring the pricepoint for those not affected by the glitch, they should honor it for those who are affected by the glitch.

      Reply Like
      • Fulltime
      • Khaki_Device.3
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Yep.  We are in full agreement on this.  One hell of a way to run a company...

      Reply Like
      • Agamede
      • Agamede
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Sure!

      Background on me for the record: long-time YNAB4 user who purchased through Steam. I signed up for a nYNAB trial as soon as I could manage. I have never paid for nYNAB, but did accept a second trial at some point. All my YNABing has been tied to the same email address. And as you can see, I am still eligible for the $45/year price.

      Reply Like
  • nolesrule said:
    Nicole It's not worth 90% of the current price. It's not worth 90% of the launch price year after year given the lack of any real progress with the SaaS model. We shouldn't be paying the developers to spend most of their time fixing issues with Direct Import.

    This. I don't do direct import, and seeing so much effort directed at it, while continuing to stall on other problems is more than mildly infuriating.

    Reply Like 2
  • Are there any similar issues with IOS 13 and the mobile version of YNAB4?  My phone has been bugging me to update, I always hold off for a few weeks on a new update anyway, just wondering if I should avoid 13 all-together for now . . . .

    Reply Like
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      nbhms I'm not having any problems with YNAB4 on iOS 13, but you might still want to hold off for now. The 'Messages/BlueTooth/Watch' bug that first appeared with the release of iOS 12 (which was subsequently fixed) has reared its ugly head again. This is a bug where, with BlueTooth turned on, on the iPhone, no Messages notifications appear, neither audible or visual. Turning off BT restores the 'normal' notification function for Messages. This might only happen if an Apple Watch is present. For me, it's not a problem to have BT off on my iPhone, but the bug is still there and should be fixed. I haven't noticed any other problems.

      Reply Like
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