Checkbox behavior

I use the checkbox a lot, not only in the Register but also in the Budget...   

Normally I select 4 or 5 rows to do some action on them...   To unselect them I seem to recall I'd select on the "master" one at the top of the page (same level as the titles), and that would unselect the ones I had chosen...  If i clicked again it would select all...

Now when I click the "master" to unselect the few I have selected it first selects all, and I have to make a second click to unselect all...

Has this behavior changed in some recent release or has it never worked as I describe, and it is wishful thinking on my behalf???

Thanks,

Rick Thomas

23replies Oldest first
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Active threads
  • Popular
  • Yes, this did change recently! It turned out the way we were doing it was out of line with web standards... but I was also used to the old behavior.

    It's unlikely to change back, but I have gotten used to the new way, if that helps...? 😬

    Like 1
    • Matthew Why does it need to be in line with web standards if the web standard is not optimal for this web app? Just asking. 

      Who even sets the standard?  I can easily see this going the way of some fashion/interior designer (nothing against those people) who is somehow given the power to choose the color of the year, the style of the year, or how everyone's counters/paint/whatever should look, seemingly just because they said so (and marketed it). Of course, I can always choose not to buy their clothes, etc.  But web standards? Massive UI changes have happened every few years since I've known software and the internet. Are the standards going to change at that speed? And again, who gets to set the rules? And are you being forced to follow design standards, or can you apply what fits your needs appropriately?

      Just musing on philosophy here. I know the leaders on the playground won't listen to me.  

      Like 2
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life I know!  So much yellow and tie-dye!  Who decided this?? Who cares about "Pantone color of the year??"  Geez.

      Like 1
    • Matthew Hello, I just wanted to apologize for griping here.  Please, don't take it personally.  I really do appreciate your down-to-earth forum demeanor and precision/accuracy as you solve problems here!

      Like
    • Matthew it is a shame the change happened...   and not sure where the "standard" comes from...   The other place I use this is in Gmail...  and there I select the ones I want, and when I click on the "master" it deselects all the ones I was working on...   will have to get used that in Gmail it's one way and in YNAB another...  hope not to make a mess one day!!!

      Thanks for your quick response and support...

      Like
    • No worries. I'm asking for some clarification from the developers!

      Like
  • Yup, you need two clicks now.  I hate it.  I'm always paranoid that somehow messing with "all transactions" multiple times is gonna cause some kind of browser/app slowdown or crash.  It's happening relatively quickly for me, but I still think it's stupid, especially with a " - " in the box, as if you're about to UNselect.

    Like
  • Hey Annieland Move Light Sound Life Rick Thomas I'm the designer on the Connections, Accounts, and Transactions team here at YNAB. Long time lurker, first time poster. I wanted to let you know that I hear your feedback and would like to improve this once a few things line up on our end.

    A bit of info if it’s helpful/interesting. A while back we received some feedback that our checkboxes were not following the W3 standard (spec, example), which wasn't great for customers with accessibility needs. In response, we updated all checkboxes in the app (e.g. budget checkboxes, Manage Payees checkboxes) to follow the standard. We adopted the standard for the right reasons, but I agree it doesn’t feel quite right for our app, yet. However, I’m confident we can get it to a place where we’re following the spec and the interaction feels natural.

    Any change like this goes through a research phase on our end. In addition to reading the spec, we looked at a bunch of examples. More often than not we found other apps were complying with the standard, but there were outliers, and Gmail was a big one. It's tough when a giant app like that bucks the trend and creates its own “standard” through sheer scale.

    We prepared the Support Specialists for a sizeable amount of customer feedback since this was a (potentially) disruptive behaviour change, but it was shockingly quiet—probably less than one-tenth of the feedback we were expecting (and that's across all platforms we monitor, not just this forum). Other metrics we monitor were not affected either. But that doesn't mean a whole lot if something still feels off.

    I imagine we'll be running an experiment with some changes to this in the next little while. If you'd like to give it a try, we'll figure out a way to securely get your email addresses so we know who to include in the experiment! 

    Like 6
      • Annieland
      • I was told there would be no math.
      • Annieland
      • 6 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dylan Mason Wow, cool explanation!  Thanks so much!  I'm a beta tester but have mostly been assigned the iOS stuff, but I am MUCH more familiar with usability on the web.  I can assure you I will ramble endlessly and candidly with (constructive?) feedback on anything I think I can add.  So, I shouldn't be hard to find in the system if you want to reach out.  Thanks again for your diligent work on the app!

      Like 1
    • Dylan Mason  Many thanks for your prompt and clear answer...   It gives us a feel for why these changes occur...   I've never beta tested, but very willing to help out with any testing your planning on doing...   Count me in!!!

      Like 1
      • Ceeses
      • Ceeses
      • 6 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Dylan Mason Well, I can give a feedback already. I had a look at the standard example. I had to read the text of the example to see the main checkbox has 2 states: mixed and all. I didn't see it on their checkbox example before reading the text. I didn't see it in YNAB either before reading about it.

      What I like in the example of the standard is the main checkbox is labelled "All" which makes it obvious that clicking on it would select all first and deselect after. In YNAB, the main checkbox isn't labelled so the behaviour is less obvious.

      Like 2
    • Dylan Mason Thanks for posting, and the info is interesting.  I'm pretty sure one of the forum mods can direct you to needed emails.

      Like 1
    • Dylan Mason Thanks for the information!! I never thought about the internet having standards.. but it also makes sense. Is it possible that this is a minor thing many people don't find big enough to 'nag' about? For myself - it's been bugging me but I just barely looked it up today. I wonder how many people like myself are out there?

      Like
    • Dylan Mason A little more context on use case:

      Why do I select transactions?  I want to manipulate only those selected. 

      What do I want to do immediately after manipulating them? I want to clear the selection. 

      Why do I want to clear the selection? I would like to move on to the next task, likely manipulating a *different* set of transactions.

      At no point do I think, "Hey, I just did a thing to these seven, specific transactions. Now let me do a thing to *everything in my register.*

      If I wanted to select them all, I wouldn't have clicked a few first. 

      I'm really struggling to think of a use case in any application where I would want to select a few (purportedly to do something to them) and then *not* clear the selection immediately afterwards. 

      It seems to me that whoever decided on this standard got it wrong, but I would love to be enlightened. Perhaps someone could share a scenario that would benefit from this standard?

      It's just one of those annoyances that sticks its tongue out at me every time the application thinks I want to do something that makes no sense (select all before clearing). 😔

      Like 1
    • Dylan Mason  I just wanted to say I found this to be a clear, helpful and empathetic post.  Thank you for taking the time to share it 🙂

      Like
  • Actually, I find the way YNAB is managing checkboxes right now quite intuitive too.

    Like
    • Ivory Falcon Why? What's the logic?

      Like
  • Hi everyone. I have an update for you. Later today we're releasing a change to checkbox deselection behaviour in the web app. This is only going out to YNAB employees and a small cohort of customers for now. I've included participants in this topic in the experiment, but please let me know if you'd like to opt-out of it. The change affects the budget, register, and payee management. 

    Our goal for the change is to reduce the repetitive deselection actions in the app in a way that feels natural. We haven't reverted the select/deselect all checkbox behaviour in this release. Instead, the team shared this sentiment expressed by Move Light Sound Life

    What do I want to do immediately after manipulating [transactions]? I want to clear the selection. 

    Why do I want to clear the selection? I would like to move on to the next task, likely manipulating a *different* set of transactions.

    With that in mind, we're automatically deselecting categories/transactions/payees after most actions in the hopes we can simultaneously remove some tedium and reduce the need to click that select all checkbox. I'm sure we'll need to make a few tweaks to this, but once things are looking good, we'll release this to more customers to get more usage data. 

    With very few exceptions, we went all in on automatic deselections, and we'd be surprised if we got them exactly right in this experiment. That's where you come in! We're looking for you to use the YNAB web app as you normally would and note any broken workflows, especially as we start a new month and set up our July (or future) budget. 

    If the changes in this release don't adequately address the issue, we've got a few other ideas in mind. I'll be checking in on this thread every once in a while. If you leave some feedback here I'll definitely see it, but it may take me a few days to get back to it. 

    Thanks again for your input on this one! 

    Like 2
    • Dylan Mason Woohoo! Thanks for listening! 

      I already set up July this past weekend, so it might be awhile (September will have some changes to be made) before I have to wholesale interact with YNAB again, but we'll see. I can probably play-act later this month.

      The only concern that comes to mind with automatically deselecting things is that I *really like* to check my work, and having the selection disappear so I can't visually verify that the desired effect took place correctly doesn't really instill confidence in the software.

      Side note: yes, YNAB needs to be checked. I can't tell you how many times I've edited a transaction (future date and payee are the most common culprits) and the change didn't take place the first try. And there's always user error. If I click the category right below the one I'm going for, at least I'll have a moment of saying, "huh, that doesn't look right, what was I doing?"

      On the budget side, I'm curious to see what action is to be done that will clear the selection - quick budgeting, I suppose. 

      When I was overhauling my budget this past weekend, I did a fair bit of 1) selecting a few categories to see the totals in the inspector, and 2) clicking the top box twice to deselect. Aside from my tracking my eyes looking and reading my mind, there was no way YNAB could know I was done with my task. 

      Please don't include technology to track my eye motion or read my mind. 😉

      Like 3
    • Move Light Sound Life What, you don't like the invasion of privacy that an eye/mind reading budget app would entail? :)

      I also use the "select multiple things to see a total without making changes" function - although I think I'd be okay with the app reading my mind about when I'm done with that!

      Like 2
    • Dylan Mason thanks for the good news!!!   I'll be diving into July budget in the next days, so I'll be on the lookout for this modification...

      I also add my vote to the use of "selecting a few categories to see the totals in the inspector", but perform no actions on the checked ones, other than deselecting...  

      Like 2
  • elsewhere said:
    When moving to the next task, the user needs to start the task by clicking anywhere on the next transaction/category/payee except for the checkbox. This will automatically deselect the previously selected records.

     Except then the one that you randomly clicked on in order to deselect everything else is now selected.  Now you gotta un-select that one.

    Like 1
Like Follow
  • 4 mths agoLast active
  • 23Replies
  • 498Views
  • 11 Following