YNAB 4.x 64-bit or 32-bit?

Can someone tell me if YNAB 4 is a 32-bit or a 64-bit app?  If it's 32-bit, are there any plans to release a 64-bit version?  I'm currently running YNAB 4.3.855 on a Mac and my understanding is the latest Mac OS (High Sierra) is probably the last version that will support 32-bit apps. 

p.s. - I have no interest in the new web-based version.

Thanks!

Dan at YNAB moved this conversation to App Functions

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    • WordTenor
    • Your lieutenant, when there's reckoning to be reckoned.
    • WordTenor
    • 1 yr ago
    • 4
    • Reported - view

    Hi Navy,

    You'll find better answers about version 4 on the classic forum, forum.youneedabudget.com . There are some YNAB enthusiasts there who are also developers and can give you good advice about keeping legacy software running.

    Reply Like 4
  • Hey  Navy Blue Boat , YNAB 4 is currently a 32-bit app and we don't yet have any plans to release a 64-bit version of the app. Hope that helps answer your questions! 

    Reply Like
    • Dan How about you opensource it to GitHub and let us developers port it to Clang++/64 bit.   That way the extremely enthusiastic YNAB4 community could keep it going.  We can probably even find retired lawyers in the community that would structure the licensing anyway YNAB wants it.   Pretty sure we could that would end the annoyance of YNAB4 forever

      Reply Like 1
    • Hi Alice Blue Pegasus !

      Currently, we don't have any intentions of making any future changes to YNAB 4, but that's not a bad idea! You can submit that idea via our Feature Request form for further consideration by our development team, but it's also something you can bring up in the API section of the forum if you want to discuss the idea further! :)

      Reply Like
  • Hey  Navy Blue Boat , I thought I'd add a little more context here since I have some more information now. First of all,  WordTenor is right, you might find some help in the classic forum on how to keep the legacy software running. So check that out!

    Since you've already heard that Apple will stop supporting 32-bit apps like YNAB 4 Classic in 2018, and that the High Sierra version of OSX will be the last version of their OS to fully support 32-bit apps, here's what that means for YNAB 4.

    This change means that YNAB 4 Classic should continue functioning for now, and continue to work in the High Sierra (10.13) OS for the foreseeable future. Updates after that are likely to compromise YNAB 4's functionality, and might even make it impossible to use. 

    As you can imagine, we can't prevent Apple from going this route, and we will not be updating YNAB 4 to a 64-bit app. We’ve been happy to offer support for YNAB 4 Classic for nearly two years since our web launch, including an update in mid-2017 to allow cloud sync to continue working.

    As a YNAB 4 user, you have a couple of options when the new Mac OS update is released next year:

    1. You could check out what help there is on the Classic Forums to keep your app running.
    2. You can choose not to update your Mac OS (at least temporarily) and continue to use YNAB 4.

    (I know you've mentioned disinterest in the web version, but that's still an option if you'd like to trial it for free at that time)

    Let me know if you have any questions about all of this! We're wanting to make sure the transition is as smooth as possible for you!

    Reply Like
  • Ok.  Thanks for the additional information.  I've been a long time user (since May 2012) so I'm definitely saddened to hear this, but I understand your reasons.

    Reply Like
  • I don't share the understanding nature of the previous poster. I am quite irate at the lack of support for your software.

    Since I have been a YNAB customer and evangelist from the Excel spreadsheet days until the subscription based fiasco, I feel I have a right to vent my frustrations and disappointment with YNAB's lack of concern for long time customers.

    I have paid full price for each version of the software as it has come out until the latest version which changed to subscription based (and dramatically increased the yearly cost of budgeting) because I believe that the software license was worth the money. Even though I have never had much money in my budget since I got my first job 20 years ago,  I always coughed up the money because I believe in budgeting and I believed YNAB actually cared for its customers (not just those with extra money or those they can dupe into believing that $6.99/mo is a great price).

    My frustration started with said overpriced subscription fee. First of all the previous software license cost $60 (which I still think is overpriced, but I was willing to pay it and happy with the software). Now the subscription costs $85 every year. So, after switching I have to keep paying this irresponsible extra fee just to allow me to continue being responsible with the rest of my money. To me this just shows a shift from being the customer-centric company they were with YNAB 3 and 4 to an entitled "this price and payment structure makes it easier for us to run our business so you customers should just swallow whatever we give you" attitude.

    Needless to say I have not and will not ever pay your subscription fee for the right to budget. That being said I was completely content to continue using the trusty, dusty YNAB 4 software that made my life easier in budgeting my finances.

    Now, when I found out that Apple was discontinuing support for 32-bit software soon I checked all of my apps to see if any were still 32-bit. Lo and behold only one was still using the outdated 32-bit, YNAB 4. In 2007 Apple computers were all equipped with 64-bit processors and in 2011 Mac OS X Lion was released as a fully 64-bit OS. YNAB 4 arrived in 2012. Why in the world was it not 64-bit when it arrived? And why in the next several years did it not become 64-bit? And now that 32-bit support is ending in macOS why is YNAB not willing to extend the life of YNAB 4 by simply converting it to 64-bit (like it should have been from the start)?

    Reply Like 4
  • I totally agree with Steel Blue Sound.

    Please update it to 64bit (like the iOS app already is...).

    Reply Like
  • I am using YNAB for more than 5 years now and I am very happy with it. It made planning a lot easier. But to read this reply is very sad. I am not sure how expensive it would be to upgrade the app from 32-bit to 64-bit but this would be the very last update needed for the software.

    There is absolutely no way I am going to use YNAB not because I find it too expensive but for me it is the wrong subscription model. I am willing to support the developers of the software I am using but it need to satisfy the cost-benefit ratio.
    Just an example: YNAB is  a tool that helps me organize my finances but does not save me any money. It just makes it a lot easier to keep an overview on all the money. Yet it would be almost $90 a year. In comparison: Jetbrains offers programming tools I have to use at work and that are essential to earn my money in the first place. However I do only pay $90 for it.
    For me it feels like I have to pay the same money for a smaller, far less significant tool.

    About the subscription model: Just take a look at the model Jetbrains introduced for their programming software. Instead of having to pay to USE the software, you are paying Jetbrains to be able to UPGRADE the software. Let's say you paid $90 for version 2.0 and your subscription ends after one year. You are still able to use the software as long as you want! But you stay at version 2.0 until you pay again to upgrade to version 3.0 or whatever new version is available.

    This is actually a subscription model I do understand and support because upgrades are work that developers have done. For YNAB? I would have to pay you until eternity and you could just sit back and relax because I have to pay you anyway no matter what you are doing. This is a business practice I will not support.

    You have lost a loyal user and potential long-term customer.

    Reply Like 1
    • Kovah Sadly, I must second this distaste for the nYNAB model. I have attempted to get on board with nYNAB and swallow my pride at the cost of the subscription service ( which, like many, I find wholly failing from a Cost:Benefit ratio)

      I have come here to remind YNAB (Looking at you Jesse) that businesses rise and fall based on keeping their customers happy. Perhaps, you'll never notice the number of people who are displeased with your decisions, but when HS takes over, I will be forced to find another means of budgeting, and if that means digging out my spreadsheets so be it.

      Reply Like
  • I totally agree with Steel Blue Sound.  I have always purchased the classic YNAB from the very beginning of YNAB startup.  I believed that if I invested in the company there would be a loyalty to customers.  Now with the monthly subscription and the disinterest in long term loyal customers I can see where I have become disposable to YNAB, and the lack of support for Classic offline YNAB.  How sad to see what the company has become.

    Reply Like
  • Hi everyone,

    We understand this is a sore subject and we're sorry that Apple's decision to no longer support the app has left you feeling under valued. We still appreciate and care about our YNAB 4 users and the program itself will work for as long as your computer supports it. 

    Official support for YNAB 4 ended in 2017. We still answer any and all questions we can because we're here to help and we want the program to work for you! Even after official support ended, our developers still released an update to keep YNAB 4 compatible with Dropbox. However, the conversion from 32-bit to 64-bit is too large of an update for a program that we no longer support.

    There are workarounds for this issue. A user mentioned running a Windows simulator on their Mac in order to continue using the program, since Apple is the only one phasing out 32-bit programs.

    We understand this is an inconvenience and we also understand the new YNAB isn't for everyone. We wanted YNAB 4 to work well into the distant future, and it still should for the Windows OS, but Apple's decision to no longer support certain apps has created a hurdle too large for YNAB 4.

    Reply Like
    • briefcase
    • A rack of ties, a travel mug, telephone, briefcase filled with papers
    • briefcase
    • 9 mths ago
    • 2
    • Reported - view
    Faness said:
    We understand this is an inconvenience and we also understand the new YNAB isn't for everyone. We wanted YNAB 4 to work well into the distant future, and it still should for the Windows OS, but Apple's decision to no longer support certain apps has created a hurdle too large for YNAB 4.

     Are there any plans in the works to make it more "for everyone?"  YNAB4 brought a lot of value for its $60 price tag.  For the subscription of the current software, it ought to at least provide features that power users of YNAB find valuable.  While there are a lot of good features in the web version, the problems and lack of certain features that still exist now 2.5 years into the life of product presents a level of frustration in a lot of users that could frankly be avoided altogether.

    Reply Like 2
    • Hi briefcase !

      When you say "for everyone" are there any specific features you're looking for? We're always taking feedback, which you can submit directly to our development team through our Feature Request form, but we're happy to answer questions about anything you'd like to know in particular! :)

      Also, I'm happy to announce that Apple decided to extend their support of 32-bit apps. They stated this year's update would continue to support 32-bit apps, but models released in 2019 would not. While this isn't a solution for some, it does buy a bit more time! 
       

      Reply Like
      • briefcase
      • A rack of ties, a travel mug, telephone, briefcase filled with papers
      • briefcase
      • 8 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness I mean I think that there are users here who have done a fantastic job of advocating for features that would bring value not only to them but to other users of YNAB who manage to get ahead.  My point is that in your quote you said that you're aware that the new YNAB isn't "for everyone."  Why not?  Shouldn't the goal of the product be to be "for everyone?"  Shouldn't the software strive to bring value not only to new users who are struggling to get ahead but also to those who have already gotten ahead?  It seems short sighted to produce a product catered to only a few demographics at the expense of others - especially the ones that have helped get YNAB off the ground for years by buying the software, and who as a result have money to spend on the subscription (hello?  we have money and buy things, we just want our favorite features).

       

      Specifically, we need some way to automate the budgeting process.  Income for next month was great, but it doesn't have to be that.  There just needs to be some way to automate living one or more months ahead.  We also need stealing from the future to be addressed in some way.

       

      To be clear, I use the web version and have been patiently waiting for someone there to come around and realize it was a mistake to make some of the changes to the software.  It was essentially throwing the baby out with the bath water.

      Reply Like
    • briefcase 

      Thank you for explaining and sorry I missed your point initially. We want the new YNAB to be for everyone, but we understand that's unrealistic. That statement was for users who have made it clear they don't want to use the new YNAB, for whatever the reason may be (subscription based model, lack of red arrow, issues with direct import, etc.) and we don't want to push that issue. While we understand why certain users want certain things, they don't necessarily align with our outlook and that's okay! If we can better serve you through YNAB 4, we're happy to do so! 

      Outside of the few things we're set in concrete on, we do take feedback very seriously! I'm happy to say we're currently working on a fix for Stealing From The Future - a large part of that is because of the outpouring we received here in the forum. You made it apparent it's an issue, we agree it needs to be improved and we're working on doing just that!

      As for the automation, do you have any suggestions in particular? The combination of being able to move forward to next month and use the Quick Budget options was a quick way to budget those funds. However, users who wanted more of a 'Funds for Next Month' option created categories just for that. If there's another method or approach you'd like to see, we'd love to hear about it!

      Reply Like
      • briefcase
      • A rack of ties, a travel mug, telephone, briefcase filled with papers
      • briefcase
      • 8 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Faness What I envision would be something like the move money tool functionality that exists already, but instead of moving it to a category it moves it to the future and resets the current month's TBB to a corresponding 0 value.  Eg, you get a paycheck, and somewhere in the header you have the option of moving the money to the future and not even seeing it in the current month, thereby making TBB 0 again in the current month and giving the user a valid platform to budget to 0 against.

       

      Then, once it comes time to budget for the next month, you just budget whatever money you'd sent forward to 0 and the cycle continues.  Users should also have the option of sending any money in that pool to the future as well, for the use case of people who get paid quarterly or receive some kind of income from investments.  The fluidity of TBB isn't really the problem, it's that 0 must always equal 0 and it should allow for user discretion as to what funds are available in any given month to budget against.  Currently, it really doesn't enforce that, so the look and feel of TBB ends up being less than concrete when the concept of 0 is itself unyielding.

       

      I have never been a fan of making a holding category.  It just adds bulk to the budget screen in order to compensate for something that I was already able to do.  Every time you see it, it's a "oh yeah that category exists so I can get around this one thing that's really frustrating" scenario.  It's a constant reminder that the software isn't what you want.  And who wants that?  No one.  That's a classic user experience design flaw.  You don't want anything in a user's face that constantly frustrates them.

      Reply Like 1
    • briefcase If the honesty of TBB is the main issue here, we're hoping to solve that in the near future! Our development team is working on ironing out the Stealing From The Future problem. The new YNAB is meant to be more fluid, so you can easily move to any month and budget your funds there. Users in the forum have referred to this as lacking "walled" months. The new YNAB doesn't have walled months, and creating a category for future months is a way to manually create those walls. I understand your point here and appreciate you sharing! I'm hoping you'll like the changes we have in store! :)

      Reply Like
    • Agent99
    • Working to Get Smart at budgeting, finances and life
    • Agent99.1
    • 8 mths ago
    • Reported - view

    By the way, this question has not been fully answered and should not be marked as such.  

    Yes, one could create a partition on their Mac with Windows, although I imagine at some point even Windows will upgrade such to have issues with 32-bit apps.

    But there needs to be a way to access YNAB via desktop.  I thought that was supposed to be part of the nYNAB feature set??????

    Reply Like
    • Hi Agent99 !

      This particular forum thread was asking if YNAB 4 is a 32-bit app, which it is and we have no intentions to change it to a 64-bit app.

      The new YNAB is a web based program that can be accessed from any computer with internet access. There's no need to update the new YNAB as we continuously push updates and plan to do so for a long time to come. :)

      Reply Like
  • After purchasing YNAB 4 for Mac a few years ago, and using it some and then not, I was inspired to come back start using it again (thank you WireCuter).  Come to find out that you've not only moved to a subscription only model, but now only support a web model - no longer supporting a native app.

    I hate, but can understand, the subscription model.

    But web only?  Deal breaker for me.  If you supported the YNAB 4 on the Mac and moved it to 64-bit (cause Mojave will kill 32-bit apps), I might continue using it.

    But I will not post all my financial data on your website.  I don't care how well you *think* you have it protected.  We know, from all the compromised systems out there, that it's probably not enough.

    Not letting me manage and keep control of my data, particularly for a budgeting program (you're not a bank) is, I think, a bad business decision, at least for the customer.  I'm forced to give up enough of my data - not for this.  For those that want you to have their data - no problem.  But don't turn away those of us that want to use your fantastic system but want to keep control of our data.  Not when you were able to do it before!

    I think you have a great program, and if you ever decide to support again allowing your customers to manage and keep control of their own data, let me know...

    Reply Like 2
      • chahan
      • chahan
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Steel Blue Beat There is no requirement to connect to any of your bank accounts for direct import. You can do manual entry for everything, and I actually prefer it that way. If you are not connecting through direct import, there are no bank login credentials to be compromised. 

      Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      chahan There is still significant Personally Identifiable Information available in your account registers that could be used to steal your identity, it just takes more work than having someone's bank info.

      Reply Like
      • JoeDid
      • Remember: It is To Laugh
      • Purple_rain
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      jenmas Can you expand on this a bit? I've been concerned about security from the start. I don't have any accounts linked for that reason. The email address I use for YNAB isn't used for any of my accounts; none of my account names are real bank or credit card company names.

      I think I have my ID pretty well disguised, but I'm open to learning where there may be holes. Thanks.

      Reply Like
      • jenmas
      • jenmas
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      JoeDid Anyone looking at my account registers can learn a lot about me by looking at the things I buy. It's not quite as detailed as going through your garbage to look at your detailed receipts to see exactly what you buy from Target or the grocery store, but it's not being anonymous. My account registers will tell you what services I subscribe to, where I shop, and give you a ballpark on what kind of property I own. I do 100% manual entry and have never connected my YNAB account to any of my financial institutions. Many of my account names are vaguely named, but for organizational purposes I do have to be explicit on some of it (I have multiple Visa cards for example that need some naming)

      Now, is this high on my list of things I worry about? No. While the information is there to construct a pretty accurate profile of me, it's more work than reeling in credit card numbers and SSNs with a phishing scam. I have had to do work on public wifi in sketchy cafes all over the world. That is a far higher risk.

      Reply Like
  • hi

    i would like to continue using nab and have done so for 6 years but now i will be forced to go to webbed subscription which i feel uncomfortable with all the hacking going on in large corporations. i like to control my own data without the fear of someone at some point hacking your site. i supported your program and recommended it to friends 

    Reply Like
  • jenmas said:
    My account registers will tell you what services I subscribe to, where I shop, and give you a ballpark on what kind of property I own.

     I see your point in this respect, but none of this concerns me. No actual account/membership or other numbers are available from YNAB. I have freezes on all four credit companies and limit and distance alerts on my CCs. And since most of my purchases are done on line anyway, there are other ways to find the information. My YNAB register is probably the least useful.

    Reply Like 1
  • I agree, please create a 64 bit version of YNAB for the desktop.  I really don't want to have to stop using YNAB.  However, if you're trying to force me into using the web based version, you'll lose me as a customer.

    Reply Like
  • I also would like a 64-bit desktop option. In addition to the subscription price, another big issue for me is data ownership. Unlike the desktop versions, the subscription service keeps the data on the server. I would like to manage my own data - so this is a red line for me.

    As mentioned above, providing a 64-bit Desktop maintenance version, or possibly open-sourcing the project are potential options. Otherwise I'll probably look into creating my own spreadsheet going forward. It's about time I learned to use Excel properly anyway.

    Reply Like
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