I add a manual transaction and expect the balance to reflect the amount but it does not

Sorry, just signed up for YNAB and trying to use a feature that I really need and though is available. So I am starting for whatever balance is currently available in my checking account right now. Then I add a manual transaction, some expense that I expect to hit in a few days. I would expect that amount that is on the manual transaction to be deducted from the current balance and the new balance to be posted at the top of the page. But that does not happen. Probably I don't know how to use this tool. Can somebody help?

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  • Scheduled transactions won’t affect your balance until that date when they go live.

    Reply Like 2
  • You're not the only one that wants a future/committed transaction to impact category balances. As implemented, it's on you to remember that category balance doesn't provide realistic spending guidance for other decisions. (The common example is an Amazon Pantry order hitting a Grocery category next week, but you need to know how much you can spend on Groceries today without shooting yourself in the foot.)

    Alternatively, you can date the transaction for today, which doesn't provide a realistic account balance, but does facilitate good spending decisions for other transactions within that category. (For longer timelines, this approach can lead to failure to match if you import transactions.)

    Pick your poison.

    Oh, and you might consider making an official request (email is one way) to add future-dated transactions that immediately impact category/account balances. (This would be in addition to the currently implemented "scheduled" transaction that affects neither balance.) That way the user can make the choice for their particular needs.

    Reply Like 3
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui Or you could have a category for the Amazon Pantry spending and one for Groceries.

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats Well why don't we just have a category for every transaction then?! (says the one who has over 150 categories, but at some point we have to call it a day)

      Reply Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats I do appreciate the helpful suggestion, and yes, that's one of the the standard workarounds. The drawbacks being reports no longer have an accurate total for my Grocery spending and category bloat.

      Reply Like
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      bevocat because that would be ridiculous. 

      Reply Like
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui I guess you have choose which is more important to you then; peace of mind while spending, or good looking reports. 

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats Right, just like having separate categories for grocery spending just because they come from a different vendor would be ridiculous.

      Plenty of people just have a "Food" category and would find the various ways I slice and dice my food spending ridiculous, and they're not really wrong.

      Reply Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats I (and many others) want both! Long-term, YNAB needs to understand the "one size fits all" model... doesn't.

      The budget is an abstraction -- it's a plan. I want it to reflect my intentions at all times, and for all intents and purposes, that Pantry order money is gone. YNAB has bet the farm on "reality" and has lost sight of the fact that the abstraction is more useful than the absolute reality.

      When driving down the road, the REALITY is my speed is around 70,000 mph (108 kph), due to the earth's path around the sun. That's clearly not useful in my current situation, and 60 mph (100 kph) is a MUCH more useful number.

      When confronted with this, YNAB has said, "Yes, but what if you change your mind?" The simple answer is I will change the plan at that point so that it continues to reflect my (revised) intentions.

      YNAB (correctly) points out that doing what I want is effectively hiding money from myself. They had no response when I pointed out that is the ENTIRE POINT OF YNAB. When wondering how much I can spend on Clothing today, I HIDE 99.9% of the money I possess from myself, allowing myself to see only the tiny fraction I currently deem is OK to spend on Clothing. 

      Reply Like 6
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui Oh, I understand what you are saying, despite what some people might think, and I think you have a valid point. It would be great if YNAB worked that way, and who knows, maybe it will one day.

      But the REALITY is, right now it DOESN'T. 

      Hence my suggestion.

      Personally, I have never mixed scheduled transactions into open ended categories for the reasons brought up in this thread. 

      Reply Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 5 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats 

      Six Hats said:
      It would be great if YNAB worked that way, and who knows, maybe it will one day.
      But the REALITY is, right now it DOESN'T. 

       And the further reality is, it WON'T in the forseeable future.  This one thing is not a show stopper, though fixing this one would mean I could have a satisfactory workaround for all the other stupid things that would be no-brainers to fix.  However, YNAB as an organization has decided to dig in its heels and never admit that any aspect of program design was a mistake or could be improved.  So some of us need to complain, and lampoon the stupidity of this stance, and perhaps look for viable alternatives.

      Unfortunately, another reality is that viable alternatives to YNAB aren't particularly plentiful.  There are a couple of things I could make work, with even more effort than YNAB requires.  When one of them improves to be as little effort as YNAB, or YNAB degrades to be more effort than a viable alternative, the company will cease getting my subscription dollars. 

      Until then, I'll continue to hang out here and point out how things could be better.  I have no realistic expectation that my comments will make any difference whatsoever, other than possibly convincing a few other users to set their credit cards up as checking accounts or to do a workaround to budget a full month in one session.  And I expect that every time I convince a user to do one of those things, Support will pop in to say they recommend using the broken credit card functionality as designed, and they recommend budgeting every time you get paid, and they recommend budgeting piecemeal into the future . . . even on threads started to ask for alternatives to those things.

      Reply Like 1
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Patzer Focusing on the scheduled transaction issue. How would you see that working?

      Reply Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 5 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats

      Okay, focusing solely on the scheduled transaction issue:

      Ideally, the scheduled transactions should work just as they did in YNAB 4:  I would have the option of creating a scheduled transaction with a frequency of "once," which would work exactly like a single-instance scheduled transaction does today.  Or I would have the option of entering a transaction in the register with a future date, and having that transaction affect the category balance and register balance when I enter it.  If the future date happens to be in the next month (as in, my Water bill is due in June, but it's still May when I schedule payment for the due date), the category is not affected until the month it is scheduled for.

      It's not that scheduled transactions are bad; it's that future committed transactions are a different thing.  I want the budget to reflect the fact that the water bill has been paid, both in the account and in the category.  And I want the account balance to reflect all my committed outflows but none of my expected inflows.  That would represent the disaster case of no further income happens.

      In an apparent effort to keep fools from budgeting with income they have not yet received, YNAB has made it more difficult to manage my finances conservatively.  Inexplicably, YNAB also hides the information I want in the scheduler instead of putting it directly on the budget page that I'm looking at anyway.  In YNAB 4, I only had to look at the middle column (Activity) to check my memory as to whether I had already scheduled bills for payment.  And that's something I need even for categories that have only one transaction each month.

      To be clear, when I say "schedule payment" for a bill, I mean I go into my financial institution and tell it, "Pay $XX.XX to Vendor Y on Z Date."  Then it just happens on Z Date, unless I affirmatively do something to change it.  I ought to be able to enter this in YNAB in a way that not only reflects the commitment and the fact that the money is gone, but also does not require me to touch the transaction again on the date it happens.  As things are now, I have to approve each such transaction when it fires off.  If the transaction is a credit card payment, I have to approve it twice, once in each register. 

      Reply Like 4
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      I'd prefer to have the register hold "live" transactions that impact balances (category and account) -- including those that may be dated in the future. Use a separate area for scheduled transactions, which are in essence just reminders since they don't impact balances until their date arrives. The scheduled area would be resizable/collapsible. There should be a command in the Edit menu to promote from scheduled to live (keeping the future date) and vice versa.

      This was the interface in YNAB4, and it works extremely well. There is no confusion about recurrence (or not) which plagues the current product, since that can be shown directly in the list.

      Reply Like 4
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Patzer I've never used YNAB 4 so I can't comment on the way scheduled transactions in that version. I have been using nYNAB for nearly two years now and can honestly say I have not had any issues with the way the transactions work. All my bills have scheduled transactions set and I've never been short or over spent a category. I have made sure to keep schedule transactions out of open ended categories.

      Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 5 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats I agree with where you're coming from. I started in nYNAB too, and having used YNAB4 for this now, I can tell you that it's just so much easier and intuitive to have those future-dated transactions that you have entered into your register affect your working balance.

      Reply Like 1
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats How do you know whether a scheduled transaction has been "handled" in the real world (assume this means manually entered in your bank's bill pay service)? Or even whether the outflow amount is actually correct (rather than left over from the previous month)?

      Reply Like
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui My bills are all paid by direct debit. I've set up my scheduled transactions to match their dates and amounts. When the transaction fires off I know the bill is paid or will be within a day or two, depending what day the date falls on.

      Reply Like
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      bevocat In what way?

      Reply Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats Assuming the value changes from month to month, how do you know you've updated the amount in the scheduled transaction rather than it having the value left over from the previous month?

      Reply Like
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui My bills don't vary from month to month. 

      If I had a bill which varied every month then I wouldn't use a scheduled transaction in YNAB. For me scheduled transactions are for fixed transactions that happen on a regular schedule (weekly, monthly, yearly, whatever). 

      Reply Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats Not using a scheduled transaction sounds like a recipe for a missed payment or a requirement to track status outside of YNAB. (I'm in the US with its lack of consumer protections, so no way will I allow a company to pull from my account. Takes forever to rectify a "mistake".)

      At any rate, clearly there are differences in needed workflows to handle different requirements (e.g., push payments, variable bill amounts, intelligent cash-flow to maximize interest or avoid overdraft). Having YNAB work as some of us have described would facilitate those things that go beyond answering, "Can I afford this?" That question, of course, the budget ably answers. 

      Reply Like 1
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui How often did you miss payments before you started using YNAB?

      Reply Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats Rarely, but not never. The issue is I would have to log into my bank to verify something was setup when I thought/worried about it. Tedious. Or I had to track that in a to-do list, not necessarily a problem, but the fact of the matter I am using YNAB, so I'd prefer that information to be in YNAB.

      Reply Like 1
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui 

      To me YNAB is a glorified spreadsheet. A very useful glorified spreadsheet. But a spreadsheet nonetheless. I could put whatever transactions I like in YNAB and it would make no difference to the real world workings of my bill payments. I only use the scheduled transactions because it saves me having to enter them all each and every month.

      Reply Like
  • You would have to use today's date or earlier to get it to be deducted from your current account balance and category balance.

    Reply Like 1
  • Also relevant that you can see the balance after scheduled transactions hit in the inspector on both web and mobile. It requires you to know which categories have scheduled transactions, so it is less than ideal, but seems to be about as far as the company is actually willing to go on this one. 

    Reply Like 3
  • It always amazes me how people (YNAB in this case) can create complex application but leave out plain simple features. Is it me or this feature would be a MUST? I live paycheck to paycheck and I'm quoting here: "Nearly 80 percent of American workers (78 percent) say they're living paycheck to paycheck, according to a 2017 report by employment website CareerBuilder." Because of that I NEED TO KNOW that any future expense won't drive my account in overdraft. Sure, fancy budget planning may be fun for some people but my immediate concern is to keep my checking account in balance and I want a simple, convenient tool to do that.

    Reply Like 1
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 5 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Ivory Sun 

      It's worse than leaving a feature out.  Every budget and tracking software package I've ever seen has future transactions in the register, except new YNAB.  I conclude that YNAB affirmatively decided to expend programming resources to create this value-subtracted situation.  The argument is that you're supposed to live in the present, i.e. not enter future income.  But the effect is to make the workaround to budget conservatively more difficult than the fairly simple workaround that has been described to be able to budget before income is received.

      Reply Like 2
  • I feel your pain.  YNAB has stupidly decided all future dated transactions are scheduled and will not affect anything until the date they occur.  To add insult to injury, on that date you will be expected to approve the transaction that you presumably entered correctly.

    My workarounds:  Use Toolkit.  Turn on running balance so I can see the future account balance after the next instance of each scheduled transaction occurs.  Turn on "Show Upcoming Transaction Total" so I can see the total of scheduled transaction for this month on the budget page in small print, instead of having to click the inspector for each category.

    This is less useful than having real committed future transactions in the register, but it's better than the base YNAB package as implemented.

    Reply Like
      • WordTenor
      • Arranged the menu, the venue, the seating.
      • WordTenor
      • 5 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Patzer The thing that confuses me is why there is so much resistance to allowing the balance after scheduled to be the one that shows in the budget. More and more banks are offering accounts that give a “safe to spend” number taking into account things the account owner has scheduled (probably to encourage using the bank’s bill pay system/keeping credit cards with the same bank). The system I used before YNAB, PNC’s Virtual Wallet, did this in 2009. Now with the bleeping icons, it would be so easy to show a number that is after the scheduled transaction hits and use an icon to indicate that the category has scheduled transactions affecting the balance shown. 

      I get the desire to prevent future income, because while it’s true that people like the person in the other thread will find ways around it if they work hard, I think most Joe Schmoe new budgeters will be at least nudged toward the method when they realize that there’s no way to tell YNAB how much you’ll make in a month. The number of people otherwise who will just go “Okay, I put in my income and then put it in categories” I suspect is pretty high. I But given how quickly they responded to the desire to have the after scheduled number show up *somewhere* by putting it in the inspector, the fact that we’re still missing the option to have that number be the default category balance is bewildering. It would not break even their new idea about what the method should be. 

      Reply Like 4
    • WordTenor 

      The part that confuses me is why is YNAB considering (and testing, evidently? So actively considering) showing pending transactions in direct import.

      It seems to me that the motivation for that is the non-manual, much-more-complicated-and-wrought-with-errors-and-unintended-consequences-because-of-its-fluidity, desire for this parallel type of reactionary cash-flow projection.

      Why not figure out the manual version first?  The manual version of committed transactions would provide for people who actively engage with both their plan and she software... I don't use direct import, nor do I want to.  It will be galling, indeed, if their reactionary desire is met by showing pending transactions before the core functionally allows committed future transactions. 

      Reply Like 3
      • WordTenor
      • Arranged the menu, the venue, the seating.
      • WordTenor
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life I actually have the pending transaction test in my budget and have been duly upbraided by support for not mincing words in pointing out its utter lack of utility. 

      Currently, the pending transactions do absolutely nothing except show up. There’s no way to approve them so that they affect the budget categories, there’s no way to change the amount if the capture for example didn’t include a tip.  So in that way, they don’t actually contradict any of the policy that the lack of scheduled transactions seems to indicate. At the same time, this makes them totally useless...if you want the transaction to affect your budget category before it clears (best practice), you have to enter it in manually anyway.  The only thing that their existence accomplishes is eliminating the need to go to your bank’s website to see any pending transactions you may have forgotten to enter.  You still have to enter them. 

      Reply Like
    • WordTenor I'm about to start a project in which I will try valiantly to refrain from using the words "why give resources to features that don't help, when there are other features that would help," or the like.  My gut feeling is that such a sentence will cause the entire message to be cast aside.

      Now someone knows.  Let's see if I can do it.  Maybe it will even be done today.  Who knows?  There are probably other things I should do with my time, but once I'm thinking of something, I have a hard time moving that mental inertia somewhere else until there's closure.  *End ramble*

      Reply Like 1
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 5 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      WordTenor 

      WordTenor said:
      But given how quickly they responded to the desire to have the after scheduled number show up *somewhere* by putting it in the inspector, the fact that we’re still missing the option to have that number be the default category balance is bewildering. It would not break even their new idea about what the method should be. 

       I was thinking about the "look in the inspector" theme of response recently.  I coded CSS to get rid of goal nags, and then noticed that they still showed up in the inspector.  I thought about that, and left them there.  Perhaps some time in the unforeseeable future, I might want to see where I stand versus a goal.  If so, that information will be waiting for me in the inspector.

      IMO, YNAB has it backwards.  I need to see the category balances less committed transactions every time I make a spending decision.  That information should be on the budget page, preferably embedded in the category balances I can also see on the app.  OTOH, I only need to see my status versus goals when I budget.  Even if I followed YNAB's guidance to budget every time I have income, that would only be 4 days in a month.  Those 4 days, I could look in the inspector one category at a time.  The rest of the time, the goal nags wouldn't be drawing my attention to something that isn't actionable for over 85% of the month.

      Oh, well.  I have my workarounds.  I'm investigating how to meet my budget needs entirely without YNAB.  If things go far enough south, I can stop paying the subscription.

      Reply Like 1
      • WordTenor
      • Arranged the menu, the venue, the seating.
      • WordTenor
      • 5 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Patzer In the various responses I’ve seen to this issue over the years, it has become apparent that the idea that someone would consult the category balance before spending is now something which support finds strange. 

      Reply Like 4
      • Anarane
      • Anarane
      • 5 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Patzer I have to admit that I wouldn't want scheduled transactions affecting my budget balance - I want my budget figure to match what's in my account right now (although I have running balance via the Toolkit to look into the future and see what will happen when my future transactions do hit, so I suppose I have the best of both worlds!) - but the issue here is the lack of options. We shouldn't have to fight over binary, mandatory settings; instead, it should be a menu of choices that let users decide and customise if they want future transactions to show ahead of their due date or not. The lack of choice is disappointing, and the more time I spend here, the more I feel as though we can put in request features until we're blue in the face. We just get the same old lip-service cut-and-paste replies regardless...

      Reply Like 2
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 5 mths ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Anarane 

      We are in agreement.  I want my scheduled bill payments to be future transactions affecting the register and category as soon as I enter them.  I want my scheduled income transactions to be scheduled transactions that don't affect the budget until the date they fire off.  That's conservative finance.  But YNAB insists that future transactions are only used for what I don't want them for, and thus forbids them.

      Had a long thread with Support about this, and they kept suggesting possible features to warn me if I had a problem caused by lack of awareness.  Um, no.  I want awareness so the problem doesn't happen in the first place.

      Reply Like 4
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      WordTenor Let's hope they finish the feature then. It's imperative that they add the ability to approve them individually. I'd welcome that feature. Well, I guess imperative is too strong of a word. If I have to, I'd retype the ones I want myself. But that would be silly and an incomplete feature, right? RIGHT?!

      Reply Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Superbone When much of the target market doesn't understand the difference between clear and pending transactions in the first place, I foresee much confusion arising from this "feature". It will import when it clears anyway, so at best you're saving, what, a day with this "reminder"?

      Realistically, that's all it is -- a reminder that you might or might not should pay attention to. I say don't bother me with reminders that I shouldn't pay attention to.

      Reply Like 2
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui A day quicker for those of us that don't enter every single transaction as it happens is kind of a big deal. The more responsive, the better. Sure, for me personally, I could (currently do) live without it. But, if they're going to add the feature, why not do it right? 😐

      Reply Like
      • Anarane
      • Anarane
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Patzer Ah - sorry! Makes sense now! :)

      Reply Like
  • Hi Ivory Sun ! Welcome to You Need A Budget!

    We want you to have 100% accurate and honest feedback about right now. With that in mind, scheduled transactions won’t impact your budget until the date they are scheduled.

    I understand the desire to look ahead and see if you have enough money to cover what's coming. That's important, and there are two tools built in that will help:

    1. If you don't have enough money to cover upcoming transactions in a category, you'll see a warning in the Inspector when you have that category selected. Here’s a quick video showing where you’ll find that warning.

    2. The other is goals. When you set a goal for a category and are short of it, you will see a warning in the Inspector.

    With both, you will also see a warning in your category’s Available column. If you need to budget more for what is coming up, the balance there will be yellow. It may be a bit of an adjustment if you are used to using future-dated transactions in your budget – we're here if you need help!

    If you'd like to see those handled differently, would you mind submitting a Feature Request? That form goes directly to our team so you can let them know what you’d like to see going forward. 😀

    Reply Like
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 5 mths ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Nicole  Still completely missing the point.

      Reply Like 5
    • Hi Herman !

      We understand why you'd like to see scheduled transactions handled differently, but they're currently not designed that way in YNAB. The features mentioned above offer some help, but the best way to bring this request to our development team for further consideration is through our Feature Request form or to email us at [email protected] (for those who don't like the form :) )

      Reply Like
  • Nicole For some reason I see this happening often all around. People like to use complicated solutions for simple problems. Thanks for the 2 suggestions. They are complicated. And the problem is simple. I obviously don't have one checking account for each category. I only have ONE checking account and there is only ONE balance that I care about. And obviously I don't want to wait until the scheduled date to find out that I did not have enough money in that one account. Simple problem. Complicated (really I won't take the pain to use them) solutions. When it would be so simple to add one field on the screen that shows the balance that reflects all transactions, past and scheduled. Are all your programmers on vacation?

    Reply Like 2
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Ivory Sun As I understand it you want to know how much money needs to be in your checking account to cover your scheduled transactions for the month.  Am I reading that right?

      Reply Like
      • Ivory Sun
      • Ivory_Sun.4
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats Yest that is right. I can understand how those who have always enough money in their checking account may find this concern pitiful but unfortunately those people are the minority. Sad state of affairs for this rich country! It is not that people don't work hard. They do! But the benefits are reaped by others.

      Reply Like
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 5 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Ivory Sun If you're concerned about it from an account perspective then using the Toolkit to add a running balance will do what you want provided you set up the transactions as scheduled transactions.

      Reply Like 1
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 5 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Ivory Sun This is a common issue no matter how well off you are. I'd rather keep excess funds in higher interest savings accounts than in my checking account. Attached is an example. As you can see, the running balance shows me that I will be $700 short in my checking account when my mortgage payment hits on 6/17. I would see that I need to transfer at least $700 from my Savings account to Checking before this date so that I don't overdraft.

      Reply Like 1
    • Superbone Wouldn't it be cool if, as you were out shopping, you could take a look at your $400 clothing category balance and know that $350 has been spoken for?  Such information could greatly reduce the risk of buying a $100 pair of shoes (but we had it in the budget!!!) that would result having to WAM $50 from the oil change category.  More financial awareness.

      Please, help me find the words that puts this in line with YNAB's method.  It seems so obvious to me.  All I can think of are examples, not a specific rule.  Rule #1 applied within categories?

      Reply Like
      • monkeyhanger
      • No animals were harmed
      • monkeyhanger.1
      • 5 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life yes, that's been asked for many times. Different issue and one that is currently addressed in the inspector but not in the budget numbers themselves. 

      Reply Like 1
    • monkeyhanger Ah, you're right.  I do use the Toolkit, so I didn't automatically think of the need for the running balance for this issue (because I have it).  I was thinking of categories, not accounts.

      Reply Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Move Light Sound Life Yep, there's a separate big thread on that issue too. For now, you'd have to notice that the category color is not green and touch it to find out why and how much is available.

      Reply Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 5 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Superbone Move Light Sound Life

      Superbone said:
      Yep, there's a separate big thread on that issue too. For now, you'd have to notice that the category color is not green and touch it to find out why and how much is available.

       Actually, if the category has $400 and there's $350 of scheduled transactions upcoming, it doesn't even turn orange and won't turn orange and display the calendar icon until after you spend $50.01 to make it insufficient.  You just don't know unless you look in the inspector for your spending decision.  Or have Toolkit display the total of scheduled transactions in small print on the budget page.  Neither of which helps if you're relying on the app for spending decisions when you're out and about.

      In the other thread, Support kept refusing to consider allowing future outflows to affect the category or account, and kept asking if implementing this, that, or the other warning after a problem already exists would meet the need.  The idea that I might want information to avoid a problem in the first place instead of a warning after I've created a problem seemed foreign to Support.

      Ironically enough, this week I got the intro email over Todd's signature that talks about complexity is bad and simple solutions are better.  Too bad YNAB doesn't live by that spirit with respect to future transactions.

      Oh, well.  I have my workarounds, which are sufficient primarily because I don't have very many future committed transactions.  But I still get annoyed every time I have to take 3 steps to get a number that ought to be clearly displayed on the screen I'm looking at, and every time I have to approve a transaction that I should have been done touching when I manually entered it.

      Reply Like 2
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Patzer Then that's a big design flaw. You need to know at the time of purchase whether you have any future transactions affecting a particular category balance. The phone app needs to communicate that in some fashion or that's a recipe for disaster. I thought the whole idea was awareness before making a purchase?

      Faness What is the YNAB taught way for knowing this information using the phone app when out and about before making a purchase?

      Reply Like
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Superbone 

      Okay, you made me look.  If I know that a green category has a scheduled transaction, tap the category, then tap "Details," I can get a screen in the phone app that shows what I need to know.  But I have to know to do a 2 tap exercise to hunt it up; the information isn't on the screen I'm normally looking at when making a purchase decision.  And if I'm somewhere spending from 2 or 3 categories, that's potentially multiple 2 tap exercises.  It would be best if I have a pen and paper along to write down the answer from one screen before I navigate to another screen that has a different piece of information I need. 

      Clarification of information, this isn't.  But here's a sample of the screen.  (This particular category is a utility, because that's where I happen to have an outstanding scheduled transaction right now.)

      Reply Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Patzer Thanks for the clarification. No visual indication when looking at a category that a purchase now will put a future scheduled purchase in jeopardy without touching each category two more times. That's an awful interface design. Not to mention the two more touches to get back out to the main budget. (Well, I guess I just did mention it.)

      Reply Like
    • Hi Superbone !

      Patzer is right - the Details screen offers details for upcoming transactions in a specific category. I understand this information isn't available at first glance (two taps into the category, instead), and asked if having a warning on the main budget page would be better. We want YNAB to reflect current account balances, which is why Available balances aren't affected by future transactions, but I asked in hopes of finding a happy medium for a Feature Request. :)

      Reply Like
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Faness Are you asking if having a warning on the main budget page would be better? If so, that's an easy "yes." All known information should be used to alert the user of any potential issues. Without a warning on the budget page, no categories can be trusted without first touching the category amount available and then the again on the information screen to see if there are other planned purchases in this category. This is UX 101 stuff. At least with a warning, one knows they need to dig in further.

      Reply Like
    • Superbone Thank you for weighing in! This is currently the same with the web app, except the Inspector appears on the right hand side of the screen when a category is clicked. There isn't enough screen space for the full inspector in the mobile app, but we're always looking for ways to improve.

      Reply Like
      • WordTenor
      • Arranged the menu, the venue, the seating.
      • WordTenor
      • 5 mths ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Superbone The official answer is and forever will be, “You have to just *know* you need to look at the inspector for that category, and then you’ll be able to get the information.” Faness this would be a brilliant use of the icons. And yes, I already submitted that one. 

      As I said above, the idea that someone would rely on the budget to make spending decisions seems to now be a foreign concept. What really baffles me is that a “safe to spend” number is now stock on just about any checking account app ever.

      Reply Like 5
      • Superbone
      • YNAB convert since 2008
      • Superbone
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      WordTenor Yes, this is a serious design flaw. The budget is supposed to inform all spending decisions. The information is there but it is not being communicated to the user lacking ESP. There needs to be a warning color and like you said, this would be a good case for an icon to communicate the issue.

      At least the toolkit warns you in the web app of upcoming transactions in that category.

      Reply Like
      • Six Hats
      • monkeychicken
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Ivory Sun I can explain what I do, maybe it will be of use to you. I'll be honest, I haven't read the rest of this thread. 

      I have two bank accounts; one current account and one savings account. The vast majority of my spending goes on my credit card for the points.

      I get paid once a month and everything goes into next month. When I'm finished budgeting, I select every category that I think I will need for the newly budgeted month.  This shows me a figure under total available in the inspector on the web app.

      I check that number against my current account balance. I like to leave a little cushion in there above the amount needed just in case. I then move any excess to the savings account.

      I've been using YNAB for nearly two years now and never had to move money back from the savings account.

      Hope this helps.

      Reply Like
      • nolesrule
      • YNAB4 Evangelist
      • nolesrule
      • 5 mths ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Superbone WordTenor I would prefer to see the actual number rather than yet another warning that I need to dig deeper. I want my category balance to be all I need to look at to make a spending decision.

      Reply Like 5
      • Patzer
      • Retired at age 60. Thank you, YNAB!
      • Patzer
      • 5 mths ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      Faness 

      When you wrote, "Patzer is right," I don't think you understood what I was saying.  Yes, I described the dumb thing that YNAB expects us to do.  The implications are:

      First, YNAB believes its users are so incredibly clever that we can all remember which categories have future committed transactions that ought to affect the budget and do a two-tap procedure to find the available category information needed for spending decisions.

      Second, at the same time YNAB believes its users are so incredibly stupid that we can't be trusted to decide which future transactions are really committed transactions and ought to be reflected in the category balances on the budget screen as well as the ending balance (not current balance, but ending balance) of the accounts.

      It is very difficult to reconcile this schizophrenic view of what YNAB users are like.  It is insulting to get emails that go out over Todd's name or even Jesse's name extolling the virtues of simplicity when the program is designed to make things that ought to be very simple incredibly complex.

      Reply Like 6
      • WordTenor
      • Arranged the menu, the venue, the seating.
      • WordTenor
      • 5 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      nolesrule Sure, me, too. I thought for sure that’s where things were headed when they introduced the number in the inspector. But the icon would be such a simple solution that would be at least partially internally consistent with the kinds of things they’re building. 

      Reply Like 2
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      +1... I need a consistent place to look for spending guidance, and it needs to be at a glance. 

      Reply Like 3
    • Patzer I was only referring to your guidance on where that information is located in the mobile app. I'm sorry the current design comes across that way to you, it isn't meant to be insulting. While I prefer the current set up of my Available balances reflecting my current account balances, I understand why you prefer them not to and like WordTenor's idea of using icons to reflect categories with upcoming transactions.

      Reply Like
  • Simple solution: http://toolkitforynab.com/

    Reply Like 3
  • Faness said:
    I asked in hopes of finding a happy medium

    The happy medium is to allow the user to decide when a future-dated transaction should or should not affect category & account balances. Only we will know how "committed" those funds really are, and in truth, BOTH use cases need to be present.

    I continued to be baffled why YNAB thinks a reactive approach is better than the proactive on this topic. After all, the entire premise of YNAB is to proactively plan your spending so you don't accidentally use funds that you need for a later purchase.

    I get that YNAB is worried someone will enter an inflow before receipt so they can intentionally violate Rule 1. Surely you realize this is trivially circumvented (e.g., use the current date), so this insistence only hurts those who are actually trying to use YNAB responsibly.

    Reply Like 5
      • Herman
      • herman
      • 5 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      dakinemaui Has ynab actually ever said the reason is to prevent the inflows?  I've only read the ridiculous "this is reflecting reality"  argument.   I think the real reason is they designed the whole interface around date and got rid of the scheduler and just use the date to trigger the scheduled/entered status of a transaction.  And now they don't wan't to or know how to change it.

      Reply Like
      • dakinemaui
      • dakinemaui
      • 5 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Herman I'm not certain if they've ever publicly stated stated that. However, I am certain that is a concern given the manner in which users have used the previous versions and the numerous threads asking to be able to do exactly that. My feeling is preventing this is not the only reason but is a contributing cause (in spite of the obvious ineffectiveness).

      Reply Like 2
  • bevocat said:
    Well why don't we just have a category for every transaction then?!

    This is a ridiculous statement and added nothing to the discussion.

    I was suggesting separating the scheduled transactions into a category of their own so that it removes the need to second guess the grocery category balance. 

    Reply Like
      • bevocat
      • Sometimes, It Just Sucks to Be You
      • bevocat
      • 5 mths ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Six Hats Thank you for your opinion. I'm certain that other people were able to read between the lines and see my point even if you weren't.

      Reply Like 2
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